1st year major market Corp - Consistently doing shitty job Forum

[dailygrind]

More like onanistic

And here we have the masterpiece Monanista, created by the late 21st century artist SBL.

It's really kind of a Jackson Pollock ripoff.

Later scholars have documented that SBL was something of a jerkoff.

[masque du pantsu]

OP, are you able to give us any examples as to what sort of things you're screwing up? Based on your general descriptions I'm still not sure I know what you're talking about. Is it like, you're drafting what the mid-level thinks is a relatively simple ancillary doc and you leave in a whereas clause that clearly doesn't apply to your deal? Or like you mess up the party names in a manner that suggests that you don't understand the structure rather than just not having attention to detail? I understand that some people get all worked up over typos (I don't) but based on the reactions you're describing, it seems it must be more than that.

Also, yes you should lateral, but think of it as an opportunity rather than a burden: you get to start over, using the lessons you learned in your current position to make the sort of first impression you wish you could have made the first time. Long term, unless your plan is just to milk the system as long as you can before they shove you out, I don't see why you wouldn't want to start over.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if the issues you're describing are a result of boredom. Most people struggle to pay attention, take care of details, and understand mildly complex issues when they are bored. Some people are able to fight through boredom better than others. But a lot of people can't do decent work if they can't get interested in their work.

Not OP, but it's not only that the work is boring, but also that OP probably came into the firm with little to no understanding of how to do the work. In corp you're dependent on others teaching you so luck can pay dividends.

[Tls2016]

Hello,

TLS has helped me throughout the LSAT, law school, OCI process and helped me thrive along the way. I am currently in a V50 in a major market doing corporate work. I started a few months ago and I had a meeting today with someone who helps coordinate the assignments and an additional HR person who basically told me they wanted to touch on some criticisms they have been hearing from people I have been working with so i can work on them before my actual review comes up. Many of the critiques i can and will fix (respond faster to emails) but generally it seems some? all? a few? of the people i have been working with (midlevels) are unhappy with my work. They think i am either incompetent, or just ignore directions while I am trying my best and just struggling to figure out what to do. This one mid level I was just working with I believe got so fed up with me that they requested a different first year to work with

1. I am scared that I will get fired soon

2. Any advice on how not to just suck at my job? it really really sucks having no idea whats flying. Ive done fairly well at most jobs in my life and succeeded at good schools so its hard for me to think I'm just a moron, but I am starting to think that.

3. Overall advice?

4. anyone hear of a first year getting fired for poor performance, not egregiously bad, before?

1. My bet is you're getting a warning if not fired at your review. I have never heard of a first year getting a warning like this within a few months of starting. Were you a summer at this firm? If so, how were your reviews. Did you come in with a black mark against you for poor work product? You don't seem to understand how bad of a position you are in.

2. Why weren't you responding in a timely manner? How do you get party names wrong? You have been doing a poor job. At the very least a first year should be responsive and not make obvious errors.

I'm not sure how to tell you to improve. Honestly, your ship has sailed at this firm and you need to start looking. Maybe find a book for paralegals or a book on practice and read it. Maybe get some CLE materials about structuring deals or whatever you don't understand. At least show up with the attitude that you care about your work product.

3. I'm not sure you can hack biglaw. You seem over your head even when you have little responsibility. I don't know how to fix that.

4. Yes, first years get fired. What you have done seems egregiously bad to me. I can't recall anyone getting the parties wrong in a document. It just screams that you don't care or are incompetent.

[Anonymous User]

Hello,

TLS has helped me throughout the LSAT, law school, OCI process and helped me thrive along the way. I am currently in a V50 in a major market doing corporate work. I started a few months ago and I had a meeting today with someone who helps coordinate the assignments and an additional HR person who basically told me they wanted to touch on some criticisms they have been hearing from people I have been working with so i can work on them before my actual review comes up. Many of the critiques i can and will fix (respond faster to emails) but generally it seems some? all? a few? of the people i have been working with (midlevels) are unhappy with my work. They think i am either incompetent, or just ignore directions while I am trying my best and just struggling to figure out what to do. This one mid level I was just working with I believe got so fed up with me that they requested a different first year to work with

1. I am scared that I will get fired soon

2. Any advice on how not to just suck at my job? it really really sucks having no idea whats flying. Ive done fairly well at most jobs in my life and succeeded at good schools so its hard for me to think I'm just a moron, but I am starting to think that.

3. Overall advice?

4. anyone hear of a first year getting fired for poor performance, not egregiously bad, before?

1. My bet is your getting a warning if not fired at your review. I have never heard of a first year getting a warning like this within a few months of starting. Were you a summer at this firm? If so, how were your reviews. Did you come in with a black mark against you for poor work product? You don't seem to understand how bad of a position you are in.

2. Why weren't you responding in a timely manner? How do you get party names wrong? You have been doing a poor job. At the very least a first year should be responsive and not make obvious errors.

I'm not sure how to tell you to improve. Honestly, your ship has sailed at this firm and you need to start looking. Maybe find a book for paralegals or a book on practice and read it. Maybe get some CLE materials about structuring deals or whatever you don't understand. At least show up with the attitude that you care about your work product.

3. I'm not sure you can hack biglaw. You seem over your head even when you have little responsibility. I don't know how to fix that.

4. Yes, first years get fired. What you have done seems egregiously bad to me. I can't recall anyone getting the parties wrong in a document. It just screams that you don't care or are incompetent.

On the other hand, why take up the time of 2 people if OP was done for? Why not just give them their 3 months at the review? The main thing OP can do is simply not screw up any more assignments. Don't press send until you know (don't think) but know it's perfect. The worst that can happen is the billing partner crosses off some more hours.

[Tls2016]

Hello,

TLS has helped me throughout the LSAT, law school, OCI process and helped me thrive along the way. I am currently in a V50 in a major market doing corporate work. I started a few months ago and I had a meeting today with someone who helps coordinate the assignments and an additional HR person who basically told me they wanted to touch on some criticisms they have been hearing from people I have been working with so i can work on them before my actual review comes up. Many of the critiques i can and will fix (respond faster to emails) but generally it seems some? all? a few? of the people i have been working with (midlevels) are unhappy with my work. They think i am either incompetent, or just ignore directions while I am trying my best and just struggling to figure out what to do. This one mid level I was just working with I believe got so fed up with me that they requested a different first year to work with

1. I am scared that I will get fired soon

2. Any advice on how not to just suck at my job? it really really sucks having no idea whats flying. Ive done fairly well at most jobs in my life and succeeded at good schools so its hard for me to think I'm just a moron, but I am starting to think that.

3. Overall advice?

4. anyone hear of a first year getting fired for poor performance, not egregiously bad, before?

1. My bet is your getting a warning if not fired at your review. I have never heard of a first year getting a warning like this within a few months of starting. Were you a summer at this firm? If so, how were your reviews. Did you come in with a black mark against you for poor work product? You don't seem to understand how bad of a position you are in.

2. Why weren't you responding in a timely manner? How do you get party names wrong? You have been doing a poor job. At the very least a first year should be responsive and not make obvious errors.

I'm not sure how to tell you to improve. Honestly, your ship has sailed at this firm and you need to start looking. Maybe find a book for paralegals or a book on practice and read it. Maybe get some CLE materials about structuring deals or whatever you don't understand. At least show up with the attitude that you care about your work product.

3. I'm not sure you can hack biglaw. You seem over your head even when you have little responsibility. I don't know how to fix that.

4. Yes, first years get fired. What you have done seems egregiously bad to me. I can't recall anyone getting the parties wrong in a document. It just screams that you don't care or are incompetent.

On the other hand, why take up the time of 2 people if OP was done for? Why not just give them their 3 months at the review? The main thing OP can do is simply take more time with each assignment instead of rushing to get them done. It's unlikely very many assignments need to be turned in, in 24 hours, and it's worth taking the extra 2 hours to make sure everything is correct. Even if the billing partner won't want to charge the client for 20 hours for something that should have taken 10, you still get credit for the 20 and the billing partner probably won't care that much. All that matters is you'd have done the assignment correctly.

If you're the type of person who is into risk assessment with this approach you may work on less deals, but you'll hit the same hours, and your odds of screwing up are much lower than if you rushed through 2 assignments instead of taking your time on one. Whenever you're not sure you did something right, take the time to double check it. All the other associates care about is whether you make their jobs more difficult, and if they need to redo your work then you make their jobs more difficult.

The reason they gave this review is because no one wants to work with OP now. OP seems clueless, even after this warning, as to how badly he is fucking up. He probably has gotten other feedback about his work directly from the people he worked with, but he downplayed it or ignored it. To have two different people refuse to work with you even at a very large firm is a problem.

This is just my guess because it's a unique situation. I think OP has missed previous comments about his work from the attorneys so they did this to try to get his attention and get him focused on moving himself out the door before they throw him out. They may also want him to get it together for the time he remains there. I don't know what OP can do about recommendations.

Also, OP is probably over estimating how good his work has been for partners. He seems to have had no real follow up from it. No meeting like this happens without the partners knowing about it.

[Anonymous User]

Hello,

TLS has helped me throughout the LSAT, law school, OCI process and helped me thrive along the way. I am currently in a V50 in a major market doing corporate work. I started a few months ago and I had a meeting today with someone who helps coordinate the assignments and an additional HR person who basically told me they wanted to touch on some criticisms they have been hearing from people I have been working with so i can work on them before my actual review comes up. Many of the critiques i can and will fix (respond faster to emails) but generally it seems some? all? a few? of the people i have been working with (midlevels) are unhappy with my work. They think i am either incompetent, or just ignore directions while I am trying my best and just struggling to figure out what to do. This one mid level I was just working with I believe got so fed up with me that they requested a different first year to work with

1. I am scared that I will get fired soon

2. Any advice on how not to just suck at my job? it really really sucks having no idea whats flying. Ive done fairly well at most jobs in my life and succeeded at good schools so its hard for me to think I'm just a moron, but I am starting to think that.

3. Overall advice?

4. anyone hear of a first year getting fired for poor performance, not egregiously bad, before?

1. My bet is your getting a warning if not fired at your review. I have never heard of a first year getting a warning like this within a few months of starting. Were you a summer at this firm? If so, how were your reviews. Did you come in with a black mark against you for poor work product? You don't seem to understand how bad of a position you are in.

2. Why weren't you responding in a timely manner? How do you get party names wrong? You have been doing a poor job. At the very least a first year should be responsive and not make obvious errors.

I'm not sure how to tell you to improve. Honestly, your ship has sailed at this firm and you need to start looking. Maybe find a book for paralegals or a book on practice and read it. Maybe get some CLE materials about structuring deals or whatever you don't understand. At least show up with the attitude that you care about your work product.

3. I'm not sure you can hack biglaw. You seem over your head even when you have little responsibility. I don't know how to fix that.

4. Yes, first years get fired. What you have done seems egregiously bad to me. I can't recall anyone getting the parties wrong in a document. It just screams that you don't care or are incompetent.

On the other hand, why take up the time of 2 people if OP was done for? Why not just give them their 3 months at the review? The main thing OP can do is simply take more time with each assignment instead of rushing to get them done. It's unlikely very many assignments need to be turned in, in 24 hours, and it's worth taking the extra 2 hours to make sure everything is correct. Even if the billing partner won't want to charge the client for 20 hours for something that should have taken 10, you still get credit for the 20 and the billing partner probably won't care that much. All that matters is you'd have done the assignment correctly.

If you're the type of person who is into risk assessment with this approach you may work on less deals, but you'll hit the same hours, and your odds of screwing up are much lower than if you rushed through 2 assignments instead of taking your time on one. Whenever you're not sure you did something right, take the time to double check it. All the other associates care about is whether you make their jobs more difficult, and if they need to redo your work then you make their jobs more difficult.

The reason they gave this review is because no one wants to work with OP now. OP seems clueless, even after this warning, as to how badly he is fucking up. He probably has gotten other feedback about his work directly from the people he worked with, but he downplayed it or ignored it. To have two different people refuse to work with you even at a very large firm is a problem.

This is just my guess because it's a unique situation. I think OP has missed previous comments about his work from the attorneys so they did this to try to get his attention and get him focused on moving himself out the door before they throw him out. They may also want him to get it together for the time he remains there. I don't know what OP can do about recommendations.

Also, OP is probably over estimating how good his work has been for partners. He seems to have had no real follow up from it. No meeting like this happens without the partners knowing about it.

Why are you so sure this meeting doesn't happen without partners knowing about it (outside of the ones on the deals OP got in trouble on)?

[Tls2016]

Hello,

TLS has helped me throughout the LSAT, law school, OCI process and helped me thrive along the way. I am currently in a V50 in a major market doing corporate work. I started a few months ago and I had a meeting today with someone who helps coordinate the assignments and an additional HR person who basically told me they wanted to touch on some criticisms they have been hearing from people I have been working with so i can work on them before my actual review comes up. Many of the critiques i can and will fix (respond faster to emails) but generally it seems some? all? a few? of the people i have been working with (midlevels) are unhappy with my work. They think i am either incompetent, or just ignore directions while I am trying my best and just struggling to figure out what to do. This one mid level I was just working with I believe got so fed up with me that they requested a different first year to work with

1. I am scared that I will get fired soon

2. Any advice on how not to just suck at my job? it really really sucks having no idea whats flying. Ive done fairly well at most jobs in my life and succeeded at good schools so its hard for me to think I'm just a moron, but I am starting to think that.

3. Overall advice?

4. anyone hear of a first year getting fired for poor performance, not egregiously bad, before?

1. My bet is your getting a warning if not fired at your review. I have never heard of a first year getting a warning like this within a few months of starting. Were you a summer at this firm? If so, how were your reviews. Did you come in with a black mark against you for poor work product? You don't seem to understand how bad of a position you are in.

2. Why weren't you responding in a timely manner? How do you get party names wrong? You have been doing a poor job. At the very least a first year should be responsive and not make obvious errors.

I'm not sure how to tell you to improve. Honestly, your ship has sailed at this firm and you need to start looking. Maybe find a book for paralegals or a book on practice and read it. Maybe get some CLE materials about structuring deals or whatever you don't understand. At least show up with the attitude that you care about your work product.

3. I'm not sure you can hack biglaw. You seem over your head even when you have little responsibility. I don't know how to fix that.

4. Yes, first years get fired. What you have done seems egregiously bad to me. I can't recall anyone getting the parties wrong in a document. It just screams that you don't care or are incompetent.

On the other hand, why take up the time of 2 people if OP was done for? Why not just give them their 3 months at the review? The main thing OP can do is simply take more time with each assignment instead of rushing to get them done. It's unlikely very many assignments need to be turned in, in 24 hours, and it's worth taking the extra 2 hours to make sure everything is correct. Even if the billing partner won't want to charge the client for 20 hours for something that should have taken 10, you still get credit for the 20 and the billing partner probably won't care that much. All that matters is you'd have done the assignment correctly.

If you're the type of person who is into risk assessment with this approach you may work on less deals, but you'll hit the same hours, and your odds of screwing up are much lower than if you rushed through 2 assignments instead of taking your time on one. Whenever you're not sure you did something right, take the time to double check it. All the other associates care about is whether you make their jobs more difficult, and if they need to redo your work then you make their jobs more difficult.

The reason they gave this review is because no one wants to work with OP now. OP seems clueless, even after this warning, as to how badly he is fucking up. He probably has gotten other feedback about his work directly from the people he worked with, but he downplayed it or ignored it. To have two different people refuse to work with you even at a very large firm is a problem.

This is just my guess because it's a unique situation. I think OP has missed previous comments about his work from the attorneys so they did this to try to get his attention and get him focused on moving himself out the door before they throw him out. They may also want him to get it together for the time he remains there. I don't know what OP can do about recommendations.

Also, OP is probably over estimating how good his work has been for partners. He seems to have had no real follow up from it. No meeting like this happens without the partners knowing about it.

Why are you so sure this meeting doesn't happen without partners knowing about it (outside of the ones on the deals OP got in trouble on)?

HR doesn't take it upon themselves to give work reviews.My guess is the partners had to decide how to deal with this problem. There was probably some minimal discussion about it. How many partners in the entire firm know is hard to guess, but I would bet the partners in OPs department all know.
Others may disagree but I have found that word travels fast as to the quality of new associates. It can be just a one or two sentence convo in passing, but word travels.

[somewhatwayward]

Is anyone else getting the flame vibe? Would be very rare to get a talking to this early (that's what six month reviews are for), no specific info about what the mistakes have been, then the Mormon touch...but I'll give OP the benefit of the doubt.

OP, my observation is there are some junior associates who just don't get it and as far as I can tell never really get it. I can't say whether that is you or not. Many junior associates start out as just okay but eventually turn into competent associates and a few just get it almost from day one. I closed a deal late last year in which i worked with a stub and a soon-to-be second year and I quickly figured out that I should rely on the stub because he was better despite having basically zero experience.

The good news for you is that at least in my experience is that the people that really struggle still don't get fired (maybe my firm is different for some reason but I don't know of anyone getting fired the whole time I've been here). The couple people who I can think of who really have no idea what they're doing even years into the job are still hanging around, not getting work, sure, but the good thing is they're getting paid the same amount as everyone else and they don't really have to do much work.

The exception is if this is a stealth layoff. Is the firm busy? Is it one of theones people always mention as shaky? How was its performance last year? If that is a possibility you should look into your options asap.

No matter what you've got to do some deep analysis of what your errors were....even if it is a stealth layoff they still targeted you over your peers and I doubt it was because you're mormon. I would also consider moving into another type of law or maybe even another field like a more business type job. I have noticed some of the people who struggle seem like they should be in business not law. Good luck!

[Tls2016]

Yea. Could be flame.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know why this is that hard to believe. I've been reprimanded before, albeit I've never had a pattern. If your work product on something is uncharacteristically bad then they're going to want to know what happened and get to the bottom of it not only for the junior's benefit, but also assigning attorney's benefit so that they can improve their management skills. If the junior is done for then why have this meeting and the risks that come with it when they can simply blacklist the person, and then let them go for low hours?

[Desert Fox]

The good news for you is that at least in my experience is that the people that really struggle still don't get fired (maybe my firm is different for some reason but I don't know of anyone getting fired the whole time I've been here). The couple people who I can think of who really have no idea what they're doing even years into the job are still hanging around, not getting work, sure, but the good thing is they're getting paid the same amount as everyone else and they don't really have to do much work.

The exception is if this is a stealth layoff. Is the firm busy? Is it one of theones people always mention as shaky? How was its performance last year? If that is a possibility you should look into your options asap.

Do you really think firms just keep people around doing no work, paying them hundreds of thousands a year? I think you generally get 2 years around "grace period." But I know my firm definitely firmed a guy after like 22 months on the job. And he lateraled to another firm. It everyone who didn't know the story, he looks like a guy who just lateraled. The only reason I knew about it was because he was on my case and the partner told the senior who told me.

I used to think nobody got fired from my firm. Until I noticed that 4 anti-trust people left within 2 months and one of them didn't even have a job in his good email. I linked in him, nothing. Odd I thought, why would you leave without lining something up. Then I heard my boss tell another guy in my class who worked in that group to get the fuck out of that group and into another ASAP. I realized what was going on. They were shittcanning that group since the partner couldn't bring in work.

There wasn't any major sudden departure of a whole group. Just one or two departures a month for 8 months until nobody remained. Some of it was people leaving on their own (but they could see the writing on the wall).

And this isn't a firm that is collapsing. We are growing. My office's associate count is up 10% even with the firings. They just weren't in the same group.

If you think nobody gets fired at your firm, you just don't know what a firing looks like.

[El Pollito]

Hello,

TLS has helped me throughout the LSAT, law school, OCI process and helped me thrive along the way. I am currently in a V50 in a major market doing corporate work. I started a few months ago and I had a meeting today with someone who helps coordinate the assignments and an additional HR person who basically told me they wanted to touch on some criticisms they have been hearing from people I have been working with so i can work on them before my actual review comes up. Many of the critiques i can and will fix (respond faster to emails) but generally it seems some? all? a few? of the people i have been working with (midlevels) are unhappy with my work. They think i am either incompetent, or just ignore directions while I am trying my best and just struggling to figure out what to do. This one mid level I was just working with I believe got so fed up with me that they requested a different first year to work with

1. I am scared that I will get fired soon

2. Any advice on how not to just suck at my job? it really really sucks having no idea whats flying. Ive done fairly well at most jobs in my life and succeeded at good schools so its hard for me to think I'm just a moron, but I am starting to think that.

3. Overall advice?

4. anyone hear of a first year getting fired for poor performance, not egregiously bad, before?

1. My bet is your getting a warning if not fired at your review. I have never heard of a first year getting a warning like this within a few months of starting. Were you a summer at this firm? If so, how were your reviews. Did you come in with a black mark against you for poor work product? You don't seem to understand how bad of a position you are in.

2. Why weren't you responding in a timely manner? How do you get party names wrong? You have been doing a poor job. At the very least a first year should be responsive and not make obvious errors.

I'm not sure how to tell you to improve. Honestly, your ship has sailed at this firm and you need to start looking. Maybe find a book for paralegals or a book on practice and read it. Maybe get some CLE materials about structuring deals or whatever you don't understand. At least show up with the attitude that you care about your work product.

3. I'm not sure you can hack biglaw. You seem over your head even when you have little responsibility. I don't know how to fix that.

4. Yes, first years get fired. What you have done seems egregiously bad to me. I can't recall anyone getting the parties wrong in a document. It just screams that you don't care or are incompetent.

On the other hand, why take up the time of 2 people if OP was done for? Why not just give them their 3 months at the review? The main thing OP can do is simply not screw up any more assignments. Don't press send until you know (don't think) but know it's perfect. The worst that can happen is the billing partner crosses off some more hours.

unless you commit fraud or malpractice, firms always create a paper trail before terminating

[Desert Fox]

Who knows when or how OP is getting fired. But we know he probably is.

We also know he has a shitty reputation. Which means he's not going to get opportunities to shine and he's not going to change people's minds, at least not drastically. Even if they drag him around for two years doing the shittiest of due diligence before shitcanning him, so what? What good does that do him? Then he laterals, but as a 2-3 year who doesn't know how to do 2-3 year work?

Once you are reputation is blow, lateraling makes sense immediately.

[Alive97]

It kind of flies in the face of reason that the firm would hold a meeting designed to correct issues "before his review" when they have the specific intention of firing him soon. More likely is that IF OP does not improve, he'll eventually get fired. Firm management is irrational if they're holding this meeting without any chance of allowing the OP to improve.

This thread, starting with the first reply, is a pretty good example of why someone in OP's situation should NOT consult TLS.

[Anonymous User]

When I've screwed up I've just been told what to do next time in a casual conversation with no meeting. I was reprimanded because I had billed about 100 hours to the wrong matter #, and it went directly to the client who didn't know why I had written a closing schedule for a Chapter 11 filing as well as other things, and the other client was upset their bill shot up a month after it was sent so it may not be that comparable to OP, but it's probably worse in that it pissed clients off as opposed to simply creating more work.

How would this create a paper trail for OP? Was OP emailed complaints, or are you saying HR probably has emails from the partners asking them to call a meeting? It would seem to me that if everything was done conversationally that they're trying to protect OP, not necessarily fire them.

[smaug]

It kind of flies in the face of reason that the firm would hold a meeting designed to correct issues "before his review" when they have the specific intention of firing him soon. More likely is that IF OP does not improve, he'll eventually get fired. Firm management is irrational if they're holding this meeting without any chance of allowing the OP to improve.

This thread, starting with the first reply, is a pretty good example of why someone in OP's situation should NOT consult TLS.

Are you an attorney, a law student, or a 0L?

[El Pollito]

When I've screwed up I've just been told what to do next time in a casual conversation with no meeting. I was reprimanded because I had billed about 100 hours to the wrong matter #, and it went directly to the client who didn't know why I had written a closing schedule for a Chapter 11 filing as well as other things, and the other client was upset their bill shot up a month after it was sent so it may not be that comparable to OP, but it's probably worse in that it pissed clients off as opposed to simply creating more work.

How would this create a paper trail for OP? Was OP emailed complaints, or are you saying HR probably has emails from the partners asking them to call a meeting? It would seem to me that if everything was done conversationally that they're trying to protect OP, not necessarily fire them.

Because they are documenting OP's poor performance / performance management process.

[Anonymous User]

When I've screwed up I've just been told what to do next time in a casual conversation with no meeting. I was reprimanded because I had billed about 100 hours to the wrong matter #, and it went directly to the client who didn't know why I had written a closing schedule for a Chapter 11 filing as well as other things, and the other client was upset their bill shot up a month after it was sent so it may not be that comparable to OP, but it's probably worse in that it pissed clients off as opposed to simply creating more work.

How would this create a paper trail for OP? Was OP emailed complaints, or are you saying HR probably has emails from the partners asking them to call a meeting? It would seem to me that if everything was done conversationally that they're trying to protect OP, not necessarily fire them.

Because they are documenting OP's poor performance / performance management process.

Why do they have to do that though? I can see this making more sense if OP is a minority or disabled or something where they may anticipate a potential headache firing them, but if not I don't see any benefit and see some risk.

[20160810]

Hello,

TLS has helped me throughout the LSAT, law school, OCI process and helped me thrive along the way. I am currently in a V50 in a major market doing corporate work. I started a few months ago and I had a meeting today with someone who helps coordinate the assignments and an additional HR person who basically told me they wanted to touch on some criticisms they have been hearing from people I have been working with so i can work on them before my actual review comes up. Many of the critiques i can and will fix (respond faster to emails) but generally it seems some? all? a few? of the people i have been working with (midlevels) are unhappy with my work. They think i am either incompetent, or just ignore directions while I am trying my best and just struggling to figure out what to do. This one mid level I was just working with I believe got so fed up with me that they requested a different first year to work with

1. I am scared that I will get fired soon

2. Any advice on how not to just suck at my job? it really really sucks having no idea whats flying. Ive done fairly well at most jobs in my life and succeeded at good schools so its hard for me to think I'm just a moron, but I am starting to think that.

3. Overall advice?

4. anyone hear of a first year getting fired for poor performance, not egregiously bad, before?

1. My bet is your getting a warning if not fired at your review. I have never heard of a first year getting a warning like this within a few months of starting. Were you a summer at this firm? If so, how were your reviews. Did you come in with a black mark against you for poor work product? You don't seem to understand how bad of a position you are in.

2. Why weren't you responding in a timely manner? How do you get party names wrong? You have been doing a poor job. At the very least a first year should be responsive and not make obvious errors.

I'm not sure how to tell you to improve. Honestly, your ship has sailed at this firm and you need to start looking. Maybe find a book for paralegals or a book on practice and read it. Maybe get some CLE materials about structuring deals or whatever you don't understand. At least show up with the attitude that you care about your work product.

3. I'm not sure you can hack biglaw. You seem over your head even when you have little responsibility. I don't know how to fix that.

4. Yes, first years get fired. What you have done seems egregiously bad to me. I can't recall anyone getting the parties wrong in a document. It just screams that you don't care or are incompetent.

On the other hand, why take up the time of 2 people if OP was done for? Why not just give them their 3 months at the review? The main thing OP can do is simply not screw up any more assignments. Don't press send until you know (don't think) but know it's perfect. The worst that can happen is the billing partner crosses off some more hours.

unless you commit fraud or malpractice, firms always create a paper trail before terminating

Also I don't think they're going to fire him for being bad. Rather, they are going to freeze him out of work and then fire him for not making hours. That could take 6 months or so.

[El Pollito]

When I've screwed up I've just been told what to do next time in a casual conversation with no meeting. I was reprimanded because I had billed about 100 hours to the wrong matter #, and it went directly to the client who didn't know why I had written a closing schedule for a Chapter 11 filing as well as other things, and the other client was upset their bill shot up a month after it was sent so it may not be that comparable to OP, but it's probably worse in that it pissed clients off as opposed to simply creating more work.

How would this create a paper trail for OP? Was OP emailed complaints, or are you saying HR probably has emails from the partners asking them to call a meeting? It would seem to me that if everything was done conversationally that they're trying to protect OP, not necessarily fire them.

Because they are documenting OP's poor performance / performance management process.

Why do they have to do that though? I can see this making more sense if OP is a minority or disabled or something where they may anticipate a potential headache firing them, but if not I don't see any benefit and see some risk.

Because that's how firms do things. They don't usually outright fire people.

[Anonymous User]

Once you are reputation is blow, lateraling makes sense immediately.

I always try to get staffed on projects with those guys whose reputations are blow.

[20160810]

Is anyone else getting the flame vibe? Would be very rare to get a talking to this early (that's what six month reviews are for), no specific info about what the mistakes have been, then the Mormon touch...but I'll give OP the benefit of the doubt.

OP, my observation is there are some junior associates who just don't get it and as far as I can tell never really get it. I can't say whether that is you or not. Many junior associates start out as just okay but eventually turn into competent associates and a few just get it almost from day one. I closed a deal late last year in which i worked with a stub and a soon-to-be second year and I quickly figured out that I should rely on the stub because he was better despite having basically zero experience.

The good news for you is that at least in my experience is that the people that really struggle still don't get fired (maybe my firm is different for some reason but I don't know of anyone getting fired the whole time I've been here). The couple people who I can think of who really have no idea what they're doing even years into the job are still hanging around, not getting work, sure, but the good thing is they're getting paid the same amount as everyone else and they don't really have to do much work.

The exception is if this is a stealth layoff. Is the firm busy? Is it one of theones people always mention as shaky? How was its performance last year? If that is a possibility you should look into your options asap.

No matter what you've got to do some deep analysis of what your errors were....even if it is a stealth layoff they still targeted you over your peers and I doubt it was because you're mormon. I would also consider moving into another type of law or maybe even another field like a more business type job. I have noticed some of the people who struggle seem like they should be in business not law. Good luck!

I doubt this is a flame most incoming associate classes probably have 1-2 associates like this.

[Alive97]

It kind of flies in the face of reason that the firm would hold a meeting designed to correct issues "before his review" when they have the specific intention of firing him soon. More likely is that IF OP does not improve, he'll eventually get fired. Firm management is irrational if they're holding this meeting without any chance of allowing the OP to improve.

This thread, starting with the first reply, is a pretty good example of why someone in OP's situation should NOT consult TLS.

Are you an attorney, a law student, or a 0L?

I am a possessor of common sense with respect to employee performance. And this thread is a shitshow.

[smaug]

It kind of flies in the face of reason that the firm would hold a meeting designed to correct issues "before his review" when they have the specific intention of firing him soon. More likely is that IF OP does not improve, he'll eventually get fired. Firm management is irrational if they're holding this meeting without any chance of allowing the OP to improve.

This thread, starting with the first reply, is a pretty good example of why someone in OP's situation should NOT consult TLS.

Are you an attorney, a law student, or a 0L?

I am a possessor of common sense with respect to employee performance. And this thread is a shitshow.

0Ls shouldn't be posting here.

You can share your "common sense with respect to employee performance" when you get a job as a lawyer.