Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F? Forum

[encore1101]

If i took a second year off I'd have an inexplicable gap on my resume that I'd have to explain to employers. I'd prefer not to do that. In July I will submit all the reports to the school.

Which C&F attorney should I retain--flat fee for $3500 or the hourly rate ones?

That is a genuine concern, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that you took two years off for health-related problems, especially if you say that you wanted to focus on recovery first, instead of trying to balance recovery and law school+bar studying. Plus, you said that you're volunteering for legal aid, right? So it's not like your resume would have a complete gap for those years. Maybe others can chime in, but I wouldn't look negatively on someone who took two years off from law school for health issues.

I also saw on the JDU thread that you were also concerned about your local law schools not having enough seats, but given the sharp decrease of law school applications and admissions, it may not be a problem, especially since you'd be coming in as a 3L, and would not need the "core" 1L classes.

As far as which attorney, I would probably go for the flat fee one. I feel like your issues would require a fair amount of work and court appearances, but that's just my guesstimation.

if its $1,000 retainer + $400/hr, that's a better deal than the flat $3,500 only if your issue takes roughly 6 hours or less to resolve. Your situation sounds kind of sticky, so I feel like it'd take longer. Plus, in the case you get denied, it's nice to know you can have your attorney appeal the decision.

[AReasonableMan]

If i took a second year off I'd have an inexplicable gap on my resume that I'd have to explain to employers. I'd prefer not to do that. In July I will submit all the reports to the school.

Which C&F attorney should I retain--flat fee for $3500 or the hourly rate ones?

July is over 4 months away. You're only 1/2 way through your year off. Contacting them now because you need to in July as you've been doing is tantamount to a summer associate who shows up at a law firm in January asking for work because they'll have to do so in May.

For employers given your grades are at the bottom of the class, you're going to be banking on a personal connection or someone liking you anyway. The grades are going to be a much bigger hurdle than the time off. There's no reason to pay 3,500 now. You're at least a year from going through c&f. It's not such a bargain that you need to do it now. It's just the obsessiveness again.

[Desert Fox]

There is no way should get through C&F. I'd just quit if I were you. Even under treatment you aren't thinking clearly. I can't imagine someone paying you to be an attorney.

[Honeysuckle]

If i took a second year off I'd have an inexplicable gap on my resume that I'd have to explain to employers. I'd prefer not to do that. In July I will submit all the reports to the school.

Which C&F attorney should I retain--flat fee for $3500 or the hourly rate ones?

July is over 4 months away. You're only 1/2 way through your year off. Contacting them now because you need to in July as you've been doing is tantamount to a summer associate who shows up at a law firm in January asking for work because they'll have to do so in May.

For employers given your grades are at the bottom of the class, you're going to be banking on a personal connection or someone liking you anyway. The grades are going to be a much bigger hurdle than the time off. There's no reason to pay 3,500 now. You're at least a year from going through c&f. It's not such a bargain that you need to do it now. It's just the obsessiveness again.

What? I never said I planned to contact the school about readmission before July. In July I will have my treatment providers and the other people I mentioned submit reports. My psychiatrist aunt will personally speak with the school psychologist and the Dean.

[Honeysuckle]

If i took a second year off I'd have an inexplicable gap on my resume that I'd have to explain to employers. I'd prefer not to do that. In July I will submit all the reports to the school.

Which C&F attorney should I retain--flat fee for $3500 or the hourly rate ones?

That is a genuine concern, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that you took two years off for health-related problems, especially if you say that you wanted to focus on recovery first, instead of trying to balance recovery and law school+bar studying. Plus, you said that you're volunteering for legal aid, right? So it's not like your resume would have a complete gap for those years. Maybe others can chime in, but I wouldn't look negatively on someone who took two years off from law school for health issues.

I also saw on the JDU thread that you were also concerned about your local law schools not having enough seats, but given the sharp decrease of law school applications and admissions, it may not be a problem, especially since you'd be coming in as a 3L, and would not need the "core" 1L classes.

As far as which attorney, I would probably go for the flat fee one. I feel like your issues would require a fair amount of work and court appearances, but that's just my guesstimation.

if its $1,000 retainer + $400/hr, that's a better deal than the flat $3,500 only if your issue takes roughly 6 hours or less to resolve. Your situation sounds kind of sticky, so I feel like it'd take longer. Plus, in the case you get denied, it's nice to know you can have your attorney appeal the decision.

Yes, but I can't be volunteering for legal aid forever. I'm sick of boomers and their unpaid internship bullshit. I want to move on with my life instead of languishing in indentured servitude. I want to finish law school, pass the bar exam, and get out of the Vale ASAP.

[Honeysuckle]

There is no way should get through C&F. I'd just quit if I were you. Even under treatment you aren't thinking clearly. I can't imagine someone paying you to be an attorney.

Great, more ableism and mental health stigma. Just what I need!

[AReasonableMan]

There is no way should get through C&F. I'd just quit if I were you. Even under treatment you aren't thinking clearly. I can't imagine someone paying you to be an attorney.

Great, more ableism and mental health stigma. Just what I need!

He was not stigmatizing you from the start. He also provided legal analysis for you that firms would charge about a 1000 dollars for in about 2 min. You have to learn to recognize the difference between people distancing themselves from you because you have the title bipolar, and because you do head scratching stuff that you say is because you're bipolar. They're not the same. The I'm not a threat but if I am it's because I'm bipolar so accommodate my threat rationale won't please the bar. It doesn't sojnd like youve done anytjing that would get you rejected by itself. If I predicted the outcome, it will be you fail c&f for how you frame your conduct, not what you did.

But forgetting all the c&f stuff with grades in the bottom 10 percent of any law school finding a job will be really hard. You are facing a huge mountain, and you really have to get used to taking punches to succeed. Your path to success is very, very hard. You need to be 10x as stable as others. DF could wear a Scream mask for the rest of his life and his odds of success will be better than yours without the mental illness. You have to be the most able person in the world: terrible grades, c&f issue, no job, 1 yr gap b/w 2l and 3l that will come up in every interview, mental illness. You gotta perk up.

[Honeysuckle]

There is no way should get through C&F. I'd just quit if I were you. Even under treatment you aren't thinking clearly. I can't imagine someone paying you to be an attorney.

Great, more ableism and mental health stigma. Just what I need!

He was not stigmatizing you from the start. He also provided legal analysis for you that firms would charge about a 1000 dollars for in about 2 min. You have to learn to recognize the difference between people distancing themselves from you because you have the title bipolar, and because you do head scratching stuff that you say is because you're bipolar. They're not the same. The I'm not a threat but if I am it's because I'm bipolar so accommodate my threat rationale won't please the bar. It doesn't sojnd like youve done anytjing that would get you rejected by itself. If I predicted the outcome, it will be you fail c&f for how you frame your conduct, not what you did.

But forgetting all the c&f stuff with grades in the bottom 10 percent of any law school finding a job will be really hard. You are facing a huge mountain, and you really have to get used to taking punches to succeed. Your path to success is very, very hard. You need to be 10x as stable as others. DF could wear a Scream mask for the rest of his life and his odds of success will be better than yours without the mental illness. You have to be the most able person in the world: terrible grades, c&f issue, no job, 1 yr gap b/w 2l and 3l that will come up in every interview, mental illness. You gotta perk up.

I currently have a job. It is just unpaid because shitboomers.

I don't know whether I am in the bottom 10%. That's just an estimate given that my GPA is a 3.0 and the school's median is a 3.3. My school does not rank.

I never said that bipolar EXCUSED my conduct. I just said that it EXPLAINED the conduct.

[AReasonableMan]

There is no way should get through C&F. I'd just quit if I were you. Even under treatment you aren't thinking clearly. I can't imagine someone paying you to be an attorney.

Great, more ableism and mental health stigma. Just what I need!

He was not stigmatizing you from the start. He also provided legal analysis for you that firms would charge about a 1000 dollars for in about 2 min. You have to learn to recognize the difference between people distancing themselves from you because you have the title bipolar, and because you do head scratching stuff that you say is because you're bipolar. They're not the same. The I'm not a threat but if I am it's because I'm bipolar so accommodate my threat rationale won't please the bar. It doesn't sojnd like youve done anytjing that would get you rejected by itself. If I predicted the outcome, it will be you fail c&f for how you frame your conduct, not what you did.

But forgetting all the c&f stuff with grades in the bottom 10 percent of any law school finding a job will be really hard. You are facing a huge mountain, and you really have to get used to taking punches to succeed. Your path to success is very, very hard. You need to be 10x as stable as others. DF could wear a Scream mask for the rest of his life and his odds of success will be better than yours without the mental illness. You have to be the most able person in the world: terrible grades, c&f issue, no job, 1 yr gap b/w 2l and 3l that will come up in every interview, mental illness. You gotta perk up.

I currently have a job. It is just unpaid because shitboomers.

I don't know whether I am in the bottom 10%. That's just an estimate given that my GPA is a 3.0 and the school's median is a 3.3. My school does not rank.

I never said that bipolar EXCUSED my conduct. I just said that it EXPLAINED the conduct.

You're prob not bottom 10 as 3.6 isn't top 10.

That's fair. For the future realize that there is a reasonableness standard under Title VII. Your past conduct kinda screws you. You also carry the burden of showing you're healthy. Anything obsessive or neurotic can be used as evidence against you. Every time you contact the school puts you at risk. The calls before when the dean trolled you are probably going to come up in the school's decision. Any MPRE scores, calls from friends, bizarre conduct hurts you. Do not under any circumstances trust your ability to handle these choices. People suck as their own advocates even when they have no mental illness.

[Honeysuckle]

Passing the MPRE helps show that I am stable and can handle law related studies. The testimonial from the alum, professor, my psychiatrist aunt, employer, etc. also are intended to show that I am doing stably, as these individuals have personally interacted with me during the withdrawal and can attest to how I am doing emotionally, mentally, etc.

This dood withdrew from Widener. I think everyone can agree that his conduct is a million times worse than mine. If Linkedin is correct, he was reinstated and just graduated from Widener. Doesn't his past conduct also present an unacceptable risk to the school?:

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/05/to-catch ... -predator/

[AReasonableMan]

Passing the MPRE helps show that I am stable and can handle law related studies. The testimonial from the alum, professor, my psychiatrist aunt, employer, etc. also are intended to show that I am doing stably, as these individuals have personally interacted with me during the withdrawal and can attest to how I am doing emotionally, mentally, etc.

This dood withdrew from Widener. I think everyone can agree that his conduct is a million times worse than mine. If Linkedin is correct, he was reinstated and just graduated from Widener. Doesn't his past conduct also present an unacceptable risk to the school?:

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/05/to-catch ... -predator/

What he did was incomparably worse than what you did, but your conduct presents a greater risk. You can damage school property and hurt people in school. Unless the school has 15 year old girls, I don't get how he's a risk?

Your school doesn't seem to have asked you to withdraw because of your inability to handle law related studies. Your GPA would have predicted you'd pass with studying. It means you're not 100% out of touch with reality, yes, but your conduct was flipping out because somebody did something to make you mad. It's not like you thought you were a Russian secret agent and they were James Bond.

I think a big issue and probably one you can do the most to fix is your maturity. Your choice of language (sucking the federal government's teat, balls to the wall, the DWI, but look at his guy!!!!, need for constant reassurance) and using bipolar, a disorder about 2% of people have as the ultimate crutch all are issues you can control without therapy or treatment. I'm sure many lawyers are admitted each year with bipolar disorder.

There are 2 paths to go. Your way and the "I know what I did was wrong, and unfair to the individuals. I understand how my inability to control my conduct in times of mania could present a tremendous liability to my clients who deserve a lawyer who is stable. Nothing can forgive my past conduct, but I've learned that I cannot entirely control my moods due to this illness. There will be times I'm depressed and times I'm manic. What I can control is how I behave under these circumstances as evidenced by a, b and c.

The I'm sick, deal with it. It's unfair to hold my past behavior against me because it's symptomatic of my disease line of thinking will 100% get you rejected across the board. In a sense, it's worse than just straight up hurting people because you're essentially communicating you can't control what you do, and expect others to deal with it.

For what it's worth that sex offender dude is 100% done. Doesn't matter if he were on Harvard law review or if he'd never do it again. The image of that guy on your website or in your office is too big of a business risk. Much likelier a client leaves because you have a pederast working for you than that a client comes because you have a Harvard LR lawyer. If I were ever on a hiring committee, even if it were a "she looked 22" case and I felt bad, I'd 100% say no to any one on the sex offender registry. It's just too much of a marketing nightmare.

[Honeysuckle]

Passing the MPRE helps show that I am stable and can handle law related studies. The testimonial from the alum, professor, my psychiatrist aunt, employer, etc. also are intended to show that I am doing stably, as these individuals have personally interacted with me during the withdrawal and can attest to how I am doing emotionally, mentally, etc.

This dood withdrew from Widener. I think everyone can agree that his conduct is a million times worse than mine. If Linkedin is correct, he was reinstated and just graduated from Widener. Doesn't his past conduct also present an unacceptable risk to the school?:

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/05/to-catch ... -predator/

What he did was incomparably worse than what you did, but your conduct presents a greater risk. You can damage school property and hurt people in school. Unless the school has 15 year old girls, I don't get how he's a risk?

Your school doesn't seem to have asked you to withdraw because of your inability to handle law related studies. Your GPA would have predicted you'd pass with studying. It means you're not 100% out of touch with reality, yes, but your conduct was flipping out because somebody did something to make you mad. It's not like you thought you were a Russian secret agent and they were James Bond.

I think a big issue and probably one you can do the most to fix is your maturity. Your choice of language (sucking the federal government's teat, balls to the wall, the DWI, but look at his guy!!!!, need for constant reassurance) and using bipolar, a disorder about 2% of people have as the ultimate crutch all are issues you can control without therapy or treatment. I'm sure many lawyers are admitted each year with bipolar disorder.

There are 2 paths to go. Your way and the "I know what I did was wrong, and unfair to the individuals. I understand how my inability to control my conduct in times of mania could present a tremendous liability to my clients who deserve a lawyer who is stable. Nothing can forgive my past conduct, but I've learned that I cannot entirely control my moods due to this illness. There will be times I'm depressed and times I'm manic. What I can control is how I behave under these circumstances as evidenced by a, b and c.

The I'm sick, deal with it. It's unfair to hold my past behavior against me because it's symptomatic of my disease line of thinking will 100% get you rejected across the board. In a sense, it's worse than just straight up hurting people because you're essentially communicating you can't control what you do, and expect others to deal with it.

For what it's worth that sex offender dude is 100% done. Doesn't matter if he were on Harvard law review or if he'd never do it again. The image of that guy on your website or in your office is too big of a business risk. Much likelier a client leaves because you have a pederast working for you than that a client comes because you have a Harvard LR lawyer.

Look, I have never denied responsibility for my actions. The bipolar EXPLAINED the conduct but it did not EXCUSE the conduct. Therein lies the difference. I have told my therapist time and time again that not a day goes by that I don't feel regret/remorse for what I did. She will write this in her report that will be sent to the school in July. My psychiatrist and support group director will also be submitting an eval.

[Honeysuckle]

The sex offender dood is jerbed:
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/christophe ... /49/225/24

[Cookies12]

If you do end up getting back into school, do you think you will be able to get a job or even maintain a job?

[AReasonableMan]

The sex offender dood is jerbed:
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/christophe ... /49/225/24

see below

[GreenEggs]

You seem like a nice person who is struggling with mental illness and just trying to get their life back together. Unfortunately posting all over TLS and obsessing over this is only going to fuel your neuroticism.

If I were you I'd ask the mods to lock the thread and delete all my posts in the thread and focus on getting well.

[Honeysuckle]

If you do end up getting back into school, do you think you will be able to get a job or even maintain a job?

Well, I have good WE (lots of volunteer work and internships in PD/Legal Aid with positive references from supervisors--no misconduct) and foreign language language ability (trilingual), so I hope to parlay that into some sort of FTLT jerb. I'm looking into postgrad public interest fellowships, as that is the way to get your foot in the door these days. I actively attend bar association events and set up lunch/coffee dates with attorneys for informational interviews. So yeah, when I comes to the Vale, I've been hustlin'.

[Honeysuckle]

You seem like a nice person who is struggling with mental illness and just trying to get their life back together. Unfortunately posting all over TLS and obsessing over this is only going to fuel your neuroticism.

If I were you I'd ask the mods to lock the thread and delete all my posts in the thread and focus on getting well.

I am focused 100% on treatment and getting well. I attend monthly psychiatrists appointments, go to weekly psychotherapy 1-on-1, and attend a weekly bipolar support group. I am also gainfully employed. Doing everything I can to redeem myself.

[AReasonableMan]

If you do end up getting back into school, do you think you will be able to get a job or even maintain a job?

Well, I have good WE (lots of volunteer work and internships in PD/Legal Aid with positive references from supervisors--no misconduct) and foreign language language ability (trilingual), so I hope to parlay that into some sort of FTLT jerb. I'm looking into postgrad public interest fellowships, as that is the way to get your foot in the door these days. I actively attend bar association events and set up lunch/coffee dates with attorneys for informational interviews. So yeah, when I comes to the Vale, I've been hustlin'.

For what it's worth if we were ever at opposing sides of a table and I knew about your neuroticism, I would absolutely use it against you at all times. I would be reluctant to answer your calls and accept any settlement knowing I could make you freak out, and then get a much better deal for my client. I'd make you go ballistic if it could get even one more dollar for my client. I'm a bad person, yes, but there are definitely tons of people in this industry going to hell before me.

[Honeysuckle]

If you do end up getting back into school, do you think you will be able to get a job or even maintain a job?

Well, I have good WE (lots of volunteer work and internships in PD/Legal Aid with positive references from supervisors--no misconduct) and foreign language language ability (trilingual), so I hope to parlay that into some sort of FTLT jerb. I'm looking into postgrad public interest fellowships, as that is the way to get your foot in the door these days. I actively attend bar association events and set up lunch/coffee dates with attorneys for informational interviews. So yeah, when I comes to the Vale, I've been hustlin'.

For what it's worth if we were ever at opposing sides of a table and I knew about your neuroticism, I would absolutely use it against you at all times. I would be reluctant to answer your calls and accept any settlement knowing I could make you freak out, and then get a much better deal for my client. I'd make you go ballistic if it could get even one more dollar for my client. I'm a bad person, yes, but there are definitely tons of people in this industry going to hell before me.

My illness has never affected my work performance. I was deeply depressed in summer 2013 but still did a superb job for my indigent immigrant clients and got a good reference letter from my employer, which enabled me to win a combined $9,500 in fellowship money for my 2L summer. The only place where my manic depression has impacted my life is at this particular school. And it's not the actual school work/academics that got me manic. It was dealing with the administration.

[AReasonableMan]

If you do end up getting back into school, do you think you will be able to get a job or even maintain a job?

Well, I have good WE (lots of volunteer work and internships in PD/Legal Aid with positive references from supervisors--no misconduct) and foreign language language ability (trilingual), so I hope to parlay that into some sort of FTLT jerb. I'm looking into postgrad public interest fellowships, as that is the way to get your foot in the door these days. I actively attend bar association events and set up lunch/coffee dates with attorneys for informational interviews. So yeah, when I comes to the Vale, I've been hustlin'.

For what it's worth if we were ever at opposing sides of a table and I knew about your neuroticism, I would absolutely use it against you at all times. I would be reluctant to answer your calls and accept any settlement knowing I could make you freak out, and then get a much better deal for my client. I'd make you go ballistic if it could get even one more dollar for my client. I'm a bad person, yes, but there are definitely tons of people in this industry going to hell before me.

My illness has never affected my work performance. I was deeply depressed in summer 2013 but still did a superb job for my indigent immigrant clients and got a good reference letter from my employer, which enabled me to win a combined $9,500 in fellowship money for my 2L summer. The only place where my manic depression has impacted my life is at this particular school. And it's not the actual school work/academics that got me manic. It was dealing with the administration.

What was it that they did?

[Honeysuckle]

That's not important. Let bygones be bygones. Right now what is important is that I am getting the treatment I need to avoid similar negative interactions with authority figures in the future. A diagnosis for PTSD may also help explain the disruptive behaviors towards authority, but I have to talk with my treating psychiatrist about that.

[mmelittlechicken]

If you do end up getting back into school, do you think you will be able to get a job or even maintain a job?

Well, I have good WE (lots of volunteer work and internships in PD/Legal Aid with positive references from supervisors--no misconduct) and foreign language language ability (trilingual), so I hope to parlay that into some sort of FTLT jerb. I'm looking into postgrad public interest fellowships, as that is the way to get your foot in the door these days. I actively attend bar association events and set up lunch/coffee dates with attorneys for informational interviews. So yeah, when I comes to the Vale, I've been hustlin'.

For what it's worth if we were ever at opposing sides of a table and I knew about your neuroticism, I would absolutely use it against you at all times. I would be reluctant to answer your calls and accept any settlement knowing I could make you freak out, and then get a much better deal for my client. I'd make you go ballistic if it could get even one more dollar for my client. I'm a bad person, yes, but there are definitely tons of people in this industry going to hell before me.

lol ok sociopath

[sd5289]

What are my chances of transferring so I could complete my third year at a local school? I want to complete my JD at a local school so I could continue my treatment for bipolar disorder.

You must do 2 years at the school you transfer to. ABA rules.

Can't I just visit away at a local school and have their credits transfer back to my original school? Same thing.

Someone at my law school did that for different reasons, but it seemed to work out just fine.

^ Yeah, someone at my school is doing that right now. I have no idea why, but I know he will be graduating from my school and his JD will be from here, not the school he's visiting right now.

[Desert Fox]

Visiting students graduate from their original.