0 offers club Forum

[Anonymous User]

Honestly, leave no stone unturned. If I had told myself my chances were low so don't apply, I wouldn't have 3 CBs i have scheduled next week in Delaware, DC, and Phili (no ties whatsoever).

I won't be satisfied until I mass-mailed every reasonable market (note - not like Missouri). even if i'm offerless in big law, at least I'll know I tried everything I could possibly do to make it work. The worst thing to me would be having second doubts.

so, onto mailing chicago and texas..

Mind if I ask which firm in Philly? 3L who summered there.

[Anonymous User]

I've been trying to avoid applying to two offices of a single firm but it's starting to mean that there are only a handful of firms to mail in secondary markets. I guess it's far past the point to say screw it and ignore that nonsense self-imposed rule, right?

[Anonymous User]

I've been trying to avoid applying to two offices of a single firm but it's starting to mean that there are only a handful of firms to mail in secondary markets. I guess it's far past the point to say screw it and ignore that nonsense self-imposed rule, right?

yes.

[hoos89]

I've been trying to avoid applying to two offices of a single firm but it's starting to mean that there are only a handful of firms to mail in secondary markets. I guess it's far past the point to say screw it and ignore that nonsense self-imposed rule, right?

I would definitely do this for separate recruiters, and probably for firms that have already rejected you at the office you applied to because why not. However, I'm not sure it will help you to bombard the same recruiter with applications to four different offices.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty sure I've mass-mailed every big firm in the country. Rejected at seriously like half. Keep following up with the other half to silence. Rejected at every firm I call backed on. Maybe big law just isn't in the cards for me.

[Anonymous User]

You can't stop mass mailing until after you hit CA. CA has about 1/3 of the country's population, but only 2 T14 schools. Plus a lot of people that live in CA think it is the best, so they don't ask why you want to work there. The employers assume that you want CA.

[Danger Zone]

You can't stop mass mailing until after you hit CA. CA has about 1/3 of the country's population, but only 2 T14 schools. Plus a lot of people that live in CA think it is the best, so they don't ask why you want to work there. The employers assume that you want CA.

Not to mention that it's one of the most difficult legal markets to crack into.

[Anonymous User]

You can't stop mass mailing until after you hit CA. CA has about 1/3 of the country's population, but only 2 T14 schools. Plus a lot of people that live in CA think it is the best, so they don't ask why you want to work there. The employers assume that you want CA.

um, what?

[Anonymous User]

CA comment is indeed totally off base. this is coming from someone who goes to UCLA/USC w/ good grades and LR who completely struck out there (and grew up/went to undergrad across the country). at least in LA, the community is very insular. i guess it may be different if I didn't go to a regional school, but they'd rather pick from people born and raised in CA apparently. got grilled on why LA/CA in every interview despite obviously going to a regional school to work there and having spent two years there working.

[Anonymous User]

CA comment is indeed totally off base. this is coming from someone who goes to UCLA/USC w/ good grades and LR who completely struck out there (and grew up/went to undergrad across the country). at least in LA, the community is very insular. i guess it may be different if I didn't go to a regional school, but they'd rather pick from people born and raised in CA apparently. got grilled on why LA/CA in every interview despite obviously going to a regional school to work there and having spent two years there working.

+1
I go to a top 6 school. I grew up in CA and went to UG there. I got grilled about why CA at every interview. Granted, some assumed I wanted to move back but others wanted to be absolutely sure.

Also, sure, there are only 2 top 14 schools in CA. HOWEVER, one is a Stanford, and the other is Boalt, where most people target CA.
Also, LA and SC probably have a better shot there then someone in T14 with no ties to CA.

[Anonymous User]

Also just to add to my comment above (the UCLA/USC guy), I've found where no ties aren't as much of an issue is when you come from a place where there isn't a big market. like if you are coming from NY, DC, etc. you are viewed with more suspicion than let's say someone coming from Missouri.

[Yukos]

Yeah, I think every single one of my LA interviews started with "why LA?" Also, if CA had a third of the country's population it would have over 100 million people. It's big but it's not that big...

[goden]

Yeah. Also it's not enough that you're from the Bay Area.

"So why LA? You're not gonna want to go back to SF? Are you sure????"

[Anonymous User]

i'm from CA, and i still get the "why (insert city)?" question. so far, the market looks like this:

LA: They don't give a damn about your "T-14" unless you're from H or Y. CCN gets a glimpse, only because those names are grudgingly recognized as "good schools," but they're still worse than S, so the flight + hotel might not be worth it. Anyone ranked lower than NYU is considered on the same tier as Berkeley. Anyone lower than Berkeley is considered on the same tier as UCLA and USC. Your + or - 2 ranks does not impress them.

SF: The snobby version of LA. You better be law review/ from there if you want to work there, because small market + Stanford and Berkeley being the local schools means they're going to be cheap as well when calling people back. (I had a v50 firm tell me that the best thing I did for my application was to return to CA during waiting period, because they rarely call back HCCN people due to flight and hotel fees... surprised they were v50)

SV: Have an engineering degree or be a former finance guy who is from there. Otherwise it's not going to happen.

SD: Lol at anyone trying to break into this market who's not from So-Cal or have amazing stats.

Irvine: Same as SD

Everywhere else: I think there are a few firms sprinkled around the state. Not sure who they are or what they do

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

T-10 (not S or B); 30% grades; from Cali, 1L summer in CA, and it was a fckin nightmare trying to get a job there.

"Why do you want to come back to Cali?" at every Cali interview. "Are you serious? B/c it's my fckin home you shithead partner!"

Fortunately, broke into a CA firm but just barely.

Point is: Avoid CA unless you go to B or S. Avoid So-Cal unless you go to UCLA, USC.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

To echo the CA sentiment, in my experience the CA market (at least So-Cal, where I go to school/bid), is extremely insular. I'm from the East Coast and came to LA for law school due to my significant other being from the area. I genuinely intend to stay in LA, but EVERY single interview began with "Hmm...we notice you're from the East Coast, so why LA?"

Some pushed harder than others, but I had to be very adamant about the seriousness of my relationship (not married). I tried to illustrate that I was permanently in LA by emphasizing that I moved cross-country for my significant other, so I'm not messing around and trying to make a quick exit back East.

I go to a non-USC/UCLA LA school, top 5%, LR, prestigious undergrad, had 20 pre-select screeners, and only got 4 callbacks. Luckily I was able to convert 3 of those to offers, but even at every interview during my callbacks the "Why LA" question loomed large. I also realized after the fact that 3 or my 4 callbacks were from screeners where the interviewer was originally from the East Coast, so perhaps the East Coast connection helped.

CA firms are skeptical of non-CA people. They assume you're bidding/interviewing in CA because you love the sunshine, beach, and laid-back atmosphere. They worry that when you go weeks without seeing sunlight except from your office, you're going to run back to where you came from.

Unless you're at an LA school or Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Berkeley, So-Cal will be very difficult to break into (they seem unimpressed with non-Harvard/Yale T14s).

Just my $.02

[goden]

Unless you're at an LA school or Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Berkeley, So-Cal will be very difficult to break into (they seem unimpressed with non-Harvard/Yale T14s).

LA schools suck too

just do get top 5% at usc/ucla

if you're aspie and/or jerk off to preftige go to S&C/Skadden
if you're annoyingly social go to GDC
if you're fratty go to PH/Latham
if you hate your life anyway go to Quinn
you won't get Irell/MTO

everyone else get lucky at random LA satellite office like WinsTTTon or strike out

[Anonymous User]

Unless you're at an LA school or Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Berkeley, So-Cal will be very difficult to break into (they seem unimpressed with non-Harvard/Yale T14s).

LA schools suck too

just do get top 5% at usc/ucla

if you're aspie and/or jerk off to preftige go to S&C/Skadden
if you're annoyingly social go to GDC
if you're fratty go to PH/Latham
if you hate your life anyway go to Quinn
you won't get Irell/MTO

everyone else get lucky at random LA satellite office like WinsTTTon or strike out

I agree with bolded/underlined, especially GDC lol.

However, I don't agree that everyone else goes to random LA satellite offices. While it's true that many firms host summer classes of 2-4 students (Crowell, Holland & Knight, Stroock, Perkins, Pillsbury, Nixon Peabody, etc. etc.), you're forgetting firms with a large LA presence like O'Melveny, Sheppard Mullin, White & Case (large office), Milbank (large office), Proskauer (large office), Greenberg (large office), Manatt (ew), etc.

It's not Skadden/GDC/PH/Latham/Quinn or bust. But regardless, it is super difficult to break into the CA market.

[Anonymous User]

This sucks.
I'm at a tippy top school with decent grades. Everyone I know has a job offer except me. No. Let me correct that. Most people I know at my school have v10 offers, and everyone else has v50 offers. What the hell. Can't help but feel depressed and wonder where I fell short.

I'm here at almost sticker debt and I feel like I'm so fucked. It's pretty scary knowing that I most likely won't be able to service my debt.
The worst part is, I feel like I put in more work than most people I know. I worked my ass off 1L year, spent hours formulating my bid list, spent months preparing for interviewing... and look where it got me.

I know it's only 2L year but even career services has told me 3L hiring is rough. To top it all, I can't even focus on school because of job search process. All the extra time I have, when everyone else is relaxing, I'm focusing on the job search. Now I'm behind in classes, with no job, and I don't even know if I can raise my grades for 3L OCI.

Man I have never been so hopeless. I came to this top school and have nothing to show for it.

sorry
/rant

[Anonymous User]

We're in the same boat, my fellow law student. Best of luck to both of us... it'll be hard, but survive we must.

[Anonymous User]

To top it all, I can't even focus on school because of job search process. All the extra time I have, when everyone else is relaxing, I'm focusing on the job search. Now I'm behind in classes, with no job, and I don't even know if I can raise my grades for 3L OCI.

THIS. it also sucks when people with lower grades than you coasted through the process in OCI with minimal effort. I only got 1 cb out of oci, 6 outside of it, failed at all of them. i feel like i wasted 3 months of interviewing when I could've been paying attn in class. pretty much my grades are gonna go down with NOTHING to show for it. Thank GOD i am not clinically depressed, this would send me over the edge no question.

[Anonymous User]

To top it all, I can't even focus on school because of job search process. All the extra time I have, when everyone else is relaxing, I'm focusing on the job search. Now I'm behind in classes, with no job, and I don't even know if I can raise my grades for 3L OCI.

THIS. it also sucks when people with lower grades than you coasted through the process in OCI with minimal effort. I only got 1 cb out of oci, 6 outside of it, failed at all of them. i feel like i wasted 3 months of interviewing when I could've been paying attn in class. pretty much my grades are gonna go down with NOTHING to show for it. Thank GOD i am not clinically depressed, this would send me over the edge no question.

im in the same boat, totally get that feeling... there is a light at the end of this tunnel right?

[Anonymous User]

3L here, I know how tough things are for y'all, I secure my summer employment until March 20 last year. I would suggest going back and following up with any of your contacts at firms. A lot of time some attorneys assume you are going to be fine for finding something without their help when you first reach out and therefore don't want to want to go to bat for you, but later (Ie now) they might be willing to help (what happened to me).