UChicago OCI 2014 Forum

[Pulsar]

Perkins Coie Chi is a popular choice; you'll have to move it up to have a shot. Don't have enough knowledge to comment on the others.

[2014]

It's unlikely that you get any of the 21 slot Chi ones down there.

[florida1949]

How late can we expect to have callbacks scheduled? Into the school year?

[Neal Patrick Harris]

How late can we expect to have callbacks scheduled? Into the school year?

I think there is like a 4 week gap where you could have callbacks. They shouldn't run into school.

I was fairly successful at OCI and was done by week 2. Most everyone is done by week 3.

You generally want to schedule ASAP before slots are filled.

[Anonymous User]

How late can we expect to have callbacks scheduled? Into the school year?

I think there is like a 4 week gap where you could have callbacks. They shouldn't run into school.

I was fairly successful at OCI and was done by week 2. Most everyone is done by week 3.

You generally want to schedule ASAP before slots are filled.

Is it possible that we could be called for CB's before OCI is actually over? (like during the screening period)? If so, do we just work around our empty days during OCI?

[2014]

How late can we expect to have callbacks scheduled? Into the school year?

I think there is like a 4 week gap where you could have callbacks. They shouldn't run into school.

I was fairly successful at OCI and was done by week 2. Most everyone is done by week 3.

You generally want to schedule ASAP before slots are filled.

Is it possible that we could be called for CB's before OCI is actually over? (like during the screening period)? If so, do we just work around our empty days during OCI?

You will be given a number to call, usually to someone in recruiting, and they will generally ask if you are available on X day or on one of X Y and Z days. Some firms will have an online system and they will send you a login. They almost always give you their soonest options first. You are perfectly free to say no and get their availability outside of the first options they give you. It's to your advantage to schedule them ASAP but you should not do so at the expense of any OCI time. If you have a free day it's fair game to do a Chi CB, I'd be very very leery about doing an out of town one though.

I don't know anyone who had OCI CBs that dragged into the school year. Some people who got jobs outside of OCI did have to continue interviewing into the fall, but that's a different animal.

[Anonymous User]

Is there any point to spending a top 15 bid* on Vedder Price if the expected class size is zero per NALP? Where does NALP get the zero prediction from?

*They're currently bid #10 on mine

[Anonymous User]

How late can we expect to have callbacks scheduled? Into the school year?

I think there is like a 4 week gap where you could have callbacks. They shouldn't run into school.

I was fairly successful at OCI and was done by week 2. Most everyone is done by week 3.

You generally want to schedule ASAP before slots are filled.

Is it possible that we could be called for CB's before OCI is actually over? (like during the screening period)? If so, do we just work around our empty days during OCI?

You will be given a number to call, usually to someone in recruiting, and they will generally ask if you are available on X day or on one of X Y and Z days. Some firms will have an online system and they will send you a login. They almost always give you their soonest options first. You are perfectly free to say no and get their availability outside of the first options they give you. It's to your advantage to schedule them ASAP but you should not do so at the expense of any OCI time. If you have a free day it's fair game to do a Chi CB, I'd be very very leery about doing an out of town one though.

I don't know anyone who had OCI CBs that dragged into the school year. Some people who got jobs outside of OCI did have to continue interviewing into the fall, but that's a different animal.

I did an out of town callback during OCI. It was on a Mon/Fri which made it easier. No big deal. Nice to get an offer early as well.

[2014]

I did an out of town callback during OCI. It was on a Mon/Fri which made it easier. No big deal. Nice to get an offer early as well.

I'd be jumpy about doing one on a Monday. Friday (assuming absolutely zero interview conflicts and no firms that you even want to interview with given open sign up potential) makes sense though. Definitely can work like you said, I just wouldn't count on it.

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone comment on firms' perceptions of bidding multiple offices? Lets say I have Kirkland NY and Kirkland Chi in my top 10. Do firms read that as indecision, even if I can tell a compelling story for both offices and just want a better shot at more CBs/offers?

[Mal Reynolds]

Can anyone comment on firms' perceptions of bidding multiple offices? Lets say I have Kirkland NY and Kirkland Chi in my top 10. Do firms read that as indecision, even if I can tell a compelling story for both offices and just want a better shot at more CBs/offers?

From the UChicago alumni thread:

Bidding:

There has been a lot of advice w/r/t grades ITT so far, and we can respond individually to bidlists, so I'm going to talk about bidding advice that I didn't get when I was going into OCI.

When a firm says "no multiple interviews" OCS tells you that you can bid your preferred office higher up, and then bid the other office toward the bottom. When you get to your interview, the OCS story goes, you can interview once for both firms. This isn't true. The examples for me were Latham and Jones Day (interviewed with one NY and one Chi office). Both times I had to tell the interviewer that I was interviewing for both offices and they seemed surprised and wrote it down. Both times I got a callback for just one office. With these firms, it really seems like you have to just pick one. I never accepted the callbacks with these firms so I may be wrong here.

Now, there are also interviews where you can interview twice for different offices. I interviewed with two of Kirkland/Skadden/Sidley this way, and they operate slightly differently but the takeaway is the same: this makes it harder to get an offer. One firm waited until my other screener results were in to make sure I got a callback with both offices before extending a callback at either office (meaning I had to wait until the Chicago results, rather than getting the NY callback with the rest of our school)--this firm told me that I could do my callback with their Chicago office and if I got an offer, I could split the summer with NY or just go to NY if I wanted. The other firm extended their NY callback at the regular time (which I did very early), but then waited until I got my Chicago OFFER to get my NY offer. They told me the reason for this was they wanted to make sure they could offer me at both offices. This means that A) you have to wait longer for results (generally NY offices would come way earlier) and B) you are double evaluated so it's harder to get a single offer because they make sure that both offices like you at either the screener or the callback stage. I had the crazy impression that this would make it easier to get these firms--that if one office didn't like me I could always get an offer at the other. This isn't correct. They both have to like you. What does this mean? Well, NY is generally an easier market, so if you really want a firm regardless of location it may make more sense to just apply to the NY office. If you want more shots at firms in general, remember that getting a screener with a NY and Chi office of a firm may require two top-10 bids. Bid another firm instead of a second office.

Others feel free to chime in if their results differed--but from talking to my friends, it seemed like this was the case with most firms.

[Neal Patrick Harris]

Is there any point to spending a top 15 bid* on Vedder Price if the expected class size is zero per NALP? Where does NALP get the zero prediction from?

*They're currently bid #10 on mine

I think it would be crazy to come here and screen applicants if you don't want to hire anyone. That said, if you want to make sure call recruiting. You don't have to give a name, just ask if they intend on hiring.

[Anonymous User]

Looking for some help/advice on my list as well!

177.5, female non URM, 3 years' good (but not legal-related) WE.
First choice market is Chicago, but I'm also looking at a secondary market (no need to waste bids, as that market isn't coming to OCI), and NY for safety

Here's what I'm thinking for the top 15 (not in order yet; all Chicago unless noted):
Perkins Coie
Baker & Mackenzie
Morgan Lewis
Katten
Pircher Nichols
Cadwalader (NY)
Drinker Biddle
Schiff Hardin
Fried Frank (NY)
Foley & Lardner
Bryan Cave
Proskauer Rose (NY)
Pillsbury Winthrop (NY)
Wilmer Hale (NY)
Jones Day

Basically, I'm approaching this with the idea that Chicago > secondary market > NY and employment > unemployment, but I don't have much preference for specific firms. Any help would be more than welcome!

[skers]

I'm guessing you're avoiding them b/c of a perception about grades, but it's kind of crazy IMO to target Chicago w/o any of Jenner, Skadden, Kirkland or Sidley. Those are the firms that hire the most people and the other firms can still be super competitive, if not more so, since they're only usually hiring like 1-2 people.

[Neal Patrick Harris]

I'm guessing you're avoiding them b/c of a perception about grades, but it's kind of crazy IMO to target Chicago w/o any of Jenner, Skadden, Kirkland or Sidley. Those are the firms that hire the most people and the other firms can still be super competitive, if not more so, since they're only usually hiring like 1-2 people.

I don't think those firms are possible with those grades. But I get what you mean.. the market is VERY small outside of them...

[Anonymous User]

not sure if this should be its own thread, will happily move if that's the case. Just wanted to know for bidding purposes

Is there a point at which it's better to just go to NYC instead of staying in Chicago if you're leaning corporate? Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO?

[Anonymous User]

Another one. Will I snag most of the NY's in my 10-20? Want lit, anything else I should add?

1) Irell - LA - 21
2) OMM - LA - 21
3) Sidley - NY - 21
4) Kirkland - NY - 21
5) Boies - NY Lit - 21
6) Holland and Knight - LA - 11
7) Goodwin Procter - LA - 6
Proskauer - NY - 21
9) Sullcrom - NY - 42
10) Skadden - NY - 42
12) Cravath - NY - 38
13) Paul Weiss - NY - 42
16) Cleary - NY - 42
17) Ropes - NY - 42
18) Simpson - NY - 57
19) Debevoise - NY - 63
20) Greenberg - LA - 21
21) Milbank - NY - 21
22) Mayer - NY - 21
23) Latham - LA - 21
24) Jones - NY - 21
25) Fried - NY - 21
26) DLA - LA - 21
27) Dechert - NY - 21
28) Wilmer - NY - 21
29) Cadwalder - NY - 21

[gchatbrah]

not sure if this should be its own thread, will happily move if that's the case. Just wanted to know for bidding purposes

Is there a point at which it's better to just go to NYC instead of staying in Chicago if you're leaning corporate? Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO?

If you're fairly certain about corporate, then yes I think the answer is honestly Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO. I might even say Kirkland/Sidley or GTFO; I'd personally rather be in Skadden NY than Skadden Chicago -- the selection of corporate work is broader in the NY office. I'm not sure if this is the same for Latham.

If you're above median, it's pretty remarkable how many fantastic NYC firms are in play -- during my year, it seemed like everyone but Wachtell was in play. In most years, everyone but Wachtell, Cravath, S&C, and maybe one of Cleary/DPW are in play [in most years, you needed a bit better than median to these firms in play]. I think the NYC v20 firms are unambiguously better places to begin a corporate career than the most of the Chicago firms.

Full disclosure: only bid NYC, at a v10 this summer.

[WheninLaw]

Another one. Will I snag most of the NY's in my 10-20? Want lit, anything else I should add?

1) Irell - LA - 21
2) OMM - LA - 21
3) Sidley - NY - 21
4) Kirkland - NY - 21
5) Boies - NY Lit - 21
6) Holland and Knight - LA - 11
7) Goodwin Procter - LA - 6
Proskauer - NY - 21
9) Sullcrom - NY - 42
10) Skadden - NY - 42
12) Cravath - NY - 38
13) Paul Weiss - NY - 42
16) Cleary - NY - 42
17) Ropes - NY - 42
18) Simpson - NY - 57
19) Debevoise - NY - 63
20) Greenberg - LA - 21
21) Milbank - NY - 21
22) Mayer - NY - 21
23) Latham - LA - 21
24) Jones - NY - 21
25) Fried - NY - 21
26) DLA - LA - 21
27) Dechert - NY - 21
28) Wilmer - NY - 21
29) Cadwalder - NY - 21

You can drop Irell quite substantially. I'd move Latham LA up. No idea on the NY ones (go to LA).

[Anonymous User]

not sure if this should be its own thread, will happily move if that's the case. Just wanted to know for bidding purposes

Is there a point at which it's better to just go to NYC instead of staying in Chicago if you're leaning corporate? Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO?

If you're fairly certain about corporate, then yes I think the answer is honestly Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO. I might even say Kirkland/Sidley or GTFO; I'd personally rather be in Skadden NY than Skadden Chicago -- the selection of corporate work is broader in the NY office. I'm not sure if this is the same for Latham.

If you're above median, it's pretty remarkable how many fantastic NYC firms are in play -- during my year, it seemed like everyone but Wachtell was in play. In most years, everyone but Wachtell, Cravath, S&C, and maybe one of Cleary/DPW are in play [in most years, you needed a bit better than median to these firms in play]. I think the NYC v20 firm are unambiguously better places to begin a corporate career than the most of the Chicago firms.

Full disclosure: only bid NYC, at a v10 this summer.

dat slim margin of error for corporate Chicago....haha thanks so much for the feedback!

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone comment on firms' perceptions of bidding multiple offices? Lets say I have Kirkland NY and Kirkland Chi in my top 10. Do firms read that as indecision, even if I can tell a compelling story for both offices and just want a better shot at more CBs/offers?

From the UChicago alumni thread:

Bidding:

There has been a lot of advice w/r/t grades ITT so far, and we can respond individually to bidlists, so I'm going to talk about bidding advice that I didn't get when I was going into OCI.

When a firm says "no multiple interviews" OCS tells you that you can bid your preferred office higher up, and then bid the other office toward the bottom. When you get to your interview, the OCS story goes, you can interview once for both firms. This isn't true. The examples for me were Latham and Jones Day (interviewed with one NY and one Chi office). Both times I had to tell the interviewer that I was interviewing for both offices and they seemed surprised and wrote it down. Both times I got a callback for just one office. With these firms, it really seems like you have to just pick one. I never accepted the callbacks with these firms so I may be wrong here.

Now, there are also interviews where you can interview twice for different offices. I interviewed with two of Kirkland/Skadden/Sidley this way, and they operate slightly differently but the takeaway is the same: this makes it harder to get an offer. One firm waited until my other screener results were in to make sure I got a callback with both offices before extending a callback at either office (meaning I had to wait until the Chicago results, rather than getting the NY callback with the rest of our school)--this firm told me that I could do my callback with their Chicago office and if I got an offer, I could split the summer with NY or just go to NY if I wanted. The other firm extended their NY callback at the regular time (which I did very early), but then waited until I got my Chicago OFFER to get my NY offer. They told me the reason for this was they wanted to make sure they could offer me at both offices. This means that A) you have to wait longer for results (generally NY offices would come way earlier) and B) you are double evaluated so it's harder to get a single offer because they make sure that both offices like you at either the screener or the callback stage. I had the crazy impression that this would make it easier to get these firms--that if one office didn't like me I could always get an offer at the other. This isn't correct. They both have to like you. What does this mean? Well, NY is generally an easier market, so if you really want a firm regardless of location it may make more sense to just apply to the NY office. If you want more shots at firms in general, remember that getting a screener with a NY and Chi office of a firm may require two top-10 bids. Bid another firm instead of a second office.

Others feel free to chime in if their results differed--but from talking to my friends, it seemed like this was the case with most firms.

As somebody on the inside, I'll tell you that it is all ultimately a wash. If you are loved by one office but another is lukewarm, both offices are likely to extend a callback and potentially an offer because they want to keep you happy and seem inviting. On the other hand, if you completely bomb an interview with one office, that will probably get back to the other office.

[Neal Patrick Harris]

not sure if this should be its own thread, will happily move if that's the case. Just wanted to know for bidding purposes

Is there a point at which it's better to just go to NYC instead of staying in Chicago if you're leaning corporate? Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO?

If you're fairly certain about corporate, then yes I think the answer is honestly Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO. I might even say Kirkland/Sidley or GTFO; I'd personally rather be in Skadden NY than Skadden Chicago -- the selection of corporate work is broader in the NY office. I'm not sure if this is the same for Latham.

If you're above median, it's pretty remarkable how many fantastic NYC firms are in play -- during my year, it seemed like everyone but Wachtell was in play. In most years, everyone but Wachtell, Cravath, S&C, and maybe one of Cleary/DPW are in play [in most years, you needed a bit better than median to these firms in play]. I think the NYC v20 firms are unambiguously better places to begin a corporate career than the most of the Chicago firms.

Full disclosure: only bid NYC, at a v10 this summer.

Agree. Applies to niche practice areas too that are mostly in other markets

[Anonymous User]

not sure if this should be its own thread, will happily move if that's the case. Just wanted to know for bidding purposes

Is there a point at which it's better to just go to NYC instead of staying in Chicago if you're leaning corporate? Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO?

If you're fairly certain about corporate, then yes I think the answer is honestly Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO. I might even say Kirkland/Sidley or GTFO; I'd personally rather be in Skadden NY than Skadden Chicago -- the selection of corporate work is broader in the NY office. I'm not sure if this is the same for Latham.

If you're above median, it's pretty remarkable how many fantastic NYC firms are in play -- during my year, it seemed like everyone but Wachtell was in play. In most years, everyone but Wachtell, Cravath, S&C, and maybe one of Cleary/DPW are in play [in most years, you needed a bit better than median to these firms in play]. I think the NYC v20 firms are unambiguously better places to begin a corporate career than the most of the Chicago firms.

Full disclosure: only bid NYC, at a v10 this summer.

Agree. Applies to niche practice areas too that are mostly in other markets

OP here. Is chicago credited for anything other than litigation?

[Neal Patrick Harris]

not sure if this should be its own thread, will happily move if that's the case. Just wanted to know for bidding purposes

Is there a point at which it's better to just go to NYC instead of staying in Chicago if you're leaning corporate? Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO?

If you're fairly certain about corporate, then yes I think the answer is honestly Kirkland/Latham/Skadden/Sidley or GTFO. I might even say Kirkland/Sidley or GTFO; I'd personally rather be in Skadden NY than Skadden Chicago -- the selection of corporate work is broader in the NY office. I'm not sure if this is the same for Latham.

If you're above median, it's pretty remarkable how many fantastic NYC firms are in play -- during my year, it seemed like everyone but Wachtell was in play. In most years, everyone but Wachtell, Cravath, S&C, and maybe one of Cleary/DPW are in play [in most years, you needed a bit better than median to these firms in play]. I think the NYC v20 firms are unambiguously better places to begin a corporate career than the most of the Chicago firms.

Full disclosure: only bid NYC, at a v10 this summer.

Agree. Applies to niche practice areas too that are mostly in other markets

OP here. Is chicago credited for anything other than litigation?

depends what you're interested in. PM me if you have niche interests and we can talk.

[2014]

Another one. Will I snag most of the NY's in my 10-20? Want lit, anything else I should add?

1) Irell - LA - 21
2) OMM - LA - 21
3) Sidley - NY - 21
4) Kirkland - NY - 21
5) Boies - NY Lit - 21
6) Holland and Knight - LA - 11
7) Goodwin Procter - LA - 6
Proskauer - NY - 21
9) Sullcrom - NY - 42
10) Skadden - NY - 42
12) Cravath - NY - 38
13) Paul Weiss - NY - 42
16) Cleary - NY - 42
17) Ropes - NY - 42
18) Simpson - NY - 57
19) Debevoise - NY - 63
20) Greenberg - LA - 21
21) Milbank - NY - 21
22) Mayer - NY - 21
23) Latham - LA - 21
24) Jones - NY - 21
25) Fried - NY - 21
26) DLA - LA - 21
27) Dechert - NY - 21
28) Wilmer - NY - 21
29) Cadwalder - NY - 21

Irell can be bid 50th
Sullcrom and Cravath can be bid lower
Your 21 slot firms from 20-29 are all iffy w/ Cadwalader, Wilmer and Dechert almost certainly being no gos.
Strange omissions of Davis Polk and White and Case given your inclusion of the rest of the V20