2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone applied to and heard back from Quinn yet? I sent in my materials about a week or so ago.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone applied to and heard back from Quinn yet? I sent in my materials about a week or so ago.

Last year at least one person I know who had a callback with Quinn did not get that callback until the timeframe when other firms were giving callbacks--after OGI.

[Anonymous User]

I had a 3.25 first semester and a 3.59 second semester. Do firms give a shit about an "upward trend" or is your GPA just what it is?

[Anonymous User]

I had a 3.25 first semester and a 3.59 second semester. Do firms give a shit about an "upward trend" or is your GPA just what it is?

Unless it is some crazy jump (like 3.0 --> 3.9 or something) I have been told by CSO firms just care about the final number. The fact is, a lot of people go up or down, and people below median after first semester are more likely to make big jumps than people toward the top of the class, just because there is more room for improvement.

[Anonymous User]

UVA ALUM: It might have some value. In my experience, it was all a cutoff figure. If you were above that you were in play. It normally wasn't necessarily the 3.5 kid > 3.4 kid. The ability to learn, and improve has value.

[5ky]

UVA ALUM: It might have some value. In my experience, it was all a cutoff figure. If you were above that you were in play. It normally wasn't necessarily the 3.5 kid > 3.4 kid. The ability to learn, and improve has value.

What? No

[Anonymous User]

What am I supposed to be looking for when I do my bid list? The ratio of SA class to number of bids last year?

I have a 3.51 interested in DC. My plan was to bid conservative and bid the "band 2" DC firms towards the top. My bottom picks I plan on using to target a hometown market that little people will bid on.

I feel like I should also ask people not to quote if possible

[CvilleRunner]

Does anyone have advice on or experience with what to do if a firm is coming but the office you are interested in for that firm is not coming. Should I reach out to that firm outside of the OGI process and suggest in my cover letter that I would be willing to meet with a representative from their firm when they are here? Should I use a bid on them and explain my circumstances in the cover letter?

Also, for non-OGI applications which is better, email applications or hard copy?

[5ky]

Does anyone have advice on or experience with what to do if a firm is coming but the office you are interested in for that firm is not coming. Should I reach out to that firm outside of the OGI process and suggest in my cover letter that I would be willing to meet with a representative from their firm when they are here? Should I use a bid on them and explain my circumstances in the cover letter?

Also, for non-OGI applications which is better, email applications or hard copy?

I think tcr would be to reach out to the firm outside of the OGI structure. I definitely wouldn't bid on an office you didn't want and attempt to explain you actually wanted a different office.

Email applications is fine.

[sprezz]

agree - don't bid them unless you would otherwise bid on an office that's interviewing (waste of everyone's time)

i'd plan on stopping by their hospitality suite and give your elevator speech for the other office. i'd also probably try to touch base with either the head UVA recruiter in advance, or the one at the other office if there is one. and check the resume drop list, sometimes extra offices take resumes that way.

thats the quasi outside OGI approach but if you're in the desired city this summer i'd touch base way outside OGI. varies firm by firm but some are going to be way less cohesive as far as "NY recruiting committee told CHI office this guy's good, he must be worth interviewing!", and you can really only benefit from being on the local office's radar. seems to help soften the "ties" evaluation too, in my experience.

[Anonymous User]

do we send our advising transcript when mass mailing? the one generated from SIS? is there another one with a GPA listed?

[Yardbird]

do we send our advising transcript when mass mailing? the one generated from SIS? is there another one with a GPA listed?

I would send the grade sheet unless specifically told otherwise that you need an official transcript. Most of the firms at job fairs and for OGI say grade sheets are fine. Also, grade sheets arguably give a slight boost to certain applicants when there's no GPA listed since firms might just look for grades in a general range (e.g. A few As, mostly B+s, and one B- will *look* better than all B+s with one A, even if the latter has a higher GPA; this is all moot if the firms go through and actually calculate out the GPAs). If you really want to list your GPA because it's awesome (3.6/3.7+), you can always list it on your resume.

Also, check your anon use-pretty sure you didn't need it there.

[Anonymous User]

Hello all! Rising 3L here to share my experience/advice. I went through OGI with a ~3.3 (and no special credentials). I am currently summering at a V100 in a major market. Here are my 5 best tips:

(1) Mass mail and respond to symplicity postings and resume collects BEFORE, DURING, and AFTER OGI. Do not stop applying until you get an offer. I got the offer I accepted because I applied to a symplicity posting that was literally only up for a couple days during OGI. Every day you should be checking symplicity and sending out more resumes.

(2) There is a lot less transparency in this process than you'll like. I got CBs at grade selective firms in primary markets and rejections at non-grade selective firms in secondary (and tertiary) markets. Do not think of the grade information CSO gives as gospel. Same goes for selectivity of markets, I personally struck out in NYC but got CBs in DC--these things happen. The best advice I have is if you don't get many preselects, then special request. If you get 15 interviews or less, call CSO and ask to submit more special requests than the maximum - they will let you.

(3) Law students are fungible, but a great interview can really set you apart. Be professional and memorable. Try to apply what you know about the firm to your resume and try to answer questions with stories that the interviewer can relate to, so that the interview becomes a conversation. Be the most qualified, confident, happy version of yourself.

(4) Attend any and all job fairs that you can. Yes, traveling is expensive, but it's a small price to pay for 160k guaranteed at graduation. I got CBs from job fairs, but even if you don't, it's a great way to get comfortable doing screeners before OGI.

(5) Use OGI to try to get a job in the markets that you have the most compelling reasons for wanting to be in. Use mass mail, symplicity, etc. to apply to every market you'd consider going to regardless of ties. People get jobs without ties. I know of many people who are working at SAs in (even non-NYC) markets w/o ties.

To sum it up with a cliche - you miss all the shots you don't take. If you don't get a job, you WILL wish you did more, and if you do get a job, you won't care about the additional effort you put in to get there. I cannot stress that enough. You are going to law school to be an attorney, therefore, getting a job needs to be your #1 priority, so do whatever it takes to get there.

Good luck!!!

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone here go to the "straight talk 3.48+" webinar? I missed it. What was the main point?


Also for the sake of everyone actually, if you went to any of the straight talk webinars would you mind sharing a summary?

[Anonymous User]

[Edit] Thanks for the input

[sprezz]

r&g will ask for your UG GPA so if you were a splitter, reassess how sticky that #2 spot is within your top 5. both your 1 and 2 seem very reach-y at your gpa, which is fine, just fyi.

cb from katten is probably the weakest cb->offer percentage in the markets you've stated an interest in... they call a ton of people back. again just fyi, don't think it matters for your purposes, but it's one of the factors you mentioned yet they're up pretty high anyway.

you say "bidding on almost all the [market1]/[market2] firms you would want to work for save a few" -- why not all of them and strike some of the wasted bids lower on the totem pole in markets you dgaf about? simpson and boies jump out at me as wasted bids but idk the opportunity cost of bids you're looking at. GDC also has a gpa floor from what i understand, see if you're above it before burning two top 11 bids on your backup markets. (if you are, it's a good use of at least one high bid because above that floor they're pretty fit oriented esp at the screener to cb stage). burying MB chi makes me think you're doing your homework in the markets you're gunning for, so that's good. good luck.

[Anonymous User]

r&g will ask for your UG GPA so if you were a splitter, reassess how sticky that #2 spot is within your top 5. both your 1 and 2 seem very reach-y at your gpa, which is fine, just fyi.

cb from katten is probably the weakest cb->offer percentage in the markets you've stated an interest in... they call a ton of people back. again just fyi, don't think it matters for your purposes, but it's one of the factors you mentioned yet they're up pretty high anyway.

you say "bidding on almost all the [market1]/[market2] firms you would want to work for save a few" -- why not all of them and strike some of the wasted bids lower on the totem pole in markets you dgaf about? simpson and boies jump out at me as wasted bids but idk the opportunity cost of bids you're looking at. GDC also has a gpa floor from what i understand, see if you're above it before burning two top 11 bids on your backup markets. (if you are, it's a good use of at least one high bid because above that floor they're pretty fit oriented esp at the screener to cb stage). burying MB chi makes me think you're doing your homework in the markets you're gunning for, so that's good. good luck.

I was a splitter and I know it'll be tough since I didn't do H for undergrad. That being said, I have some connections there that I'm hoping will turn things into a screener. Ditto on Kirkland (and more so than R&G). I realize Katten has a low callback to offer ratio, but they have a very high screener to callback ratio and bids to interview slots ratio. I'm banking on getting my foot in the door with a screener and seeing how things go from there. For GDC, the UVA materials show they've offered a CB to someone with similar stats within the last four years so I might be above their floor.

Lastly, I should have clarified and said the reason I'm not bidding on all the firms in Market 1/2 that I'm interested in is either 1) They don't come to OGI, 2) I bid on them through CCBA/BLG and am taking a small risk by not double bidding, or 3) the likelihood of getting a screener at UVA is so small given the number of interview slots and shared bids among offices that I'm probably just as well off mass mailing.

If anyone else can critique my list I'd appreciate it (try not to quote the actual list if possible). I'm supposed to have a call with CSO next week to go over my list (hopefully they'll point out any huge mistakes since they have more complete information). My goal is to maximize the number of interviews I'll have, as I've been told by CSO and a bunch of firms that I am a great interviewer.

[turn left]

Did anyone here go to the "straight talk 3.48+" webinar? I missed it. What was the main point?


Also for the sake of everyone actually, if you went to any of the straight talk webinars would you mind sharing a summary?

Interested in this as well. Will they post it on the career services site as they did with the cover letter and networking webinars from earlier this summer?

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone here go to the "straight talk 3.48+" webinar? I missed it. What was the main point?


Also for the sake of everyone actually, if you went to any of the straight talk webinars would you mind sharing a summary?

Ditto, except for the straight talk 3.2-3.35 webinar.

Did anyone here go to the "straight talk 3.48+" webinar? I missed it. What was the main point?


Also for the sake of everyone actually, if you went to any of the straight talk webinars would you mind sharing a summary?

Interested in this as well. Will they post it on the career services site as they did with the cover letter and networking webinars from earlier this summer?

The webinar schedule says they weren't recording the straight talk webinars.

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone here go to the "straight talk 3.48+" webinar? I missed it. What was the main point?


Also for the sake of everyone actually, if you went to any of the straight talk webinars would you mind sharing a summary?

Not sure we are supposed to post too much detail. Ask a friend.

But, for what its worth, I peaked in on all of them. No advice that you cannot deduce from looking at the data - don't be stupid in your bidding. If your median and put a 1* firm as your #1 yes, you will get the interview - but the interviewer likely won't be giving you a shot before you even walk in the door.

Other than that, every webinar except for the 3.5+ one stressed the importance of doing work outside OGI if you want a job. Actually, It was even mentioned as important for those in the lower 3.5 range.

[daleearnhardt123]

DISCLAIMER: Some of you may be able to guess who I am even though this is anonymous. Please don't out me.

Please critique my bid list! I'm looking at Boston/Chicago, with NY/DC as backups. I have strong ties to Boston, Chicago, and NY. There aren't too many Boston/Chicago firms coming to OGI, so I am bidding on almost all the Boston/Chicago firms I would want to work for save a few. I might end up removing some Chicago firms based on what screeners I get through the CCBA minority job fair. The BLG job fair "bidding" is the same time as OGI, so I am doubling up on some Boston firms since I won't know which screeners I get (if any) until around the same time we find out preselects for OGI

I tried my best to look at GPA ranges for the firms, the number of screeners they have compared to bids at UVA, and firm class sizes and practice areas when ranking firms. My first 5 are my "ideal firms" and I won't be changing those bid numbers; the rest are based on (1) my assessed probability of getting a screener at UVA (using the career services material) and (2) if I get a callback from that screener, how likely an offer would be based on my numbers and the firm's historical numbers. I am also planning to mass-mail every other firm in NY/DC/Boston/Chicago that doesn't double up on a firm I bid on for OGI/BLG/CCBA and got a screener for.

GPA: Slightly above median (upward grade trend)
Undergrad Major: Business (T20 Undergrad B-School)
Softs: Minority; Dillard Fellow; secondary journal managing board; some other small leadership positions

Bid Number | Firm Name | 2014 Class Size
01 | Kirkland & Ellis (CHI) | 42
02 | Ropes & Gray (BOS) | 48
03 | WilmerHale (BOS) | 29
04 | Goodwin Procter (BOS) | 24
05 | Jenner & Block (CHI) | 14
06 | Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (DC) | 26
07 | Katten Muchin Rosenman (CHI) | 14
08 | Seward & Kissel (NY) | 14
09 | Weil, Gotshal & Manges (NY) | 46
10 | Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) | 122
11 | Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (NY) | 34
12 | Davis Polk & Wardwell (NY) | 121
13 | Latham & Watkins (BOS) | 4
14 | Bracewell & Giuliani (NY) | 8
15 | Foley Hoag (BOS) | 18
16 | Arnold & Porter (DC) | 17
17 | Skadden (NY) | 94
18 | Covington & Burling (DC) | 49
19 | White & Case (NY) | 32
20 | Willkie Farr & Gallagher (NY) | 48
21 | Debevoise & Plimpton (NY) | 74
22 | Schulte Roth & Zabel (NY) | 34
23 | Hogan Lovells (DC) | 25
24 | Choate Hall & Stewart | 12
25 | Cadwalader (NY) | 27
26 | Akin Gump (NY) | 11
27 | Clifford Chance (NY) | --- (N/A)
28 | Cahill Gordon & Reindel (NY) | 51 (2013)
29 | Baker Botts (DC) | 10
30 | Paul Hastings (NY) | 17
31 | Nixon Peabody (BOS) | 3 (2013)
32 | Simpson Thacher & Bartlett (NY) | 102
33 | Linklaters (NY) | 22
34 | Kasowitz, Benson (NY) | 14
35 | Paul Weiss (NY) | 84
36 | Wiley Rein (DC) | 15
37 | Allen & Overy (NY) | 23
38 | Mayer Brown (CHI) | 40
39 | K&L Gates (BOS) | 8
40 | Fried Frank (NY) | 34
41 | Cooley (BOS) | 5
42 | Morgan Lewis & Bockius (NY) | 12
43 | Proskauer Rose (NY) | 39
44 | Shearman & Sterling (NY) | 43
45 | Cleary Gottlieb (NY) | 79
46 | Boies Schiller (NY) | 27
47 | Bingham McCutchen (DC) | 24 (firmwide #)
48 | Chadbourne & Parke (NY) | 13
49 | Milbank (NY) | 36
50 | Orrick Herrington (NY) | 12

The fact that you are a minority makes this far less predictable, but I'm inclined to say you are absolutely out of the running for the following offices w a ~3.4 (that's how I interpret "slightly above median")

DC: GDC, A+P, Covington, Hogan, Wiley
NY: Sullcrom, DPW, Boies


Don't know about Chicago or Boston well enough to comment.

Edited to include Boies. Crazy competitive and pretty small office.

[Anonymous User]

DISCLAIMER: Some of you may be able to guess who I am even though this is anonymous. Please don't out me.

Please critique my bid list! I'm looking at Boston/Chicago, with NY/DC as backups. I have strong ties to Boston, Chicago, and NY. There aren't too many Boston/Chicago firms coming to OGI, so I am bidding on almost all the Boston/Chicago firms I would want to work for save a few. I might end up removing some Chicago firms based on what screeners I get through the CCBA minority job fair. The BLG job fair "bidding" is the same time as OGI, so I am doubling up on some Boston firms since I won't know which screeners I get (if any) until around the same time we find out preselects for OGI

I tried my best to look at GPA ranges for the firms, the number of screeners they have compared to bids at UVA, and firm class sizes and practice areas when ranking firms. My first 5 are my "ideal firms" and I won't be changing those bid numbers; the rest are based on (1) my assessed probability of getting a screener at UVA (using the career services material) and (2) if I get a callback from that screener, how likely an offer would be based on my numbers and the firm's historical numbers. I am also planning to mass-mail every other firm in NY/DC/Boston/Chicago that doesn't double up on a firm I bid on for OGI/BLG/CCBA and got a screener for.

GPA: Slightly above median (upward grade trend)
Undergrad Major: Business (T20 Undergrad B-School)
Softs: Minority; Dillard Fellow; secondary journal managing board; some other small leadership positions

Bid Number | Firm Name | 2014 Class Size
01 | Kirkland & Ellis (CHI) | 42
02 | Ropes & Gray (BOS) | 48
03 | WilmerHale (BOS) | 29
04 | Goodwin Procter (BOS) | 24
05 | Jenner & Block (CHI) | 14
06 | Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (DC) | 26
07 | Katten Muchin Rosenman (CHI) | 14
08 | Seward & Kissel (NY) | 14
09 | Weil, Gotshal & Manges (NY) | 46
10 | Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) | 122
11 | Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (NY) | 34
12 | Davis Polk & Wardwell (NY) | 121
13 | Latham & Watkins (BOS) | 4
14 | Bracewell & Giuliani (NY) | 8
15 | Foley Hoag (BOS) | 18
16 | Arnold & Porter (DC) | 17
17 | Skadden (NY) | 94
18 | Covington & Burling (DC) | 49
19 | White & Case (NY) | 32
20 | Willkie Farr & Gallagher (NY) | 48
21 | Debevoise & Plimpton (NY) | 74
22 | Schulte Roth & Zabel (NY) | 34
23 | Hogan Lovells (DC) | 25
24 | Choate Hall & Stewart | 12
25 | Cadwalader (NY) | 27
26 | Akin Gump (NY) | 11
27 | Clifford Chance (NY) | --- (N/A)
28 | Cahill Gordon & Reindel (NY) | 51 (2013)
29 | Baker Botts (DC) | 10
30 | Paul Hastings (NY) | 17
31 | Nixon Peabody (BOS) | 3 (2013)
32 | Simpson Thacher & Bartlett (NY) | 102
33 | Linklaters (NY) | 22
34 | Kasowitz, Benson (NY) | 14
35 | Paul Weiss (NY) | 84
36 | Wiley Rein (DC) | 15
37 | Allen & Overy (NY) | 23
38 | Mayer Brown (CHI) | 40
39 | K&L Gates (BOS) | 8
40 | Fried Frank (NY) | 34
41 | Cooley (BOS) | 5
42 | Morgan Lewis & Bockius (NY) | 12
43 | Proskauer Rose (NY) | 39
44 | Shearman & Sterling (NY) | 43
45 | Cleary Gottlieb (NY) | 79
46 | Boies Schiller (NY) | 27
47 | Bingham McCutchen (DC) | 24 (firmwide #)
48 | Chadbourne & Parke (NY) | 13
49 | Milbank (NY) | 36
50 | Orrick Herrington (NY) | 12

The fact that you are a minority makes this far less predictable, but I'm inclined to say you are absolutely out of the running for the following offices w a ~3.4 (that's how I interpret "slightly above median")

DC: GDC, A+P, Covington, Hogan, Wiley
NY: Sullcrom, DPW, Boies


Don't know about Chicago or Boston well enough to comment.

Edited to include Boies. Crazy competitive and pretty small office.

Agree with this. I have a 3.6+ and was told to take Covington off because it was probably a wasted bid. Also, the hiring partner for UVA at GDC told me they just preselect the X highest GPAs they get (however many preselects they have). Arnold and Porter is a Law Review/Prestige shop, Hogan as well although not quite as much.

And yeah, Boies is on another planet.

[hoorahray]

Rising 3L in DC SA right now. Feel free to PM with questions!

[Anonymous User]

DISCLAIMER: Some of you may be able to guess who I am even though this is anonymous. Please don't out me.

Please critique my bid list!

Removed bidlist from quote

The fact that you are a minority makes this far less predictable, but I'm inclined to say you are absolutely out of the running for the following offices w a ~3.4 (that's how I interpret "slightly above median")

DC: GDC, A+P, Covington, Hogan, Wiley
NY: Sullcrom, DPW, Boies


Don't know about Chicago or Boston well enough to comment.

Edited to include Boies. Crazy competitive and pretty small office.

I agree that DC: AP and Cov are wasted bids. I don't know anything about Wiley DC. I've known people who have gotten Hogan at slightly above median. But I don't think you'll pre-selected at Hogan and so many people at UVA want to work at Hogan that I think you need to rank them higher if you want to get a lottery pick.

NY: SullCromm and DPW are definitely wasted bids. I would also add Cleary Gottleib, You won't get a callback with a slightly above median gpa.

Is there any reason you don't have Sidley Chicago?

[Anonymous User]

The fact that you are a minority makes this far less predictable, but I'm inclined to say you are absolutely out of the running for the following offices w a ~3.4 (that's how I interpret "slightly above median")

DC: GDC, A+P, Covington, Hogan, Wiley
NY: Sullcrom, DPW, Boies


Don't know about Chicago or Boston well enough to comment.

Edited to include Boies. Crazy competitive and pretty small office.

I agree that DC: AP and Cov are wasted bids. I don't know anything about Wiley DC. I've known people who have gotten Hogan at slightly above median. But I don't think you'll pre-selected at Hogan and so many people at UVA want to work at Hogan that I think you need to rank them higher if you want to get a lottery pick.

NY: SullCromm and DPW are definitely wasted bids. I would also add Cleary Gottleib, You won't get a callback with a slightly above median gpa.

Is there any reason you don't have Sidley Chicago?

Thanks for all the help everyone. If possible, can people take my bidlist out of their quotes (since I'll likely take it down once I get more feedback.

I'll edit my bidlist to get rid of any wasted bids. I don't have Sidley Chicago because they aren't coming to OGI this year. I will be mass mailing them though if I don't get a screener through CCBA.