Loyola PLIP 2014 Thread - Strategies? Forum

[mx23250]

Also, any recommendation on how to list that you intend to taking the Patent Bar this summer (prior to PLIP, of course)?
Would something like this below my name and address work?:
Patent Bar Eligible - Anticipated USPTO Registration Examination: July 2014

Also want a sanity check, I'm planning on taking the Patent Bar this summer (Working too). That's totally do-able too?
No patent experience, just planning on taking a prep course. Any recommendations? (Heard good things about PLI despite its price-tag).

Thanks.

I took the patent bar and passed a month ago. I studied for 20hrs/week for 4 months. It was definitely overkill, but I wanted to make sure I had everything memorized, including all AIA changes and every question ever asked that's available. I only recognized maybe 20% of the questions as repeat, so you definitely need to know all the critical MPEP material. I think I got around 95% right so my 4 months of studying certainly wasn't necessary. I think 2 months is minimal if you really work hard. I did OmniPrep (it's okay) but PatBar also has a promotion running for their $895 program at $495 (same as OmniPrep) and I'd say PatBar seems better. My biggest advice is that whatever program or material you use, be sure to get a good MPEP summary (usually at least 200-300 pages to cover everything, including AIA) and read it at least 5 times to make sure you have everything down. This was essential for my passing together with memorizing past Qs/As, including those for free on the USPTO site. PLI is really good but way too expensive.

[Anonymous User]

Is passing the patent bar actually helpful for getting a job?

I've heard it's one of the biggest resume boosts you can have for patent prosecution. I actually heard from a friend that he and a classmate at a T20 school both applied to several of the same pat. pros. SAs and one of them was around top 20% the other closer to 50% and the 50% had passed the patent bar, 20% didn't and the 50% got far more offers/call backs than the 20%, including some that the 20% never got. Obviously there could be other differences between their resumes, and this is anecdotal, but still...

[patogordo]

they billed me out as a patent agent. if i didn't have my bar # they probably wouldn't have taken me for the summer.

So they hired you as a lawyer but paid you at par with the patent agents because you hadn't passed the bar?

patent pros is pretty low margin. i doubt clients want to pay for a 1L. they were also able to let me handle examiner interviews, etc without supervision since i had a number. if you're looking to do pros i don't see why you wouldn't just take it before or during LS. it's not that hard. is this really controversial advice?

[09042014]

they billed me out as a patent agent. if i didn't have my bar # they probably wouldn't have taken me for the summer.

So they hired you as a lawyer but paid you at par with the patent agents because you hadn't passed the bar?

patent pros is pretty low margin. i doubt clients want to pay for a 1L. they were also able to let me handle examiner interviews, etc without supervision since i had a number. if you're looking to do pros i don't see why you wouldn't just take it before or during LS. it's not that hard. is this really controversial advice?

No its not controversial. I just figured it was bullshit since as long as you can take the exam you can do so in a few months. I never considered they'd throw you into real work over a SA.

[patogordo]

i don't think it really matters for biglaw SAs, but it can open up other options. the firm i worked for 1L summer was a midlaw firm that doesn't normally take SAs but they took me because i had my bar number. you can also make some decent cash working part-time during 2L/3L. nothing gamechanging but i think it's worth it if you have some free time.

[Hipster but Athletic]

There's just no way it's possible for anyone to exceed 32 bids this year. At least not by enough that it matters. This is a sad indication of the state of legal hiring.

*unless my "86" entries is limited bc I'll be a 3l

[09042014]

There's just no way it's possible for anyone to exceed 32 bids this year. At least not by enough that it matters. This is a sad indication of the state of legal hiring.

*unless my "86" entries is limited bc I'll be a 3l

When I 3L'd it I was only limited to 3L firms. What you see isn't the whole thing.

[Anonymous User]

There's just no way it's possible for anyone to exceed 32 bids this year. At least not by enough that it matters. This is a sad indication of the state of legal hiring.

*unless my "86" entries is limited bc I'll be a 3l

I feel your pain.

[Hipster but Athletic]

There's just no way it's possible for anyone to exceed 32 bids this year. At least not by enough that it matters. This is a sad indication of the state of legal hiring.

*unless my "86" entries is limited bc I'll be a 3l

When I 3L'd it I was only limited to 3L firms. What you see isn't the whole thing.

Oh ya. This is correct. There's employers under the special request thing that don't show up for me.

[POTUS2044]

Hey, does anyone have any idea how many bids SFIPLA gives you? Trying to mesh SFIPLA and Loyola bids together. SFIPLA bidding doesn't open until Loyola is just about closed.

As of right now, it says it allows 50 bids (but doesn't list the employers on that page). I can't believe that's the real # though, since it's only 1 day and there's only like 50 employers listed (on the employer page)

[Anonymous User]

Hey, does anyone have any idea how many bids SFIPLA gives you? Trying to mesh SFIPLA and Loyola bids together. SFIPLA bidding doesn't open until Loyola is just about closed.

As of right now, it says it allows 50 bids (but doesn't list the employers on that page). I can't believe that's the real # though, since it's only 1 day and there's only like 50 employers listed (on the employer page)

SFIPLA is unlimited; however, IIRC, last year there were only like 15 firms (give or take)

[POTUS2044]

Hey, does anyone have any idea how many bids SFIPLA gives you? Trying to mesh SFIPLA and Loyola bids together. SFIPLA bidding doesn't open until Loyola is just about closed.

As of right now, it says it allows 50 bids (but doesn't list the employers on that page). I can't believe that's the real # though, since it's only 1 day and there's only like 50 employers listed (on the employer page)

SFIPLA is unlimited; however, IIRC, last year there were only like 15 firms (give or take)

Are the firms listed under "Employers" currently not the firms that will be participating?

Here is what SFIPLA symplicity currently lists under the employer tab, minus a few gov. listings which I removed.

Baker Botts Austin
Baker Botts Houston
Baker Botts NY
Baker Botts SV
Bingham McCutchen LLP SV
Blakely Sokoloff Taylor & Zafman LLP SV
Cooley Godward Kronish LLP SD
Cooley Godward Kronish LLP SV
Dechert LLP Boston
Fenwick & West LLP SV
Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner, LLP SV
Fish & Richardson P.C. SV
Foley & Lardner LLP
Goodwin Procter LLP SF
Goodwin Procter LLP SV
Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villeneuve Franklin & Hachigian, LLP SV
Howrey LLP SF
Jones Day SV
Kenyon & Kenyon LLP NY
Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP ATL
Klarquist Sparkman Portland
Knobbe Martens Olson & Bear, LLP LA
McDermott Will & Emery LLP CHI
McDermott Will & Emery LLP LA
McDermott Will & Emery LLP SV
Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP SV
Morrison & Foerster LLP SF
Norton Rose Fulbright Dallas
Norton Rose Fulbright LA
Oliff & Berridge, PLC Va
O'Melveny & Myers LLP SF
Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP LA
Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP SV
Paul Hastings LLP LA
Perkins Coie LLP SF
Perkins Coie LLP SV
Shay Glenn LLP SV
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP SV
Townsend and Townsend and Crew LLP SF
White & Case SV
WilmerHale SV
Winston & Strawn LLP CHI
Winston & Strawn LLP SF

[skri65]

I have my first semester GPA, but my school does not release class ranks/grade distributions until after the end of the first year. I have my GPA on my resume, but do not provide the curve or any context. Is this unusual? Any suggestions?

[09042014]

I have my first semester GPA, but my school does not release class ranks/grade distributions until after the end of the first year. I have my GPA on my resume, but do not provide the curve or any context. Is this unusual? Any suggestions?

Only TTTs have grade distributions anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Are the firms listed under "Employers" currently not the firms that will be participating?

Here is what SFIPLA symplicity currently lists under the employer tab, minus a few gov. listings which I removed.

Baker Botts Austin
Baker Botts Houston
Baker Botts NY
Baker Botts SV
Bingham McCutchen LLP SV
Blakely Sokoloff Taylor & Zafman LLP SV
Cooley Godward Kronish LLP SD
Cooley Godward Kronish LLP SV
Dechert LLP Boston
Fenwick & West LLP SV
Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner, LLP SV
Fish & Richardson P.C. SV
Foley & Lardner LLP
Goodwin Procter LLP SF
Goodwin Procter LLP SV
Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villeneuve Franklin & Hachigian, LLP SV
Howrey LLP SF
Jones Day SV
Kenyon & Kenyon LLP NY
Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP ATL
Klarquist Sparkman Portland
Knobbe Martens Olson & Bear, LLP LA
McDermott Will & Emery LLP CHI
McDermott Will & Emery LLP LA
McDermott Will & Emery LLP SV
Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP SV
Morrison & Foerster LLP SF
Norton Rose Fulbright Dallas
Norton Rose Fulbright LA
Oliff & Berridge, PLC Va
O'Melveny & Myers LLP SF
Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP LA
Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP SV
Paul Hastings LLP LA
Perkins Coie LLP SF
Perkins Coie LLP SV
Shay Glenn LLP SV
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP SV
Townsend and Townsend and Crew LLP SF
White & Case SV
WilmerHale SV
Winston & Strawn LLP CHI
Winston & Strawn LLP SF

No, that is a list of all the firms that have participated through the years... Townsend Townsend merged w/ Kilpatrick Stockton a few years back, renamed as Kilpatrick Townsend Stockton... also, Howrey doesn't exist anymore

This is the list from 2013:
OMM
Orrick
Foley
MWE
Baker Botts
Kenyon
Knobbe
MoFo
Perkins
Morgan Lewis
Kilpatrick
Dechert
Blakely Sokoloff
Klarquist

Most of these were for SF, SV, PA, LA or other CA offices, with spattering of PNW offices. One or two firms were looking outside CA but that's it.

[Anonymous User]

No, that is a list of all the firms that have participated through the years... Townsend Townsend merged w/ Kilpatrick Stockton a few years back, renamed as Kilpatrick Townsend Stockton... also, Howrey doesn't exist anymore

This is the list from 2013:
OMM
Orrick
Foley
MWE
Baker Botts
Kenyon
Knobbe
MoFo
Perkins
Morgan Lewis
Kilpatrick
Dechert
Blakely Sokoloff
Klarquist

Most of these were for SF, SV, PA, LA or other CA offices, with spattering of PNW offices. One or two firms were looking outside CA but that's it.

So that's it, only 12 firms? Seriously beginning to question if I even want to make the trip all the way to the west coast from NY.

[Anonymous User]

Also, any recommendation on how to list that you intend to taking the Patent Bar this summer (prior to PLIP, of course)?
Would something like this below my name and address work?:
Patent Bar Eligible - Anticipated USPTO Registration Examination: July 2014

Also want a sanity check, I'm planning on taking the Patent Bar this summer (Working too). That's totally do-able too?
No patent experience, just planning on taking a prep course. Any recommendations? (Heard good things about PLI despite its price-tag).

Thanks.

I took the patent bar and passed a month ago. I studied for 20hrs/week for 4 months. It was definitely overkill, but I wanted to make sure I had everything memorized, including all AIA changes and every question ever asked that's available. I only recognized maybe 20% of the questions as repeat, so you definitely need to know all the critical MPEP material. I think I got around 95% right so my 4 months of studying certainly wasn't necessary. I think 2 months is minimal if you really work hard. I did OmniPrep (it's okay) but PatBar also has a promotion running for their $895 program at $495 (same as OmniPrep) and I'd say PatBar seems better. My biggest advice is that whatever program or material you use, be sure to get a good MPEP summary (usually at least 200-300 pages to cover everything, including AIA) and read it at least 5 times to make sure you have everything down. This was essential for my passing together with memorizing past Qs/As, including those for free on the USPTO site. PLI is really good but way too expensive.

Awesome, thanks for the info. But 320 hours of studying is absurd (And I'm hoping that wasn't while in law school - otherwise I've definitely been slacking). And when you reference a "good MPEP summary" - can you give a recommendation?

Thanks.

[lhanvt13]

%cutoff is absolute: yes? JEnner has a 15% cutoff

[Jport333]

%cutoff is absolute: yes? JEnner has a 15% cutoff

I've heard anecdotally the Cutoff% is not absolute. You may not want all of your bids to be ones where you don't me the cutoff. But with 32 bids - I think you can take some 'risk.'

[lhanvt13]

%cutoff is absolute: yes? JEnner has a 15% cutoff

I've heard anecdotally the Cutoff% is not absolute. You may not want all of your bids to be ones where you don't me the cutoff. But with 32 bids - I think you can take some 'risk.'

that's what I did so hopefully one bites.

[Anonymous User]

In an effort to assuage the anxieties associated with bidding PLIP, I would like to call attention to something that, while not entirely relevant at the present time, is a critical component to PLIP, and is tangentially related to both receiving pre-selects and not receiving pre-selects.

Hospitality suites are critical. Remember: these firms may not be able to interview everyone they would like to interview on account of time and space. That said, it is entirely possible to not get selected or to not even bid a firm and still end up with a CB via the hospitality suite game. You will be able to drop off resumes, show genuine interest, and speak with partners, associates, and head legal recruiters.

Here is a list of the hospitality suites from last year that I can recall:
SKGF
Foley
Jones, Day, Nights, & Weekends
Alston Bird
Frommer (?)
Desmarais
Goodwin
Kilpatrick
Latham
Cooley
WSGR
Various Pat Pros Boutiques that I did not visit
Winston Strawn
Nixon. Peabody
MWE
Fish
Finnegan

There are probably more than this, however, it should give you an idea that you can still make connections there. Also, I went to Starbucks across the street last year and some Quinn attorneys were in line in front of me. We chatted it up then they asked it I had a résumé with me... YNK what can happen at PLIP, especially through making good connections outside of a 20 minute screener.

Eta: oh yeah, the hospitality suite swag is noyce

[Anonymous User]

Looking for anyone to tell me why my bidlist is stupid. Relevant facts: Molecular Biology PhD from school with a T10 brand name. T20 law school, slightly above median 1st semester. Thinking I would prefer to do biotech/pharma pros and/or transactional/licensing work with the same. Much less so litigation. Family/undergrad/grad school/law school ties are not in big biotech IP markets, or well represented at PLIP. Prefer San Diego(sun and fish tacos) or DC(Gubmint) geographically to NYC($$$) or Chicago(cold/homicide). Also a soft spot in heart for RTP region in NC. No USPTO #, but am planning on having that taken care of before PLIP.

Here we go:
Akin (Phila)
Alston (RTP)
Andrews Kurth (DC)
Axinn (Firmwide)
Baker Botts (?)
Banner Witcoff (DC)
Brinks, Gilson and Leone (Firmwide)
Cooley (San Diego)
Covington (CA)
Finnegan
Fish (sD)
Foley (Biotech Patent Pros)
Goody Proctor (Boston)
Greenberg Traurig (NYC)
Jones Day (SD)
Kilpatrick Townsend (Health and Life Sciences)
Kirkland and Ellis (DC)
Knobbe (Firmwide)
Latham (Tech transactional)
Leydig (Chicago)
McDonnell (Chem/Bio)
Morris (Wilmington)
MoFo (Pat Pros)
Nutter(Firmwide)
Paul Hastings (Chicago)
Rothwell Figg (DC)
SheppardMullin
Sidley (DC)
Skadden (IP Transactional)
Sterne Kessler (Biotech)
Wilson Sonsoni (SD)
Wolf Greenfield (Boston)

[Anonymous User]

I understand Quinn does not require a tech degree, but do they prefer it?

Like would a EE (but lower GPA) UG degree be a plus for them versus typical liberal arts degree?

[Anonymous User]

Looking for anyone to tell me why my bidlist is stupid. Relevant facts: Molecular Biology PhD from school with a T10 brand name. T20 law school, slightly above median 1st semester. Thinking I would prefer to do biotech/pharma pros and/or transactional/licensing work with the same. Much less so litigation. Family/undergrad/grad school/law school ties are not in big biotech IP markets, or well represented at PLIP. Prefer San Diego(sun and fish tacos) or DC(Gubmint) geographically to NYC($$$) or Chicago(cold/homicide). Also a soft spot in heart for RTP region in NC. No USPTO #, but am planning on having that taken care of before PLIP.

Here we go:
Akin (Phila)
Alston (RTP)
Andrews Kurth (DC)
Axinn (Firmwide)
Baker Botts (?)
Banner Witcoff (DC)
Brinks, Gilson and Leone (Firmwide)
Cooley (San Diego)
Covington (CA)
Finnegan
Fish (sD)
Foley (Biotech Patent Pros)
Goody Proctor (Boston)
Greenberg Traurig (NYC)
Jones Day (SD)
Kilpatrick Townsend (Health and Life Sciences)
Kirkland and Ellis (DC)
Knobbe (Firmwide)
Latham (Tech transactional)
Leydig (Chicago)
McDonnell (Chem/Bio)
Morris (Wilmington)
MoFo (Pat Pros)
Nutter(Firmwide)
Paul Hastings (Chicago)
Rothwell Figg (DC)
SheppardMullin
Sidley (DC)
Skadden (IP Transactional)
Sterne Kessler (Biotech)
Wilson Sonsoni (SD)
Wolf Greenfield (Boston)

I think that you will have better luck with Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto), Kilpatrick Townsend (SF), Foley, and Knobbe. The first three prefer to have Ph.D. candidates. Good luck.

P.S. You'd better pay attention to your spellings. Some of the firm's names were spelled wrong. You are going to be judged in every possible way for your potential to be a pay-attention-to-detail type of patent attorney.

[Anonymous User]

I'm an IP associate in Paul Hastings NY office. I'm not sure why our Chicago office is listed. We don't really do any ip work there. I'm not sure I would bid there. And I'm a pretty big Paul Hastings booster.