HLS 2012 EIP Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Do firms ever ask for references from our 1L summer employers?

I don't think so. I know at least one firm that says they call two references you provide, but it does not specify that the reference need be your 1L employer.

[Anonymous User]

Okay, so I submitted my bid list today, and it's below. I am bidding NY and Bos. with median grades. I would love if some 3Ls and more experience folk could chime in. Some things that concern me are that I don't want to interview in more than one office of the same firm, since it shows a lack of commitment.

That said, here are some questions.

1. K&L Gates is interviewing 20 people for six offices. Is that a way of saying that they're not hiring? Should I waste a bid on them since they seem to be a reasonable target, or should I spend a bid elsewhere?

2. As I said above, I generally chose the Bos. location when there were separate interviews. I prefer Boston. Do I lose if I check NY as a second choice on the ones that allow choices? Am I better off saying that I only have one choice and it's Boston?

3. I bid on Skadden in NY and Bos, because, well, I couldn't resist. Should I undo that?

4. I based the order completely on likelihood of getting an interview. But it burned to fill in some firms I really liked at such low bids. Should I rank them higher, or should I rely on the fact that in the past, they've interviewed everybody anyway?

Here's the list:


1 Allen & Overy New York
2 Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky and Popeo Boston
3 Chadbourne & Parke New York
4 K&L Gates Boston
5 Shearman & Sterling New York
6 Dechert Boston
7 Cahill Gordon & Reindel New York
8 Latham & Watkins Boston
9 mayer brown llp New York
10 Choate, Hall & Stewart Boston
11 Schulte Roth & Zabel New York
12 Brown Rudnick Boston
13 Katten Muchin Rosenman New York
14 Jones Day Boston
15 Kirkland & Ellis New York
16 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom Boston
17 Debevoise
18 WilmerHale Boston
19 proskauer
20 Goodwin Procter Boston
21 Kramer, Levin, Naftalis & Frankel New York
22 Goulston & Storrs Boston
23 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher New York
24 foley hoag Boston
25 Kaye Scholer New York
26 Foley & Lardner Boston
27 Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson New York
28 Bingham McCutchen Boston
29 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom New York
30 Weil Gotshal & Manges Boston
31 Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy New York
32 Ropes & Gray Boston
33 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft New York
34 Davis Polk & Wardwell New York
35 Boies Schiller & Flexner New York - Corporate

Thanks in advance

Justice Homes

[GertrudePerkins]

Some things that concern me are that I don't want to interview in more than one office of the same firm, since it shows a lack of commitment.

Do you have reasonable Boston ties? I.e., something more than just going to HLS? Anyway, I sort of think you're overthinking this point. I'll admit my sample size is very limited, but I interviewed with WilmerHale Boston and DC last year and neither seemed to give a shit. My ties were stronger to Boston than DC, so one would've thought the "lack of commitment" thing would've cut against me more there, but I got an offer from DC (ultimately didn't take callback with Boston).

Other 3Ls have any evidence that firms infer "lack of commitment" from interviewing with multiple offices? Maybe, but it wouldn't surprise me if they don't even notice or care, especially if you signal in other ways that you're genuinely interested in that market.

[Anonymous User]

Some things that concern me are that I don't want to interview in more than one office of the same firm, since it shows a lack of commitment.

Do you have reasonable Boston ties? I.e., something more than just going to HLS? Anyway, I sort of think you're overthinking this point. I'll admit my sample size is very limited, but I interviewed with WilmerHale Boston and DC last year and neither seemed to give a shit. My ties were stronger to Boston than DC, so one would've thought the "lack of commitment" thing would've cut against me more there, but I got an offer from DC (ultimately didn't take callback with Boston).

Other 3Ls have any evidence that firms infer "lack of commitment" from interviewing with multiple offices? Maybe, but it wouldn't surprise me if they don't even notice or care, especially if you signal in other ways that you're genuinely interested in that market.

Thank you for chiming in. If there are any other 3/4Ls reading I'd appreciate if you could also weigh in. (Paging Geepee).

I do have some ties to Boston, or at least a compelling story about why I want to stay. But don't you think that saying, "I really really want to stay in Boston at all costs, oh by the way I also bid on the NY office" is a bad move?

What did you think about putting top choice firms low on the list if they interviewed all their bids? It makes me nervous, but it makes logical sense. Also, what do you think about firms like KL Gates who are interviewing tiny numbers of people for multiple offices? Inherently not worth a bid, or awesome odds?

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, I did screeners and CB's in two K&E offices last year. They did ask me where else I was interviewing, I let them know I was interviewing in both offices, and they didn't seem to care at all. Generally, if a firm allows you to do multiple interviews for different offices (as opposed to having you pick the office you're most interested in), it indicates that they don't care about this issue.

[GertrudePerkins]

I do have some ties to Boston, or at least a compelling story about why I want to stay. But don't you think that saying, "I really really want to stay in Boston at all costs, oh by the way I also bid on the NY office" is a bad move?

But this problem, if it is one, is already presented by the fact that you're bidding any NYC firms, right? Many firms asked me generally which markets I was bidding on, and I wouldn't recommend lying and claiming that you're only bidding Boston. Once they know you're looking at some NYC firms, I don't see why they'd be more upset by your looking at their NYC office.

[Anonymous User]

I do have some ties to Boston, or at least a compelling story about why I want to stay. But don't you think that saying, "I really really want to stay in Boston at all costs, oh by the way I also bid on the NY office" is a bad move?

But this problem, if it is one, is already presented by the fact that you're bidding any NYC firms, right? Many firms asked me generally which markets I was bidding on, and I wouldn't recommend lying and claiming that you're only bidding Boston. Once they know you're looking at some NYC firms, I don't see why they'd be more upset by your looking at their NYC office.

Besides what GertrudePerkins said, there's a very important lesson here: it does not help you to overstate how committed you are to a particular geographic region. If you are not going all-in on Boston, you should not claim that you want to stay in Boston at all costs. Fortunately, you don't need to say this. You can honestly say "I'd prefer to stay in Boston (for whatever reason), but I'm also looking at offices in New York." They'll understand, especially if you have a credible story for why you want to be in Boston or can rattle off other Boston firms you're interviewing with.

[Anonymous User]

I do have some ties to Boston, or at least a compelling story about why I want to stay. But don't you think that saying, "I really really want to stay in Boston at all costs, oh by the way I also bid on the NY office" is a bad move?

But this problem, if it is one, is already presented by the fact that you're bidding any NYC firms, right? Many firms asked me generally which markets I was bidding on, and I wouldn't recommend lying and claiming that you're only bidding Boston. Once they know you're looking at some NYC firms, I don't see why they'd be more upset by your looking at their NYC office.

Besides what GertrudePerkins said, there's a very important lesson here: it does not help you to overstate how committed you are to a particular geographic region. If you are not going all-in on Boston, you should not claim that you want to stay in Boston at all costs. Fortunately, you don't need to say this. You can honestly say "I'd prefer to stay in Boston (for whatever reason), but I'm also looking at offices in New York." They'll understand, especially if you have a credible story for why you want to be in Boston or can rattle off other Boston firms you're interviewing with.

Hmmm. Now I'm tempted to replace some of my weaker NY bids with firms that have offices in Boston.
Justice Homes

[Anonymous User]

I do have some ties to Boston, or at least a compelling story about why I want to stay. But don't you think that saying, "I really really want to stay in Boston at all costs, oh by the way I also bid on the NY office" is a bad move?

You have 35 bids, and there are just 25-ish Boston firms at EIP.
I don't think any firm will hold it against you for throwing that last handful of bids at a second-choice market.

And if that logic doesn't hold, you can always get down on your knees in the interview and plead with them, "Please don't make me go to NY!" That's my plan.

[GeePee]

I do have some ties to Boston, or at least a compelling story about why I want to stay. But don't you think that saying, "I really really want to stay in Boston at all costs, oh by the way I also bid on the NY office" is a bad move?

You have 35 bids, and there are just 25-ish Boston firms at EIP.
I don't think any firm will hold it against you for throwing that last handful of bids at a second-choice market.

And if that logic doesn't hold, you can always get down on your knees in the interview and plead with them, "Please don't make me go to NY!" That's my plan.

I think if you explain to an interviewer that you exhausted the EIP offerings for Boston, and then moved onto the next closest legal market to fill your bidlist, no one could hold that against you. Proceed without hesitation.

[Anonymous User]

4. I based the order completely on likelihood of getting an interview. But it burned to fill in some firms I really liked at such low bids. Should I rank them higher, or should I rely on the fact that in the past, they've interviewed everybody anyway?

I'm also curious to know what people think about this. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on this list? Top 10-15%, LR, want lit.

1. Arnold & Porter (DC)
2. WilmerHale (DC)
3. hogan lovells (DC)
4. Gibson Dunn (DC)
5. Akin Gump (DC)
6. Williams & Connolly (DC)
7. Jenner & Block (DC)
8. Mayer Brown (DC)
9. Covington & Burling (DC)
10. Debevoise & Plimpton (NY)
11. Jones Day (DC)
12. Sullivan & Cromwell (NY)
13. White & Case (DC)
14. Latham & Watkins (DC)
15. Morrison & Foerster (DC)
16. Keker & Van Nest (SF)
17. Kirkland & Ellis (DC)
18. Freshfields (NY)
19. Sidley Austin (DC)
20. Cleary Gottlieb (NY)
21. Davis Polk (NY)
23. Paul Weiss (NY)
24. Cleary Gottlieb (DC)
25. Boies Schiller (DC)
26. Skadden (NY)
27. Skadden (DC)
28. Crowell & Moring (DC)
29. Steptoe & Johnson (DC)
30. Weil Gotshal (NY)
31. Hughes Hubbard (DC)
32. Baker Botts (DC)
33. Ropes Gray (DC)
34. Fried Frank (DC)
35. Shearman & Sterling (NY)

[GertrudePerkins]

Thoughts on this list? Top 10-15%, LR, want lit.

1. Arnold & Porter (DC)
2. WilmerHale (DC)
3. Hogan Lovells (DC)
***

Unless you're not much of an interviewer, with those stats you're going to get many callbacks (even in DC) and offers, so I kind of think it's crazy to use all 35 of your bids. I had similar stats and did ~18 screeners and even then by the end of the week I was doing screeners with firms I knew unequivocally I would not take a callback with. Are you actually interested in NYC, or just throwing those in as a backup? If you're actually interested, go for it. But generally, I would recommend doing ~15 screeners with the firms you're most interested in.

If this seems like crazy advice that you're disinclined to take from some rando on TLS -- a quite reasonable stance -- I would highly encourage you to reach out to the HLR people who worked in DC this summer.

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on the following bid list? Transfer here. I didn't fully do the traditional "rank by percentage of interviews granted last year" strategy because of location and practice area. Not sure if this is too ambitious. Any thoughts appreciated!

1 Gibson (LA)
2 O’Mel (CC)
3 Sheppard (LA)
4 Munger (LA)
5 Irell (LA)
6 Akin (LA)
7 Mitchell (LA)
8 Shearman
9 Hogan
10 Weil
11 Debevoise
12 Skaaden
13 Cravath
14 Paul Weiss
15 Davis Polk
16 Greenberg
17 Kirkland
18 Cahill
19 Hughes
20 Covington
21 Sullivan & Cromwell
22 Bryan Cave (LA)
23 Bingham (LA)
24 Latham (LA)
25 Paul Hastings
26 Proskauer
27 Patterson
28 Fried Frank
29 Kramer
30 Schulte
31 Cleary
32 White & Case
33 Simpson
34 Ropes
35 Milbank

- Yoshi

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on the following bid list? Transfer here. I didn't fully do the traditional "rank by percentage of interviews granted last year" strategy because of location and practice area. Not sure if this is too ambitious. Any thoughts appreciated!

1 Gibson (LA)
2 O’Mel (CC)
3 Sheppard (LA)
4 Munger (LA)
5 Irell (LA)
6 Akin (LA)
7 Mitchell (LA)
8 Shearman
9 Hogan
10 Weil
11 Debevoise
12 Skaaden
13 Cravath
14 Paul Weiss
15 Davis Polk
16 Greenberg
17 Kirkland
18 Cahill
19 Hughes
20 Covington
21 Sullivan & Cromwell
22 Bryan Cave (LA)
23 Bingham (LA)
24 Latham (LA)
25 Paul Hastings
26 Proskauer
27 Patterson
28 Fried Frank
29 Kramer
30 Schulte
31 Cleary
32 White & Case
33 Simpson
34 Ropes
35 Milbank

- Yoshi

Consider moving Munger lower. Everyone who bid them got them last year. They're also extremely selective.

-Johm Daly

[Anonymous User]

Just for curiosity's sake, here's a list of places that the LR members went this summer:

Akin Gump (DC)
Altshuler Berzon (SF)
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Boies (DC)
Cleary (NY)
Covington (DC)
Cravath (NY)
Davis Polk (NY)
Debevoise (NY)
Farella Braun (SF)
Gibson Dunn (DC & SV)
Gunderson Dettmer (SV)
Irell (LA)
Jenner (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Kellogg Huber (DC)
Munger (LA)
Patterson Belknap (NY)
Quinn (SF)
Sidley (DC)
Sullivan & Cromwell (NY)
Wachtell (NY)
Weil (FL)
Williams & Connolly (DC)
WilmerHale (DC & Boston)

(anon b/c I am an SA at one of these firms)

[Anonymous User]

Just for curiosity's sake, here's a list of places that the LR members went this summer:

Akin Gump (DC)
Altshuler Berzon (SF)
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Boies (DC)
Cleary (NY)
Covington (DC)
Cravath (NY)
Davis Polk (NY)
Debevoise (NY)
Farella Braun (SF)
Gibson Dunn (DC & SV)
Gunderson Dettmer (SV)
Irell (LA)
Jenner (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Kellogg Huber (DC)
Munger (LA)
Patterson Belknap (NY)
Quinn (SF)
Sidley (DC)
Sullivan & Cromwell (NY)
Wachtell (NY)
Weil (FL)
Williams & Connolly (DC)
WilmerHale (DC & Boston)

(anon b/c I am an SA at one of these firms)

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

[Anonymous User]

Grades are 1H/9P. Finalizing my bid list.. Already have 10 interviews setup outside of EIP with major firms in Boston and another secondary market (mentioning may out me). Bidding in more than 2 markets or else couldn't fill my list. In addition, to those listed below I am also bidding or already have interviews scheduled with almost every single major firm office in Boston and another secondary market.

How does this look for NYC Targets:
Cahill Gordon (2)
Kaye Scholer (12)
Chadbourne (15)
Schulte Roth (19)
Fried Frank (22)
Milbank (24)
Dechert (28)

And for DC dreaming:
Steptoe Johnson (10)
Fried Frank (17)
Wiley Rein (20)
Cadwalader (21)
Venable (25)

Thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

Grades are 1H/9P. Finalizing my bid list.. Already have 10 interviews setup outside of EIP with major firms in Boston and another secondary market (mentioning may out me). Bidding in more than 2 markets or else couldn't fill my list. In addition, to those listed below I am also bidding or already have interviews scheduled with almost every single major firm office in Boston and another secondary market.

How does this look for NYC Targets:
Cahill Gordon (2)
Kaye Scholer (12)
Chadbourne (15)
Schulte Roth (19)
Fried Frank (22)
Milbank (24)
Dechert (28)

And for DC dreaming:
Steptoe Johnson (10)
Fried Frank (17)
Wiley Rein (20)
Cadwalader (21)
Venable (25)

Thoughts?

I'm only a 2L but I did a lot of research on NY selectivity, including looking at a number of years, talking to OCS several times, and and getting better info from other schools that distribute it. In that light, your NY bids seem well chosen.

How did you get all these interviews outside of OCI? Isn't there some kind of rule about contacting firms that are coming? And don't firms just say, come meet us at OCI?

[Anonymous User]

Grades are 1H/9P. Finalizing my bid list.. Already have 10 interviews setup outside of EIP with major firms in Boston and another secondary market (mentioning may out me). Bidding in more than 2 markets or else couldn't fill my list. In addition, to those listed below I am also bidding or already have interviews scheduled with almost every single major firm office in Boston and another secondary market.

How does this look for NYC Targets:
Cahill Gordon (2)
Kaye Scholer (12)
Chadbourne (15)
Schulte Roth (19)
Fried Frank (22)
Milbank (24)
Dechert (28)

And for DC dreaming:
Steptoe Johnson (10)
Fried Frank (17)
Wiley Rein (20)
Cadwalader (21)
Venable (25)

Thoughts?

I'm only a 2L but I did a lot of research on NY selectivity, including looking at a number of years, talking to OCS several times, and and getting better info from other schools that distribute it. In that light, your NY bids seem well chosen.

How did you get all these interviews outside of OCI? Isn't there some kind of rule about contacting firms that are coming? And don't firms just say, come meet us at OCI?

URM Job Fairs mainly.

[Anonymous User]

anyone know when we get our interview schedules?

[094320]

..

[Anonymous User]

anyone know when we get our interview schedules?

August 2nd at 8AM EST according to the schedule they have online.

Is it like the spring interviewing was where we schedule ourselves anywhere in the day for the firms that we get interviews with? Or does the magical OCS mainframe spit out our schedule, too?

[094320]

..

[Anonymous User]

You will get a schedule, but you can sometimes move around your interview slots on Symplicity if the firm is underbid. Keep in mind that this will sometimes result in getting a different interviewer (for instance, I went from doing a screener with 2 QE associates to doing a screener with an associate and Bill Urquhart after I changed my interview slot).