List of real salaries across different legal markets Forum

[rayiner]

One of the first results on craigslist
--LinkRemoved--

$2,300 for a pretty nice 1 br in the upper east side.

I'd dare to call it luxury

1br, Upper east side, $1,800
--LinkRemoved--

Luxury?! The first one isn't terrible, but bathroom is pretty tiny, and it looks like the bedroom is a loft (how are you going to get a real bed up there?). But 7 years of education, $200k in debt, and billing 2300+ hours a year to live in a triplex without a doorman, pool, gym, etc? That's not luxury.

This is luxury (for $2300): --LinkRemoved--

High rise, 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, marble and granite everything, rooftop deck, gym, and all in the most expensive neighborhood in Chicago.

*That's* how people picture lawyers living.

[rayiner]

My bottom line is this. 0Ls come onto this board, many of them with little life/work experience

Dude. I'm a 3L, SA-ing in NYC, who has lived in the places I'm talking about (I have family in NYC, so trust me, I know the gist of it).

Have you lived in any of the cities you're trashing? Then what the hell do you know?

[aliarrow]

One of the first results on craigslist
--LinkRemoved--

$2,300 for a pretty nice 1 br in the upper east side.

I'd dare to call it luxury

1br, Upper east side, $1,800
--LinkRemoved--

Luxury?! The first one isn't terrible, but bathroom is pretty tiny, and it looks like the bedroom is a loft (how are you going to get a real bed up there?). But 7 years of education, $200k in debt, and billing 2300+ hours a year to live in a triplex without a doorman, pool, gym, etc? That's not luxury.

This is luxury (for $2300): --LinkRemoved--

High rise, 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, marble and granite everything, rooftop deck, gym, and all in the most expensive neighborhood in Chicago.

*That's* how people picture lawyers living.

Yeah that is nice, but I don't think it's expected for 2300 you get you as far in NYC as it would in Chicago.

I come from a very cheap area, but I still think NYC is worth it while you're young. I wouldn't want to start a family or attempt to relax there, but the being at the center of it all seems worth the high price and limited space.

[rayiner]

Yeah that is nice, but I don't think it's expected for 2300 you get you as far in NYC as it would in Chicago.

I come from a very cheap area, but I still think NYC is worth it while you're young. I wouldn't want to start a family or attempt to relax there, but the being at the center of it all seems worth the high price and limited space.

I'm not saying that $2300 should get you as far in NYC as it would in Chicago. I'm pointing out that you cannot live a luxury NYC lifestyle on an NYC biglaw salary, while you can live live at least a semi-lux lifestyle in Chicago on a Chicago biglaw salary.

Also, what exactly do you mean by "young" and "center of it all"? What demographic exactly do you think NYC big lawyers are composed of? 22 y/o's who go out clubbing several nights a week? The people who actually get to enjoy being "in the center of it all" are bar tenders and aspiring models, not lawyers.

What benefit exactly is there from "being in the center of it all" to a late-20s/early-30s nerd who spends most of his life chained to a desk?

[aliarrow]

Yeah that is nice, but I don't think it's expected for 2300 you get you as far in NYC as it would in Chicago.

I come from a very cheap area, but I still think NYC is worth it while you're young. I wouldn't want to start a family or attempt to relax there, but the being at the center of it all seems worth the high price and limited space.

I'm not saying that $2300 should get you as far in NYC as it would in Chicago. I'm pointing out that you cannot live a luxury NYC lifestyle on an NYC biglaw salary, while you can live live at least a semi-lux lifestyle in Chicago on a Chicago biglaw salary.

Also, what exactly do you mean by "young" and "center of it all"? What demographic exactly do you think NYC big lawyers are composed of? 22 y/o's who go out clubbing several nights a week? The people who actually get to enjoy being "in the center of it all" are bar tenders and aspiring models, not lawyers.

What benefit exactly is there from "being in the center of it all" to a late-20s/early-30s nerd who spends most of his life chained to a desk?

Well I'm mainly referring to an urban environment in general, so that statement could apply to Chicago, LA, DC, etc.
But even then New York just has a leg up as being in 'the center of it all' since you're surrounded by important people. The connections you can make there through your career seem unrivaled by any other city.

ETA: I'll admit at this point I don't really know what I'm talking about. I just have that 'New York Fantasy' thats fairly prevalent. It probably isn't too grounded in reality, but let a guy dream.

[BruceWayne]

I'm not saying that $2300 should get you as far in NYC as it would in Chicago. I'm pointing out that you cannot live a luxury NYC lifestyle on an NYC biglaw salary, while you can live live at least a semi-lux lifestyle in Chicago on a Chicago biglaw salary.

Also, what exactly do you mean by "young" and "center of it all"? What demographic exactly do you think NYC big lawyers are composed of? 22 y/o's who go out clubbing several nights a week? The people who actually get to enjoy being "in the center of it all" are bar tenders and aspiring models, not lawyers.

What benefit exactly is there from "being in the center of it all" to a late-20s/early-30s nerd who spends most of his life chained to a desk?

LMAO this chick definitely keeps it real.

[BruceWayne]

Are you talking about median students who aren't from the secondary market they're applying to? That's not even what I'm talking about. Secondary markets DO NOT unanimously prefer people from the local regional schools over people from that region/market who just decided to go off and attend a top 14. Yes if you bid on a secondary market and you're from DC you're probably going to have problems. But that's not what I'm talking about. If you're from Atlanta and go to Duke, you will NOT have a harder time getting a job in Atlanta than an Emory or UGA student. That's just TLS bullshit. Actually if it was true, it would greatly contradict this website's comments that the top 14 are better than lower schools and are "national". It would basically mean that they were only good for working in NYC, and that it's better to go to a local regional school than a top 14 if you don't want to work in NYC (ie UGA> UVA/Duke for Atlanta, UCLA/USC> than Columbia and Michigan for LA, UHouston> Harvard for Houston--all of this assuming the student is from the secondary market).

No, I'm talking about median students, at T14 schools, who are from or have ties to the secondary market they want to return to.

You're asking the wrong question. It's not whether a T14 median student from Los Angeles has a better shot of being hired than a student at a regional LA school. It's whether that median student has a better chance of being hired over other students at his own school, assuming they both have ties to that same market. In my experience, many high-grade students (who would be autoadmits at most NYC firms) understand that CoL/QoL is better in secondary markets and would gladly return to top firms in their home markets over V40 or V20 firms in NYC with sweatshop reputations. Hence, why I would advise a median student at CCN who wants a biglaw job to bid on all NYC firms rather than try to take advantage of less competition in a secondary market because the idea that this market is less competitive is largely a myth.

What going to a regional school also gets you is a guaranteed shot at the firms in that market. A firm in Boston is going to hire BU/BC students. They could probably hire some T14 student if they really wanted to, in fact I bet they could fill their classes with T14 students and no hire any BC/BU students. However, they want to have a certain number of BU/BC students, whereas they don't really mind not getting any students from UVa or Michigan. And if none of the students they callback from UVa or Mich accept, they will just fill those callback slots with more local students.

I think some of this might be specific to the top 14 and the regional market. For CCN, I wouldn't be surprised at all if what you're saying is true. The truth is that NYU really isn't viewed as being this incredible "top 6" school that's better than the rest of the top 10 or even the really strong regionals in certain parts of the country (the South comes to mind in particular) and although Columbia and Chicago have really strong national reps, but they don't really blow out the other top 14 schools in many of the secondary markets. An since none of those 3 schools is located in a secondary market (well UChicago is in Chicago but I mean the other secondaries) I could see what you're saying holding true. But for UVA and Duke for example. you get a guaranteed shot at the Southern firms with the added benefit of a substantially stronger reputation than the regionals. I think that Michigan gets a similar boost with Midwestern secondary markets like Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, St. Louis, etc. So in a sense, region comes into play even within the top 14.

[rayiner]

Well I'm mainly referring to an urban environment in general, so that statement could apply to Chicago, LA, DC, etc.

Chicago feels more "urban" to me. Something about living in a skyscraper.

But even then New York just has a leg up as being in 'the center of it all' since you're surrounded by important people. The connections you can make there through your career seem unrivaled by any other city.

Important people drive into Manhattan in their Bentley's from their houses in Connecticut...

If you want to make connections, hang out in DC. Not only are all the politicians there, but representatives of all the big businesses are there lobbying them. Plus, the whole environment is conducive to networking b/c everyone is seeking influence.

[Big Shrimpin]

. . . hang out in DC . . . .

le sigh. here's to hoping that three DC-years can somehow ease the pain of a few (e.g. however long I last) nyc-years.

[Hippononymous]

One of the first results on craigslist
--LinkRemoved--

$2,300 for a pretty nice 1 br in the upper east side.

I'd dare to call it luxury

1br, Upper east side, $1,800
--LinkRemoved--

Luxury?! The first one isn't terrible, but bathroom is pretty tiny, and it looks like the bedroom is a loft (how are you going to get a real bed up there?). But 7 years of education, $200k in debt, and billing 2300+ hours a year to live in a triplex without a doorman, pool, gym, etc? That's not luxury.

This is luxury (for $2300): --LinkRemoved--

High rise, 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, marble and granite everything, rooftop deck, gym, and all in the most expensive neighborhood in Chicago.

*That's* how people picture lawyers living.

A DOUBLE SINK in the kitchen?!? *gasp* Blasphemy!!!

Oh, and +1.

[rayiner]

One of the first results on craigslist
--LinkRemoved--

$2,300 for a pretty nice 1 br in the upper east side.

I'd dare to call it luxury

1br, Upper east side, $1,800
--LinkRemoved--

Luxury?! The first one isn't terrible, but bathroom is pretty tiny, and it looks like the bedroom is a loft (how are you going to get a real bed up there?). But 7 years of education, $200k in debt, and billing 2300+ hours a year to live in a triplex without a doorman, pool, gym, etc? That's not luxury.

This is luxury (for $2300): --LinkRemoved--

High rise, 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, marble and granite everything, rooftop deck, gym, and all in the most expensive neighborhood in Chicago.

*That's* how people picture lawyers living.

A DOUBLE SINK in the kitchen?!? *gasp* Blasphemy!!!

Oh, and +1.

More NYLULZ.

1) I contacted a chick about an apartment in Morningside. I got asked: "But before we get to that...we've got to ask if you have/have had bed bugs in the last 6 months (we want to avoid that situation at all costs!)?" I was going to make more of a point about how I'm from out of town and have never even heard of someone with bedbugs, but I want the apartment, so I just said no.

2) Note the car on the left for scale:

[nealric]

What benefit exactly is there from "being in the center of it all" to a late-20s/early-30s nerd who spends most of his life chained to a desk?

I work in NYC biglaw. While I can't always take advantage of everything the city has to offer, I do get to enjoy a lot of aspects of NYC that are pretty unique. I've had many of opportunities to see art I wouldn't otherwise get to see, broadway shows, concerts at Carnegie hall. I'm not really a club/bar type person, but there are bars and restaurants for every conceivable taste one might have.

I understand that I make a lot less than I would in other cities in real dollars, but I like my firm and I'm happy where I am. One other point: It's usually much easier to go from NYC biglaw to biglaw in another city or a non-biglaw job in another city. If you want to try the NYC thing, doing it your twenties is the way to do it.

[Big Shrimpin]

. . . It's usually much easier to go from NYC biglaw to biglaw in another city or a non-biglaw job in another city. If you want to try the NYC thing, doing it your twenties is the way to do it.

Ugh, I hope so.

[Anonymous User]

. . . It's usually much easier to go from NYC biglaw to biglaw in another city or a non-biglaw job in another city. If you want to try the NYC thing, doing it your twenties is the way to do it.

Ugh, I hope so.

So I know this thread is old, but it seems highly pertinent on a continuing basis.

For the above statement in particular, how true is it that transitioning from NYC biglaw (a V10, but I'll be in lit) to a smaller legal market is easier than doing the reverse?

If there's any chance I'd want to return to NYC, should I not leave NYC until I'm certain, even if I prefer the other city now?

FWIW, the other city is a difficult market to enter, so I kind of want to make the move now while I have the chance, but I'd have second thoughts if it were difficult to regain an NYC job of the same status in the off chance I want to return.

[sunynp]

Did anyone else see the article about median salaries from NALP and ATL today? The salary mean seems to be going down and NYC seems to be one of the few places that is still at $160,000. (of course after taxes take home is still less in NYC then other markets.)

I think the median is now $145,000. NALP says that median was last seen in 2007

http://abovethelaw.com/tag/associate-salaries/

http://www.nalp.org/2012_associate_salaries

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... nalp_says/

[rayiner]

I saw it... but which firms are these? Chicago had a few drop to $145k (MWE and Schiff) but they're back up.

[sunynp]

I saw it... but which firms are these? Chicago had a few drop to $145k (MWE and Schiff) but they're back up.

I think you have to buy the entire report to get the names of the firms? I couldn't think of any firms below $160,000, but I only know about NYC.