School OCI Data Forum

[Bosque]

Because it is sabotage. Of COURSE those jobs hire almost entirely from OCI, and of course you should try and do your best to get a job through OCI. But what happens if, god forbid, you don't get one of those? You should just give up on getting a legal job? Don't be absurd.

Sabotage? Give me a break. If you are in the top 10% of the class at CLS your efforts at this juncture, in my opinion, are much better spent on not striking out at OCI. There are people for whom plan B is unlikely enough to be necessary to allow it to distract from plan A.

To be clear: I'm suggesting that for dozens if not hundreds of law students, focusing 100% on OCI is a smart move right now. For basically all of the rest, focusing to OCI on the exclusion of other positions could be disastrous. If, as will undoubtedly happen to at least a small percentage of those who have the best odds, OCI does not pan out, of course alternatives should be planned. But this is top-law-schools.com, and I don't think it should come across as shocking or revolutionary to say that for many people relying on OCI is still a perfectly fine life choice.

As to why it's anonymous, I've discussed my posture on this forum with the mods. I'll bow out of this particular conversation now if it makes you uncomfortable, as I don't want to cause a disruption. But I'm happy to send you a PM if you'd like to discuss it further one on one.

Which would be a valid point, except that it takes maybe 2 hours tops to crank out a few simple cover letters and attach copies of your resume. It takes 10 minutes to submit your resume to some of the resume collects. A few hours one Saturday out of your summer doing a tiny bit of work looking for jobs outside of OCI is not going to screw with your chances of landing a job at the program. You should be just as prepared.

I think you and I have different definitions of "rely". You are thinking of pouring hours of effort into these other avenues, so much that it might distract you from the on campus process. That is not what I am trying to say at all. I am not suggesting that the people you are talking about do ALL of those things I listed as alternatives, or even most of them. Hell, I am not even suggesting the people at median do that. That would be overkill, which I think is what you are trying to get at.

All I am suggesting is that even the top ranked students should not go into the program thinking that OCI is the end all be all of legal employment and that there is no other option. It requires little to zero effort to just send out one or two letters, so you should. Just in case. When it takes so little effort to begin the seeds of a contingency plan, you would have to be a fool not to do it.

P.S - I of course was speaking in hyperbole when I said sabotage. I really don't care if you are anonymous, it was just an effective way to begin my point. Your anonymity is between you and the mods.

[Anonymous User]

Because it is sabotage. Of COURSE those jobs hire almost entirely from OCI, and of course you should try and do your best to get a job through OCI. But what happens if, god forbid, you don't get one of those? You should just give up on getting a legal job? Don't be absurd.

Sabotage? Give me a break. If you are in the top 10% of the class at CLS your efforts at this juncture, in my opinion, are much better spent on not striking out at OCI. There are people for whom plan B is unlikely enough to be necessary to allow it to distract from plan A.

To be clear: I'm suggesting that for dozens if not hundreds of law students, focusing 100% on OCI is a smart move right now. For basically all of the rest, focusing to OCI on the exclusion of other positions could be disastrous. If, as will undoubtedly happen to at least a small percentage of those who have the best odds, OCI does not pan out, of course alternatives should be planned. But this is top-law-schools.com, and I don't think it should come across as shocking or revolutionary to say that for many people relying on OCI is still a perfectly fine life choice.

As to why it's anonymous, I've discussed my posture on this forum with the mods. I'll bow out of this particular conversation now if it makes you uncomfortable, as I don't want to cause a disruption. But I'm happy to send you a PM if you'd like to discuss it further one on one.

Which would be a valid point, except that it takes maybe 2 hours tops to crank out a few simple cover letters and attach copies of your resume. It takes 10 minutes to submit your resume to some of the resume collects. A few hours one Saturday out of your summer doing a tiny bit of work looking for jobs outside of OCI is not going to screw with your chances of landing a job at the program. You should be just as prepared.

I think you and I have different definitions of "rely". You are thinking of pouring hours of effort into these other avenues, so much that it might distract you from the on campus process. That is not what I am trying to say at all. I am not suggesting that the people you are talking about do ALL of those things I listed as alternatives, or even most of them. Hell, I am not even suggesting the people at median do that. That would be overkill, which I think is what you are trying to get at.

All I am suggesting is that even the top ranked students should not go into the program thinking that OCI is the end all be all of legal employment and that there is no other option. It requires little to zero effort to just send out one or two letters, so you should. Just in case. When it takes so little effort to begin the seeds of a contingency plan, you would have to be a fool not to do it.

P.S - I of course was speaking in hyperbole when I said sabotage. I really don't care if you are anonymous, it was just an effective way to begin my point. Your anonymity is between you and the mods.

Fair enough, I think we're more or less on the same wave length.

[Anonymous User]

Thats pretty bad considering WUSTL has 220 students + 40 transfers

Are you sure you are not just looking at one round? A lot of schools have multiple rounds of OCI on their Symplicity page, and the firms for each can be listed separately.

This. WUSTL has 62 unique employers (about 15 of which are only collecting resumes) listed for the first round of OCI with 2 more rounds of OCI to go. However, the CSO has said that the later rounds will have fewer employers.

*Shudder*

[Anonymous User]

Thats pretty bad considering WUSTL has 220 students + 40 transfers

Are you sure you are not just looking at one round? A lot of schools have multiple rounds of OCI on their Symplicity page, and the firms for each can be listed separately.

This. WUSTL has 62 unique employers (about 15 of which are only collecting resumes) listed for the first round of OCI with 2 more rounds of OCI to go. However, the CSO has said that the later rounds will have fewer employers.

*Shudder*

This does not include off-campus interviews in NY, DC, West Coast, New England and Atlanta, so that number may be higher. also there are 3 more rounds of oci after the first one but i don't know the number of firms coming later (much smaller than 2 though).

[Anonymous User]

Including the off-campus programs its closer to a 100, but those off-campus interviews aren't available to transfers. fyi wustl's class size is more like 260, not 220.

[romothesavior]

Including the off-campus programs its closer to a 100, but those off-campus interviews aren't available to transfers. fyi wustl's class size is more like 260, not 220.

I believe the 64 is only for early interview week. And as noted, WUSTL has a few off-campus interviewing programs.

/trolling and creating my own false hopes

[General Tso]

Including the off-campus programs its closer to a 100, but those off-campus interviews aren't available to transfers. fyi wustl's class size is more like 260, not 220.

they said 220 + 40 transfers = 260

[Anonymous User]

Including the off-campus programs its closer to a 100, but those off-campus interviews aren't available to transfers. fyi wustl's class size is more like 260, not 220.

they said 220 + 40 transfers = 260

No, I mean the 1L class size is like 260 people.

[General Tso]

Including the off-campus programs its closer to a 100, but those off-campus interviews aren't available to transfers. fyi wustl's class size is more like 260, not 220.

they said 220 + 40 transfers = 260

No, I mean the 1L class size is like 260 people.

whats up with all the anonymity in this thread? it's like posting OCI data is sharing top secret info or something

[Anonymous User]

I believe the 64 is only for early interview week, not regular OCI. And as noted, WUSTL has a few off-campus interviewing programs.

/trolling and creating my own false hopes

It is only for early interview week, with 3 more OCI rounds after it (but no info released on them yet).

Also, I would like to take this opportunity to lol @ all the ND > WUSTL trolls that have inhabited this site in the past.

[romothesavior]

Also, I would like to take this opportunity to lol @ all the ND > WUSTL trolls that have inhabited this site in the past.

I want to say +infinity, but I will wait until NLJ data is released in a few years so as to avoid sticking my foot firmly in my mouth.

[edgarderby]

Because having a bunch of St. Louis firms come and not necessarily hire everyone means your school is better? If WUSTL does better now, it's just because the St. Louis legal market is infinitely better than dispersed markets that ND traditionally had and lack of competition among law schools compared to the Ohio/Indiana/Michigan/Illinois area where ND would normally be at its strongest.

If I were like most people on here, I would just lie and say things are great. I notice that hardly any 3Ls were on here after OCI was a complete failure. I don't need to validate myself to people on here, so I'm free to speak in facts. Unless we have objective reports, you can hardly draw conclusions.

But yeah, I would kill to be top dog in a big city law school like WUSTL this year...tier 3 schools are able to at least put some people in with government positions in their respective cities. There are no South Bend jobs. Places like Chicago and Cincinnati with huge ND alumni bases have a devastated economy, even compared to the rest.

[romothesavior]

Because having a bunch of St. Louis firms come and not necessarily hire everyone means your school is better? If WUSTL does better now, it's just because the St. Louis legal market is infinitely better than dispersed markets that ND traditionally had and lack of competition among law schools compared to the Ohio/Indiana/Michigan/Illinois area where ND would normally be at its strongest.

I'm not going to say WUSTL is a better school, but St. Louis isn't even WUSTL's main market, and it is far from a bustling legal metropolis.

[edgarderby]

Because having a bunch of St. Louis firms come and not necessarily hire everyone means your school is better? If WUSTL does better now, it's just because the St. Louis legal market is infinitely better than dispersed markets that ND traditionally had and lack of competition among law schools compared to the Ohio/Indiana/Michigan/Illinois area where ND would normally be at its strongest.

I'm not going to say WUSTL is a better school, but St. Louis isn't even WUSTL's main market, and it is far from a bustling legal metropolis.

I don't think it's the main market either. ND and WUSTL are similar in that they have no single market that is overwhelming. The point is, schools are falling back on their secondary markets, and ND is having trouble competing against local schools. Although WUSTL is also national, it has a much stronger local base in St. Louis to fall back on in bad times. ND has no insurance, it's either boom or bust.

[john158]

Anyone have data on Boston University?

[Xnegd]

Well, thanks for posting then!

Any UC Davis students care to share??

I am interested in this as well.

+1, I'd really liek to know what OCI at Davis is like.

[wiseowl]

I believe the 64 is only for early interview week, not regular OCI. And as noted, WUSTL has a few off-campus interviewing programs.

/trolling and creating my own false hopes

It is only for early interview week, with 3 more OCI rounds after it (but no info released on them yet).

Also, I would like to take this opportunity to lol @ all the ND > WUSTL trolls that have inhabited this site in the past.

giant douche, turd sandwich

[wiseowl]

Because it is sabotage. Of COURSE those jobs hire almost entirely from OCI, and of course you should try and do your best to get a job through OCI. But what happens if, god forbid, you don't get one of those? You should just give up on getting a legal job? Don't be absurd.

Sabotage? Give me a break. If you are in the top 10% of the class at CLS your efforts at this juncture, in my opinion, are much better spent on not striking out at OCI. There are people for whom plan B is unlikely enough to be necessary to allow it to distract from plan A.

To be clear: I'm suggesting that for dozens if not hundreds of law students, focusing 100% on OCI is a smart move right now. For basically all of the rest, focusing to OCI on the exclusion of other positions could be disastrous. If, as will undoubtedly happen to at least a small percentage of those who have the best odds, OCI does not pan out, of course alternatives should be planned. But this is top-law-schools.com, and I don't think it should come across as shocking or revolutionary to say that for many people relying on OCI is still a perfectly fine life choice.

As to why it's anonymous, I've discussed my posture on this forum with the mods. I'll bow out of this particular conversation now if it makes you uncomfortable, as I don't want to cause a disruption. But I'm happy to send you a PM if you'd like to discuss it further one on one.

in other words, this person is a mod.

[XxSpyKEx]

OP Here. I'm counting all rounds (actually, I forgot the last round which only has 2- JAG). So I guess that would bring it up to 79.

Everyone counts by offices. Your school would advertise that as 79 "employers," with each office being an seperate employer. It's weird because often the same interviewer will be interviewing for something like 8 different offices, yet, schools count that as 8 different employers (this is how schools like MVP come up with their advertisement of "700+ employers"). But if you really think about it, it makes sense. The bottom of the NLJ250 are firms that aren't really all that large at all, suggesting there isn't a ton of really large law firms. So realistically even if 180 of those 250 firms come to a school, that's pretty good.

[lawhawk]

BUMP

This thread has some good info. Let's get others to share their school's OCI numbers!

[bwv812]

.

[lovelaw27]

467 offices at Georgetown.

Thanks, nalp from last year shows 483 offices just for law firms at Georgetown. Not a huge difference.

[Anonymous User]

467 offices at Georgetown.

Thanks, nalp from last year shows 483 offices just for law firms at Georgetown. Not a huge difference.

Looking at NALP and actual data, NALP is wrong. Many firms report doing OCI at school ____ w/o actually doing so. I have no idea why, but I'm looking at the numbers. You can't compare data from the school in 2010 to data from NALP in 2009.

[danquayle]

So does this appear to be a Notre Dame thing, or a T28 thing, or what?

I can't imagine why ND would be worse off than anybody else, but maybe I'm missing something?

As I think someone mentioned earlier, its because ND traditionally has a pretty big geographic footprint. Because of its unique nature its essentially the worst quasi national law school. It sends its graduates coast to coast and relies on employers traveling.

This is all great during good economic times, but if you don't want to rely on employers traveling during an economic bust when OCI firms start trimming their list of OCI schools. You certainly don't want to be the worst school on a firm's OCI list. And I guarantee you Notre Dame was often the worst school on many of firm's OCI lists (Barring the stray locals). It shouldn't be insult considering you're probably getting slashed in favor of T-14 schools, but it still hurts.

[Anonymous User]

Boalt has 233 interviewers (including multiple offices) and around 132 unique employers, 20 of which are government or PI.

Guess we have much fewer interviewers than other T14s . . . .