Rutgers-Newark Class of 2012 Forum

[nocalls4jeff]

Thanks to everyone who has been adding useful information to this thread. It helps to hear that others are as enthusiastic about Rutgers-N as myself. This is a great school and the student body adds a lot to the education process. I'll be there this fall and look forward to meeting everyone once classes start.

[phooey182]

hmm they're inviting Scholarship recipients to a meet-n-greet on May 7th at a local law firm. Anyone going? I'd go but traveling from LA to Newark for a dinner is too much work.

Our new Dean seems to have taken a political career path. He clerked for a judge before going right into the state administration. Has he ever defended or represented a client? and i don't mean the 'state' as a client. I mean a person.

[dapoetic1]

Well he was state Attorney General, asst US attorney, did white collar defense in the private sector, and he's argued before the NJ supreme court so I'm sure he knows his way around a brief and a courtroom.
Is there any reason why you think representing a person is better (or worse) than representing "the state"?
In any criminal case the defendant is having charges brought against him/her by the state.

It seems to me he has an extremely well rounded legal background and would be a good fit into Rutgers

Here's a really good link to the dean's bio. I think you'll find that he has a pretty extensive background which includes representing people as clients. hth
http://law.newark.rutgers.edu/home/john ... new-dean-0

[holmesNYC]

Has he ever defended or represented a client? and i don't mean the 'state' as a client. I mean a person.

From the Rutgers bio:

In 2007 Farmer became a founding partner of the law firm Arseneault, Whipple, Farmer, Fassett and Azzarello, LLP in Chatham, NJ. Prior to that, he was a partner in K&L Gates, Newark. He has received the highest peer-reviewed rating from Martindale-Hubbell, and has been named a New Jersey Super Lawyer, one of New York Magazine’s Best Lawyers in the New York area, and one of the Best Lawyers in America.

[spreebone8]

hmm im leaning towards tulane with 25k/yr. someone convince me otherwise! pretty sure i want biglaw in nyc (work at a firm now in nyc) and although rut-n does decent with NLJ-250, it still doesnt get the respect in national rankings and rarely places in nyc. their focus is nj, as a state school. i was def impressed with rut-n and the profs, but didnt love the campus.

[dapoetic1]

hmm im leaning towards tulane with 25k/yr. someone convince me otherwise! pretty sure i want biglaw in nyc (work at a firm now in nyc) and although rut-n does decent with NLJ-250, it still doesnt get the respect in national rankings and rarely places in nyc. their focus is nj, as a state school. i was def impressed with rut-n and the profs, but didnt love the campus.

-It doesn't get the respect because it does very little to purposely move in the rankings which means they want students serious about the school and the education not a magazine.

-Your statment about it's placement in NYC is inaccurate and uninformed. While they do have a large network in NJ that's not the extent of the school by any means.
--If you've ever lived in NJ or NYC or talked to anyone from either you will quickly realize that Newark/JC are considered to be part of the NYC metro (tri-state) area and thus Rutgers is considered like a NYC metro school like Cardozo, Fordham, Brookly, NYLS---except BETTER!

-Don't live on campus. Live in JC or Hoboken which is a 5 min train ride from NYC and thousands/month cheaper.

[spreebone8]

poetic, i think ur drinking a little bit of the rut-n kool-aid. dont say they are on par with BLS and Dozo for NY market. i asked you to convince why rut-n would be better than tulane wth 25k and u didnt even address that- you just came back in rut-n defense-mode. the rankings are mostly statistical so, even though i dont care for them too much, they say a lot about the student body based on stats. ive lived in ny area my whole life and work in biglaw now, and no one puts rut-n on the level of BLS and Dozo, or even Tulane for that matter, prestige-wise and job-wise. pls back up your stats- my pref is def to stay in NJ/NY area so stats that back up rut-n's greatness are welcome by me! im not a hater!

[losjeans]

Why would you go to Tulane in order to work in the NJ/NY market? I'm curious why you think this could be a better choice.

[dapoetic1]

poetic, i think ur drinking a little bit of the rut-n kool-aid. dont say they are on par with BLS and Dozo for NY market. i asked you to convince why rut-n would be better than tulane wth 25k and u didnt even address that- you just came back in rut-n defense-mode. the rankings are mostly statistical so, even though i dont care for them too much, they say a lot about the student body based on stats. ive lived in ny area my whole life and work in biglaw now, and no one puts rut-n on the level of BLS and Dozo, or even Tulane for that matter, prestige-wise and job-wise. pls back up your stats- my pref is def to stay in NJ/NY area so stats that back up rut-n's greatness are welcome by me! im not a hater!

I didn't address Tulane because I have no reason to say anything about a school I know very little about.
I did however address 3 points in your post (that i highlighted) that I thought (in my own opinion) should be something to consider about the school.
I have no reason to be defensive about a school but when your first statement is about rankings that usually leads to other misinformed statements.

Honestly Tulane and Rutgers are two completely different schools. They're both regional so if you said you wanted to stay in Louisianna or the south for that matter I'd wonder why you would even be considering Rutgers.
And I completely disagree that the rankings have anything to do with the student body.

In terms of the quality of education Rutgers provides it's well rounded, theoretical and practical. They provide extensive hands on education and there is a lot of involvement that students get working with professors. Many of the professors are currently working on large projects and great legal work and the students are able to participate.
Rutgers grads do better in terms of clerkships thatn Brookly, NLYS and Dozo grads--that is statistics and you won't find that in US news.

Rutgers' website does a great job of breaking down it's placement statistics so I won't repeat the information. Also despite whatever Rutgers' rank happens to be this year by the leaked ranking on the web (and I'm not disputing them in the least) their placement statistics and salary averages have actually increased this year. Another testament to the fact that the ranking don't take into consideration anything that I deem to be relavant in choosing a law school.

I don't think anyone can convince you to go some place you don't want to go. All you can really do is consider what each school has to offer. I offered up somethings about Rutgers that I think are worth considering if you are seriously undecided. If someone has done extensive research on Tulane I would imagine they would offer up equally helpful opinions.

[losjeans]

ive lived in ny area my whole life and work in biglaw now, and no one puts rut-n on the level of BLS and Dozo, or even Tulane for that matter

Then why consider going to R-N if you've spoken with everyone, and their opinion is that Tulane is better? Dapoetic is trying to help you out and you respond with this kind of garbage? Unreal.

[spreebone8]

my mistake to think a message bored full of gung-ho scarlett knights would be helpful in my decision. poetic, ur second post was indeed a lot more helpful.
Los think what you want. I simply don't want to move my life to NO for 3 yrs if there is a comparable option in the northeast. im on some great wait lists like many others, and my best option right now in the NE is Rut-N. I still don't think that means pple should be publicly spewing that R places like BLS and Dozo for Ny biglaw without backing it up.
im seriously undecided with these 2 right now. have deposits in at both. maybe ill see you guys in class next year.

[losjeans]

Dapoetic is referring to the New York metro area placement chart which shows R-N placement in NLJ firms as higher than BLS and Dozo.

I'm far from a "gung ho Scarlett Knight", as a personal choice the school is right for me. Nothing more, nothing less.

[spreebone8]

yes, i know exactly which chart she was referring to. which is why i said in my original post that the NLJ 250 chart is overinflated for Rut-N with NJ firms. or at least i tried to imply that. whatever dude. i went to ASD at both Tulane and Rut-N, and was impressed by both. Rut-N seems like a good fit for me as well. i'll be at the scholarship dinner on may 7th. if anyone else is going, pm me. thx.

[losjeans]

yes, i know exactly which chart she was referring to.

Then why'd you ask dapoetic to back-up the employment claims? Is anyone else utterly confused by what's being said here? haha. Good luck with your decision, I know it's not easy.

[phooey182]

Interesting article yesterday about a RU-N professor who argued to the court that the Iraq war is unconstitutional.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/0 ... other.html

Remember the Dean said to read! Well, might as well read about Rutgers-related stuff.

[spreebone8]

NLJ 250 chart doesnt necessarily reflect ny big-law. that's all, Los. Nothing to be confused about.

[dapoetic1]

my mistake to think a message bored full of gung-ho scarlett knights would be helpful in my decision. poetic, ur second post was indeed a lot more helpful.
Los think what you want. I simply don't want to move my life to NO for 3 yrs if there is a comparable option in the northeast. im on some great wait lists like many others, and my best option right now in the NE is Rut-N. I still don't think that means pple should be publicly spewing that R places like BLS and Dozo for Ny biglaw without backing it up.
im seriously undecided with these 2 right now. have deposits in at both. maybe ill see you guys in class next year.

--If you've ever lived in NJ or NYC or talked to anyone from either you will quickly realize that Newark/JC are considered to be part of the NYC metro (tri-state) area and thus Rutgers is considered like a NYC metro school like Cardozo, Fordham, Brookly, NYLS---except BETTER!

There's a reason that I said NJ is considered part of the NYC metro area. It's because the chart that counts employment for NLJ250 in NYC to also include northern NJ. There are only a handful of NLJ250 law firms in NJ. Most of the NLJ 250 firms in NJ only have 20-50 people in the office and many of them work in both the NJ and NYC offices of the firm. If you think working for Latham in NJ is not as good because its NJ and not NYC I would implore you to reconsider going to school in NJ altogether. There is a strong likelihood that you may in fact get a job in NJ.

I also said that NJ is part of the NYC metro area and therefore Rutgers was included in the group of NYC schools like Brooklyn, Fordham and NYLS. Meaning it's a Tier 1 school in the NYC metro that is NOT Columbia, Cornell or NYU. The "better" comment is clearly opinion since there is no measure of "better" by any consistent measurement.

Obviously you're not going to get a lot of people giving you great information on Tulane on the "Rutgers Class of 2012" thread. But, I think if you started a thread and posted your option you are more likely to get people on both sides of your argument. But the minute you include that you want to work in NY people are going to immediately wonder why Tulane is even on your short list.

Like losjeans said Rutgers is the right school for me--plain and simple. Maybe after some research you'll discover it's the right school for you or maybe not. But if you have a hard time believing Rutgers will in fact help you get a job in NJ/NY despite what the statistics show then I guess there's really not much else anyone can tell you about the school.

[dapoetic1]

Interesting article yesterday about a RU-N professor who argued to the court that the Iraq war is unconstitutional.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/0 ... other.html

Remember the Dean said to read! Well, might as well read about Rutgers-related stuff.

Yeah this is cool!! I've been reading about it for a little while on the school's website.
Ballsy!! I like it!

[ComingtoNY]

my mistake to think a message bored full of gung-ho scarlett knights would be helpful in my decision. poetic, ur second post was indeed a lot more helpful.
Los think what you want. I simply don't want to move my life to NO for 3 yrs if there is a comparable option in the northeast. im on some great wait lists like many others, and my best option right now in the NE is Rut-N. I still don't think that means pple should be publicly spewing that R places like BLS and Dozo for Ny biglaw without backing it up.
im seriously undecided with these 2 right now. have deposits in at both. maybe ill see you guys in class next year.

--If you've ever lived in NJ or NYC or talked to anyone from either you will quickly realize that Newark/JC are considered to be part of the NYC metro (tri-state) area and thus Rutgers is considered like a NYC metro school like Cardozo, Fordham, Brookly, NYLS---except BETTER!

There's a reason that I said NJ is considered part of the NYC metro area. It's because the chart that counts employment for NLJ250 in NYC to also include northern NJ. There are only a handful of NLJ250 law firms in NJ. Most of the NLJ 250 firms in NJ only have 20-50 people in the office and many of them work in both the NJ and NYC offices of the firm. If you think working for Latham in NJ is not as good because its NJ and not NYC I would implore you to reconsider going to school in NJ altogether. There is a strong likelihood that you may in fact get a job in NJ.

I also said that NJ is part of the NYC metro area and therefore Rutgers was included in the group of NYC schools like Brooklyn, Fordham and NYLS. Meaning it's a Tier 1 school in the NYC metro that is NOT Columbia, Cornell or NYU. The "better" comment is clearly opinion since there is no measure of "better" by any consistent measurement.

Obviously you're not going to get a lot of people giving you great information on Tulane on the "Rutgers Class of 2012" thread. But, I think if you started a thread and posted your option you are more likely to get people on both sides of your argument. But the minute you include that you want to work in NY people are going to immediately wonder why Tulane is even on your short list.

Like losjeans said Rutgers is the right school for me--plain and simple. Maybe after some research you'll discover it's the right school for you or maybe not. But if you have a hard time believing Rutgers will in fact help you get a job in NJ/NY despite what the statistics show then I guess there's really not much else anyone can tell you about the school.

Dude, who the F are you? Are they paying you to be on Rutgers' C*ck like this?
You don't go there yet, you only know what people told you; stop acting like an expert.

Remember, the schools are providing a service (for a hefty fee) to US. If you feel the need to defend a school so strongly, maybe you should rethink the quality of the education you will be getting.

[dapoetic1]

Dude, who the F are you? Are they paying you to be on Rutgers' C*ck like this?
You don't go there yet, you only know what people told you; stop acting like an expert.

Remember, the schools are providing a service (for a hefty fee) to US. If you feel the need to defend a school so strongly, maybe you should rethink the quality of the education you will be getting.

Thanks for you opinion. No I'm not being paid by Rutgers or any other school. The information I've received on the school has come directly from the school, it's staff, and legal professionals in NJ, NY and Chicago. Don't assume I'm some 20 year old kid from undergrad like 90% of the people on here. I do in fact have the ability to do research. I wouldn't buy a car without knowing it was the right car for me nor would I attend a school that isn't the right school for me.

Anybody that comes to a thread specifically designed for it's future students expecting to hear nothing but bad things about the school is on the wrong thread. Most of us on this thread have either committed to attend Rutgers or are leaning in that direction. So we have no reason to be rude, disrespectful and ignorant. If someone wants to know why I've chosen Rutgers the best thing I can do is tell them about the research I've done and why I believe it's a great school. There is a lot of confusion and misconceptions about law school floating around this website. Most of it is exacerbated by the overreliance on the USNews ranking and people not doing research on a more personal level.

If you have a problem with the fact that I'm confident that I've chosen the right school for me then I suggest you ignore anything I have to say. I find it interesting that you think somehow that you're actually ready to attend a professional school with other grown ups. Your comments are childish and irrelevant. If I felt like was going to get a piss poor education I wouldn't be choosing this school. As it stands I have evaluated the quality of education I plan on receiving and my choice has remained. I wish you well on your legal education.

[ComingtoNY]

If I felt like was going to get a piss poor education I wouldn't be choosing this school. As it stands I have evaluated the quality of education I plan on receiving and my choice has remained.

I don't doubt that you made an informed decision. I also didn't question your maturity level.

I did, however, question you cheerleader mentality and behavior. You're over-preaching the virtues of something you have yet to experience. Talk about arrogance. Clearly your research qualifies you to re-rate the schools, and defend Rutger's reputation.

There's no need to get offense (as you have over several posts) to honest criticism and concern.

Thanks for your "you're not good enough for this game" attitude. It reflects well on your overall attempt to exude maturity. Unfortunately your overcompensation reeks of poor confidence.

You can be pro-Rutgers without being a pompous know-it-all elitist.

[dapoetic1]

If I felt like was going to get a piss poor education I wouldn't be choosing this school. As it stands I have evaluated the quality of education I plan on receiving and my choice has remained.

I don't doubt that you made an informed decision. I also didn't question your maturity level.

I did, however, question you cheerleader mentality and behavior. You're over-preaching the virtues of something you have yet to experience. Talk about arrogance. Clearly your research qualifies you to re-rate the schools, and defend Rutger's reputation.

There's no need to get offense (as you have over several posts) to honest criticism and concern.

Thanks for your "you're not good enough for this game" attitude. It reflects well on your overall attempt to exude maturity. Unfortunately your overcompensation reeks of poor confidence.

You can be pro-Rutgers without being a pompous know-it-all elitist.

Dude, who the F are you? Are they paying you to be on Rutgers' C*ck like this?

This was the first statement you made regarding my "cheerleading" so yes I did in fact attack your maturity. In my opinion this alone showed that you lacked quite a bit of it.
I have no need to overcompensate, but when people make statements that are based purely on arbitrary rankings about any school or misunderstand how the employment graphs about law school and employment are used then that warrants clarification. Various posters have come on this thread asking why they should choose Rutgers. It would do them no good if all they heard were reasons not to choose the schools. I'm not here to make a decision for anyone. And I qualify all of my post with the words "in my opinion" when it is in fact opinion. Or by telling them that I believe law school is a personal choice which it is, and that I've chosen Rutgers after researching the school and realizing it provides exactly what I need out of a law school. If that's cheerleading then hand over the pom-pons.
I have no reason to bash this school or any school.
I don't have to have attended Rutgers to know how to read a graph or chart. I also understand how to take any type of statistical information for what it's worth and examine the source. Most of what I posted about Rutgers is just common knowledge about the school. There are a number of prospective students that don't realize Rutgers (because of it's location) is considered a NYC metro school. They also don't realize that on those very popular NLJ 250 charts that list NYC employment NJ law offices are also included in that. If you read my post you'd realize that's all I said.
Anything else I said positive about the school was based on my own experience.

If you have a problem with anything I'm saying about he school then take it with a grain of salt, and feel free to add your own opinion. But don't start off a sentence with profanity and ignorance and expect me to think that you are not a reflection of those statements any more than you judge me by my post.

[ComingtoNY]

If I felt like was going to get a piss poor education I wouldn't be choosing this school. As it stands I have evaluated the quality of education I plan on receiving and my choice has remained.

I don't doubt that you made an informed decision. I also didn't question your maturity level.

I did, however, question you cheerleader mentality and behavior. You're over-preaching the virtues of something you have yet to experience. Talk about arrogance. Clearly your research qualifies you to re-rate the schools, and defend Rutger's reputation.

There's no need to get offense (as you have over several posts) to honest criticism and concern.

Thanks for your "you're not good enough for this game" attitude. It reflects well on your overall attempt to exude maturity. Unfortunately your overcompensation reeks of poor confidence.

You can be pro-Rutgers without being a pompous know-it-all elitist.

Dude, who the F are you? Are they paying you to be on Rutgers' C*ck like this?

This was the first statement you made regarding my "cheerleading" so yes I did in fact attack your maturity. In my opinion this alone showed that you lacked quite a bit of it.
I have no need to overcompensate, but when people make statements that are based purely on arbitrary rankings about any school or misunderstand how the employment graphs about law school and employment are used then that warrants clarification. Various posters have come on this thread asking why they should choose Rutgers. It would do them no good if all they heard were reasons not to choose the schools. I'm not here to make a decision for anyone. And I qualify all of my post with the words "in my opinion" when it is in fact opinion. Or by telling them that I believe law school is a personal choice which it is, and that I've chosen Rutgers after researching the school and realizing it provides exactly what I need out of a law school. If that's cheerleading then hand over the pom-pons.
I have no reason to bash this school or any school.
I don't have to have attended Rutgers to know how to read a graph or chart. I also understand how to take any type of statistical information for what it's worth and examine the source. Most of what I posted about Rutgers is just common knowledge about the school. There are a number of prospective students that don't realize Rutgers (because of it's location) is considered a NYC metro school. They also don't realize that on those very popular NLJ 250 charts that list NYC employment NJ law offices are also included in that. If you read my post you'd realize that's all I said.
Anything else I said positive about the school was based on my own experience.

If you have a problem with anything I'm saying about he school then take it with a grain of salt, and feel free to add your own opinion. But don't start off a sentence with profanity and ignorance and expect me to think that you are not a reflection of those statements any more than you judge me by my post.

I take back my first statement that, as you say, is profane and offensive.

What is now evident, is that instead of you being on Rutger's C*ck, you're much more interested in stroking yourself.

[dapoetic1]

@comingtony
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding your position. Do you or do you not want to attend Rutger?

I've never said anything bad about someone or someone else's school b/c I don't care about being some kind of an e-thug. I'm sorry if I believe in a little bit of respect among prospective professional students.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the thread for student who do in fact like Rutgers?
Does that make us all cheerleaders?
Am I supposed to think Rutger is some piece of crap diploma mill that churns out future unemployed idiots?
I would hope that anyone that comes here looking for reasons to attend Rutgers will find those reasons. Will there be some slant towards Rutgers? Well...I certainly hope so! I would hate for someone to come here only to have everyone tell them that Rutgers is going to be a waste of money and they'll never get a job and to give up any and all hope of every working in NY.
The fact is I haven't said anything remotely resembling "stroking myself" as you put it. I've added my thoughts on the school--which last time I checked was the point of a forum.
I'm sorry if my confidence in Rutgers' ability to provide me with a great 3 years of legal education bothers you. But I'll tell anyone that asks why I think Rutgers is great, and I'll tell them why I think it's a better choice than some other schools in the area, and some things to consider about any law school they're on the fence about. Maybe some people will agree Rutgers is a great of a fit for them as it is for me and maybe they won't. But I assure you that I'm not going to start saying negative things about Rutgers on a thread designed for it's incoming students. In fact I hope to develop a positive rapor with my future classmates and up until now I've been quite succesful.
I guess I just don't get your judgement. Your tone on this thread has been negative and condescending. While I understand that maybe on some other threads on this board that is the environment, we've all managed to be pretty cordial and encouraging. But if you're not as excited about your legal education at Rutgers as I am then my question is why are you considering the school at all?

[awesomepossum]

@comingtony

I've never said anything bad about someone or someone else's school b/c I don't care about being some kind of an e-thug.

A'nold what are you saying?!?!
Get a hold of yourself Man!

Seriously--Idaho--Seriously

If you want to practice in Idaho then by all means go to Idaho, but I don't think you really want that for your family.
You know there's a lot of other schools in that region that I'm sure would give you access to the booming Boise market and allow you to have some measure of a life.