Michigan 2012 Forum

[tcortez]

There are Michigan people EVERYWHERE, or at least it seemed that way after I got admitted. Even people who just went to undergrad here always seemed super friendly and wanting to talk to me after they found out (usually because my wife told them) that we were coming here.

+1

[dresden doll]

I'm pretty sure that if any admitted students approached Dean Zearfoss with the "lay prestige" "issue", she'd immediately regret admitting them.

I'm hopeful people will realize the futility of worrying about that in due time.

Realize the futility of worrying about Dean Zearfoss regretting admitting them?

No, realize the futility of worrying about lay prestige, which has got to be one of the most inane concerns that get brought up around here.

[summertimechi]

...

[dresden doll]

worrying about lay prestige, which has got to be one of the most inane concerns

hmmm, does this mean my "waste of boobs" concern is less inane? goodie. cuz i think it's legit. yay!

No, that's a redundant concern because your boobs will not be wasted, I am sure.

[topsome]

I'm pretty sure that if any admitted students approached Dean Zearfoss with the "lay prestige" "issue", she'd immediately regret admitting them.

I'm hopeful people will realize the futility of worrying about that in due time.

Realize the futility of worrying about Dean Zearfoss regretting admitting them?

No, realize the futility of worrying about lay prestige, which has got to be one of the most inane concerns that get brought up around here.

Yeah but you have to understand that it matters to a small extent to some people even if it doesn't to you. Should someone pick something because of lay prestige? Probably not. But can someone factor it into their decision? Sounds okay to me. These schools are so similar that it seems reasonable to take many factors into account.

[summertimechi]

...

[dresden doll]

Yeah but you have to understand that it matters to a small extent to some people even if it doesn't to you. Should someone pick something because of lay prestige? Probably not. But can someone factor it into their decision? Sounds okay to me.

Sure, you can factor it into your decision. People factor all sorts of things in: weather, whether they'll need a car, etc. I'm just saying that IMO it shouldn't be a relevant concern.

[Sixigan]

Yeah but you have to understand that it matters to a small extent to some people even if it doesn't to you. Should someone pick something because of lay prestige? Probably not. But can someone factor it into their decision? Sounds fair to me.

I don't think it should, unless you have a really good reason. I know someone who is considering transferring to Harvard, simply because he sees himself exiting law and entering the business scene later on, an area where the Harvard name really helps.

Other than that, get over yourself and suck it up. We all did it for undergrad when we chose to attend Tufts, WUSTL, JHU, UChicago, Carnegie Mellon, etc.

[topsome]

Yeah but you have to understand that it matters to a small extent to some people even if it doesn't to you. Should someone pick something because of lay prestige? Probably not. But can someone factor it into their decision? Sounds fair to me.

I don't think it should, unless you have a really good reason. I know someone who is considering transferring to Harvard, simply because he sees himself exiting law and entering the business scene later on, an area where the Harvard name really helps.

Other than that, get over yourself and suck it up. We all did it for undergrad when we chose to attend Tufts, WUSTL, JHU, UChicago, Carnegie Mellon, etc.

Yes exactly. You want to keep your options open... people don't want to limit themselves. When possible, we want to choose the one that gives us the most options. Whether it be clerkship, academia, biglaw or switching over to something else... no?

[dresden doll]

Yeah but you have to understand that it matters to a small extent to some people even if it doesn't to you. Should someone pick something because of lay prestige? Probably not. But can someone factor it into their decision? Sounds fair to me.

I don't think it should, unless you have a really good reason. I know someone who is considering transferring to Harvard, simply because he sees himself exiting law and entering the business scene later on, an area where the Harvard name really helps.

Other than that, get over yourself and suck it up. We all did it for undergrad when we chose to attend Tufts, WUSTL, JHU, UChicago, Carnegie Mellon, etc.

Yes exactly. You want to keep your options open... people don't want to limit themselves. When possible, we want to choose the one that gives us the most options. Whether it be clerkship, academia, biglaw or switching over to something else... no?

I don't think that worrying about lay prestige is really the equivalent of worrying about limiting yourself, though. Lay prestige has nothing to do with your chances at clerkship, academia or biglaw.

[Sixigan]

Yeah but you have to understand that it matters to a small extent to some people even if it doesn't to you. Should someone pick something because of lay prestige? Probably not. But can someone factor it into their decision? Sounds fair to me.

I don't think it should, unless you have a really good reason. I know someone who is considering transferring to Harvard, simply because he sees himself exiting law and entering the business scene later on, an area where the Harvard name really helps.

Other than that, get over yourself and suck it up. We all did it for undergrad when we chose to attend Tufts, WUSTL, JHU, UChicago, Carnegie Mellon, etc.

Yes exactly. You want to keep your options open... people don't want to limit themselves. When possible, we want to choose the one that gives us the most options. Whether it be clerkship, academia, biglaw or switching over to something else... no?

There are only a few instances in which lay prestige proves substantive. The reasoning of keeping options open just to keep options open is pretty stupid, especially if it involves options I will likely never take up.

[topsome]

*shrugs* in this economic climate? Who knows? That's what I mean about keeping your options open... you get fired from your biglaw job. Public interest becomes more competitive. You're forced to move into business or start up something yourself.

[Sixigan]

*shrugs* in this economic climate? Who knows? That's what I mean about keeping your options open... you get fired from your biglaw job. Public interest becomes more competitive. You're forced to move into business or start up something yourself.

Pretty sure you can't just jump into business like that...

[dresden doll]

*shrugs* in this economic climate? Who knows? That's what I mean about keeping your options open... you get fired from your biglaw job. Public interest becomes more competitive. You're forced to move into business or start up something yourself.

One imagines you would have built up some useful connections before starting something up yourself, though.

My point is that lay prestige has no bearing on whether you get that plum clerkship or the biglaw gig. Those who are hiring will know well which schools are elite; they won't be laymen themselves. And the question of whether you might abandon law seems rather nebulous unless you have a concrete idea that you might well do so down the road. Many scenarios are out there, but I don't see why you ought to worry about them all if they aren't likely/realistic possibilities. More to the point, I just can't imagine you'd get shut out of job prospects down the line because not enough laymen are acquainted with your school.

[Avocado10]

Just throwing this out there... But I'm fairly certain Michigan is one of the most well respected research Universities in the world. I wouldn't consider Duke much, if any, more prestigious...

[ElmGrant]

Just throwing this out there... But I'm fairly certain Michigan is one of the most well respected research Universities in the world. I wouldn't consider Duke much, if any, more prestigious...

Yeah, I'm not sure where this lack of lay prestige thing is coming from. I've even heard some people refer to Michigan as "The Harvard of the West". At least in the Midwest, people are quite impressed when I tell them I'm going to Michigan.

Must be a regional thing because it sounds crazy to me to think UM lacks lay prestige.

Anyway, I got my umich email address today! Pretty sweet. I sent a couple OSU fans I know emails that just said "Go Blue".

[topsome]

Just throwing this out there... But I'm fairly certain Michigan is one of the most well respected research Universities in the world. I wouldn't consider Duke much, if any, more prestigious...

Yeah, I'm not sure where this lack of lay prestige thing is coming from. I've even heard some people refer to Michigan as "The Harvard of the West". At least in the Midwest, people are quite impressed when I tell them I'm going to Michigan.

Must be a regional thing because it sounds crazy to me to think UM lacks lay prestige.

I think it's a NYC thing?

[summertimechi]

Anyway, I got my umich email address today! Pretty sweet. I sent a couple OSU fans I know emails that just said "Go Blue".

aww man, i wanna do this so bad! my boss played ball for osu back in the day. but all the names i want are taken. the only ones left look silly and unprofessional. i wish that 8 letter limit didn't apply. and i wish that ppl hadn't already stolen the good names.

[ElmGrant]

Anyway, I got my umich email address today! Pretty sweet. I sent a couple OSU fans I know emails that just said "Go Blue".

aww man, i wanna do this so bad! my boss played ball for osu back in the day. but all the names i want are taken. the only ones left look silly and unprofessional. i wish that 8 letter limit didn't apply. and i wish that ppl hadn't already stolen the good names.

Yeah, I wanted to do first letter of first name + last name but it was too long. Fortunately my last name is fairly uncommon so I got first letter + half of last name. Ended up being the same userid I had back in college, atleast I wont forget it.

The id suggestions they generated for me were a bit ridiculous

[summertimechi]

Anyway, I got my umich email address today! Pretty sweet. I sent a couple OSU fans I know emails that just said "Go Blue".

aww man, i wanna do this so bad! my boss played ball for osu back in the day. but all the names i want are taken. the only ones left look silly and unprofessional. i wish that 8 letter limit didn't apply. and i wish that ppl hadn't already stolen the good names.

Yeah, I wanted to do first letter of first name + last name but it was too long. Fortunately my last name is fairly uncommon so I got first letter + half of last name. Ended up being the same userid I had back in college, atleast I wont forget it.

The id suggestions they generated for me were a bit ridiculous

ugh, yea. first initial + last name is too long. but first initial, half of last name sounds retarded and hokey. i might try first name last initial. but i still think it sucks. oh well.

[Alexandria]

There are Michigan people EVERYWHERE, or at least it seemed that way after I got admitted. Even people who just went to undergrad here always seemed super friendly and wanting to talk to me after they found out (usually because my wife told them) that we were coming here.

+1

Seriously... walking down the street in Berlin wearing a Michigan Law hat, someone "Go Blued" me.

[USC2009]

You guys are right about lay prestige. One last question, are you guys happy with Michigan being at #9 this year (totally crushing the notionthat Michigan is in decline)?

I didn't see anyone respond to this, so here are my thoughts - Year-to-year rankings really don't mean that much. They will be what next years applicants primarily look at, but I've made it a point to look at the last 10-20 years of rankings. Why? Alumni base, easily. Michigan has a tremendous OCI program and when I graduate in three years, I want to know that I have people all around the world working in the top firms. Sure, if Michigan had dropped significantly, I probably would have been somewhat concerned.

Oh, and just because I love to whore this graph:



As you can see, Michigan has declined slightly, but I think that Berkeley and Penn have more to do with that than Michigan. Worry not, grasshopper

I just can't comprehend why lay prestige is so important to such ostensibly well-adjusted, mature, and intelligent people.

Cosigned. It never gave me a moment's concern. What do I care whether my neighbor knows of Michigan or not?

Look, I'll be honest here. Lay prestige matters to me for the next three years. It's impressive to the opposite sex. Sure, once we're lawyers, lay prestige won't matter one bit. But for the next three years, I'd like have some nice swagga

Note for the uninformed: You need more than the "law school line" to attract the opposite sex. It just helps. Personality, a nice smile, etc. all help. PM me for details.

[topsome]

You guys are right about lay prestige. One last question, are you guys happy with Michigan being at #9 this year (totally crushing the notionthat Michigan is in decline)?

I didn't see anyone respond to this, so here are my thoughts - Year-to-year rankings really don't mean that much. They will be what next years applicants primarily look at, but I've made it a point to look at the last 10-20 years of rankings. Why? Alumni base, easily. Michigan has a tremendous OCI program and when I graduate in three years, I want to know that I have people all around the world working in the top firms. Sure, if Michigan had dropped significantly, I probably would have been somewhat concerned.

Oh, and just because I love to whore this graph:



As you can see, Michigan has declined slightly, but I think that Berkeley and Penn have more to do with that than Michigan. Worry not, grasshopper

I just can't comprehend why lay prestige is so important to such ostensibly well-adjusted, mature, and intelligent people.

Cosigned. It never gave me a moment's concern. What do I care whether my neighbor knows of Michigan or not?

Look, I'll be honest here. Lay prestige matters to me for the next three years. It's impressive to the opposite sex. Sure, once we're lawyers, lay prestige won't matter one bit. But for the next three years, I'd like have some nice swagga

Note for the uninformed: You need more than the "law school line" to attract the opposite sex. It just helps.

Haha, sweet graph. Thanks for the honesty. I hope no one took offense to my lay prestige question. I'm glad I have TLS to put things right. Just goes to show I live in a small east coast bubble.

[MLaw11]

Haha, sweet graph. Thanks for the honesty. I hope no one took offense to my lay prestige question. I'm glad I have TLS to put things right. Just goes to show I live in a small east coast bubble.

I've heard (f/ an undergrad) that many of the New Yorkers who go to UM for UG do so after getting rejected at the Ivies and prestigious East Coast schools that were their top choices. This trend, if true, could account for some of that perception.

[topsome]

Haha, sweet graph. Thanks for the honesty. I hope no one took offense to my lay prestige question. I'm glad I have TLS to put things right. Just goes to show I live in a small east coast bubble.

I've heard (f/ an undergrad) that many of the New Yorkers who go to UM for UG do so after getting rejected at the Ivies and prestigious East Coast schools that were their top choices. This trend, if true, could account for some of that perception.

Yeah. Many of my friends were in that predicament... I know, I know, Michigan undergrad =/= Michigan grad. Still, even my friends who went there for undergrad raves about Michigan.