Iowa 2012 Forum

[mikeytwoshoes]

How far into the class at Iowa does your firm hire in a good economy?

It's hard to say. The recruiting department gives everyone a score based on GPA, so theoretically, you could overcome a bad (but not horrific) GPA if you are on LR, interview well and have something else that impresses the interviewer (IP background or CPA for example). That said outside the top 10%, you're definitely fighting an uphill battle. Most people who get offers are in the top 5% range.

So would you say that you need to be in the top 10% to get an offer at a decent firm (not necessarily biglaw)?

He's talking about his firm.

I think you should provide some elements of decent firms.

[theghostofDrewTate]

How far into the class at Iowa does your firm hire in a good economy?

It's hard to say. The recruiting department gives everyone a score based on GPA, so theoretically, you could overcome a bad (but not horrific) GPA if you are on LR, interview well and have something else that impresses the interviewer (IP background or CPA for example). That said outside the top 10%, you're definitely fighting an uphill battle. Most people who get offers are in the top 5% range.

So would you say that you need to be in the top 10% to get an offer at a decent firm (not necessarily biglaw)?

He's talking about his firm.

I think you should provide some elements of decent firms.

It's really going to depend on the economy and where you want to go. The big firms in many markets are reeling right now. The class immediately ahead of you is in terrible shape and I suspect that maybe 70 or 80% of the class will go without offers after OCI. In a normal year, I would expect that number to be more like 60%. Many firms are going to hire fewer summers, and those summers that are hired will generally come from schools that are better than Iowa. Hoepfully the market will start to clear and hiring will pick back up by next year.

If you consider DC biglaw good, you'll probably need at least top 5% and LR. NY or Chicago probably top 10%, maybe top 15%. Minneapolis, Phoenix, Denver, KC, Minneapolis or St. Louis, probably top quarter, maybe top third (maybe higher for Minneapolis). Even the good firms in Cedar Rapids, the Quad Cities, Omaha and Des Moines have very steep cutoffs at Iowa. Moral of the story, study hard, but make time to tailgate, hang out with friends and go to bar night every week. But seriously, get good grades. The career services people will pitch some song and dance about interviewing in OCI no matter what your grades are and how every year someone "beats the cutoff" or something. Don't buy it. I have plenty of friends pulling low 40's a few years out, so again, get good grades!

And one more thing - keep the debt low. When you look at the career services stats, consider the outliers. You take one guy making biglaw market (160) and add in three guys making 40k (120 total) and you come up with a $70k average starting salary, but only one guy is going to be able to comfortably pay off any material amount of debt.

[lsb]

Thanks for the informative post Ghost. Would you say Iowa places better in St. Louis than the University of Missouri and St. Louis University?

[NorseHawk]

Here are my professors. I have heard a few things about each and will share them with you all in case any of you are wondering.

Sheldon Kurtz, Property:Sheldon Kurtz, Property: Very engaging and an extremely nice person. Not sure about how tough he is.

Enrique Carrasco, Contracts: Good guy but tests are very difficult. Also a stong believer in the Socratic Method so always be prepared and have your books.

Herbery Hovenkamp, Torts: Another great guy but rumor is that his tests aren't as difficult as some of the other professors'. Many people say he is the best in the college.

Caroline Sheerin, Legal Analysis and Writing Research: Very helpful but extremely hard grader. Yay...

I am an Iowa grad and I have to tell you that you should have to pay double in tuition for this lineup of profs. Kurtz is an expert on Trusts and Estates, he wrote a big chunk of the Iowa Code on it, I believe. He's a great teacher. Hovenkamp is probably the most famous prof at Iowa, he is one of the nation's foremost experts on antitrust and is a brilliant guy. I only had him for antitrust my 3rd year and I skipped half of the classes (still got an A), but I thought he was one of the better profs there.

Now Carrasco, that guy is the man. My favorite prof from LS period. The guy will roll into class the first day and just undress some poor sap, as long as it is not you, it is hilarious to watch, yet frightening at the same time. A little word of advice for you. Don't waltz in there with some 10 word issue for the cases you read - he'll shred you. When he says "Mr. Tambland, tell me the issue in Finders v. Keepers" don't respond with "Whether finder or keeper gets to keep the property." It has to be robust and include a brief recitation of the facts, like "whether finder, who found a chattel abandoned at a train station, may keep the chattel, when keeper has ..." I seem to recall the bookstore having a book with all the briefs for the cases. Buy that book. Start with the issues presented in there, but beef them up with facts and then hopefully you won't get pantsed as bad in class.

I don't know anything about Sheerin. It seems like they've changed the curriculum a bit since I left, you used to have 4 substantive classes first semester and legal writing was tied into one of the core first year classes. I guess that's different now.

Sorry, I didn't read this whole thread, so maybe this is duplicative, but you guys gotta hang out at Hillcrest dining hall. If you go before 10:30, you only pay like $4 (maybe inflation has kicked in) and you can stay as long as you want. They have all kinds of newspapers and it is absolutely crawling with freshmen gals from Iowa and suburban Chicago. Seeing them before they gain the freshman 15 that IC puts on them is a real treat.

You've gotta get football tickets, too. I was lucky, when I was in LS the Hawks only lost one home game. The atmosphere at Kinnick on gameday is so awesome that I still have season tickets. Don't be the douche who sits in the law library while 100,000 people are getting loaded within 500 yards of the LS on Saturdays. Make them your day off so you don't burn out.

Good luck everyone.

I should probably ask some sort of legitimate question about law school or job prospects or whatever like everyone else, but really I just want to say that your username makes me happy. Oh how I miss Drew Tate. Even if he was a douche.

[theghostofDrewTate]

Thanks for the informative post Ghost. Would you say Iowa places better in St. Louis than the University of Missouri and St. Louis University?

I have no idea, I didn't look for a job down there. There is only one big firm that I know of in STL, Bryan Cave. The time I worked with them, they seemed like the kind of shop that would prefer to hire from higher ranked schools. The people I worked with there were all from Wash U, I think. The numbers I tossed out are based on a years old recollection and may be off and may have changed over time.

[theghostofDrewTate]

I should probably ask some sort of legitimate question about law school or job prospects or whatever like everyone else, but really I just want to say that your username makes me happy. Oh how I miss Drew Tate. Even if he was a douche.

Not gonna lie, NorseHawk, the only time in my adult life that I've hugged other men was when Drew hit Holloway on "the catch" to beat LSU. Greatest game ever. Well, maybe that Michigan game in '85 (I'm an old man) or the '08 PSU game was better, but since we're talking Drew Tate, I gotta go with the LSU game.

And by the way, the Sports Column kicked my buddy out that afternoon, so I quit drinking there and I suggest you guys avoid that place like the plague, unless you are going in there to take a dump in a urinal. Only a few weeks 'til we paste UNI to start the season. I can already taste that first 7AM beer, the best tasting beer of the year. Go Hawks!

Oh yeah, one other thing. I heard they are pulling the Field House's liquor license. If they don't pull it because of an appeal, you've gotta go there on your birthday. 21 pitchers for $25. Almost got divorced a few years ago after a rowdy night there. Thank god my wife is cool (though I was pulling self service for awhile after that one).

**Cues "Glory Days" by the Boss**

[NorseHawk]

I should probably ask some sort of legitimate question about law school or job prospects or whatever like everyone else, but really I just want to say that your username makes me happy. Oh how I miss Drew Tate. Even if he was a douche.

Not gonna lie, NorseHawk, the only time in my adult life that I've hugged other men was when Drew hit Holloway on "the catch" to beat LSU. Greatest game ever. Well, maybe that Michigan game in '85 (I'm an old man) or the '08 PSU game was better, but since we're talking Drew Tate, I gotta go with the LSU game.

And by the way, the Sports Column kicked my buddy out that afternoon, so I quit drinking there and I suggest you guys avoid that place like the plague, unless you are going in there to take a dump in a urinal. Only a few weeks 'til we paste UNI to start the season. I can already taste that first 7AM beer, the best tasting beer of the year. Go Hawks!

Oh yeah, one other thing. I heard they are pulling the Field House's liquor license. If they don't pull it because of an appeal, you've gotta go there on your birthday. 21 pitchers for $25. Almost got divorced a few years ago after a rowdy night there. Thank god my wife is cool (though I was pulling self service for awhile after that one).

**Cues "Glory Days" by the Boss**

Definitely the greatest game ever, and maybe the happiest moment of my life. I spontaniously ran out of my friend's house and did a victory lap immediately afterwards, without a coat, in below zero weather. I biffed it on the ice (HUGE ice strom that night) like halfway around and had a huge bruise for months. It was the happiest of bruises, and I was sad when it went away.

Also, seconding that you should avoid SpoCo like the plague. Unless you're underage and want to drink, it's awful.

[mikeytwoshoes]

Is everyone ok with the 14th at 3 pm at Wedge?

So far Scott82 and I are planning on the sitdown at this time and location. Any others?

[theghostofDrewTate]

Is everyone ok with the 14th at 3 pm at Wedge?

So far Scott82 and I are planning on the sitdown at this time and location. Any others?

What are you guys going to talk about? World domination? A super secret study group from which each of the members will join other study groups and plant the seeds of misinformation?

[mikeytwoshoes]

Is everyone ok with the 14th at 3 pm at Wedge?

So far Scott82 and I are planning on the sitdown at this time and location. Any others?

What are you guys going to talk about? World domination? A super secret study group from which each of the members will join other study groups and plant the seeds of misinformation?

We’re just going to meet to get to know each other offline. It seems likely that world domination might come up but full gunnerism is strictly forbidden.

[crystalhawkeye]

For anyone considering food in and around IC, heed my warning: do NOT eat at Perkins. But if you must, do NOT eat their eggs, lest you are ok with seeing them again later the same day. Not the best way to spend my first night in town.

[Brick Tamland]

For anyone considering food in and around IC, heed my warning: do NOT eat at Perkins. But if you must, do NOT eat their eggs, lest you are ok with seeing them again later the same day. Not the best way to spend my first night in town.

HEY, HOW DARE YOU!! I love Perkins and I have their eggs about two or three times a month with no problems.

[mikeytwoshoes]

For anyone considering food in and around IC, heed my warning: do NOT eat at Perkins. But if you must, do NOT eat their eggs, lest you are ok with seeing them again later the same day. Not the best way to spend my first night in town.

You're supposed to deliver eggs, not eat them.

[mikeytwoshoes]

For anyone considering food in and around IC, heed my warning: do NOT eat at Perkins. But if you must, do NOT eat their eggs, lest you are ok with seeing them again later the same day. Not the best way to spend my first night in town.

HEY, HOW DARE YOU!! I love Perkins and I have their eggs about two or three times a month with no problems.

Really, Brick? Perkins is good when you're drunk and it's 3 am and you get the munchies. In which case, you're likely to see those eggs again anyway. I agree with Crystal's sentiment but his evidence is flawed. One case of bad eggs could be just that.

[IpunchedCharlieRose]

I was really lost this afternoon. I'm not leaving my house again without a map.

[scott82]

Where'd you go?

[IpunchedCharlieRose]

There are some random little nature walks and parks on the westside that I mistook for shortcuts. Then couple the relative lack of a grid in the neighborhood and my poor sense of direction, and the result is me wandering around in the hot sun like an idiot.

[scott82]

There are some random little nature walks and parks on the westside that I mistook for shortcuts. Then couple the relative lack of a grid in the neighborhood and my poor sense of direction, and the result is me wandering around in the hot sun like an idiot.

Yeah, this place can be a bit confusing at first. The first time I came up to visit my wife (then girlfriend) for the weekend, I turned the wrong way down a one-way, and came grill-to-grill with a cop car. She was kind enough to let me off with a warning.

[mikeytwoshoes]

Is everyone ok with the 14th at 3 pm at Wedge?

So far Scott82 and I are planning on the sitdown at this time and location. Any others?

IpunchedCharlieRose is now on board as well.

[theghostofDrewTate]

Is everyone ok with the 14th at 3 pm at Wedge?

So far Scott82 and I are planning on the sitdown at this time and location. Any others?

What are you guys going to talk about? World domination? A super secret study group from which each of the members will join other study groups and plant the seeds of misinformation?

We’re just going to meet to get to know each other offline. It seems likely that world domination might come up but full gunnerism is strictly forbidden.

My guess is that if you guys went to all the trouble to post a lot on this site and you are already psyched up for school, statistically speaking, at least one of you will likely be a full blown gunner.

[scott82]

My guess is that if you guys went to all the trouble to post a lot on this site and you are already psyched up for school, statistically speaking, at least one of you will likely be a full blown gunner.

I already identified one future gunner at ASW; hopefully it wasn't anyone from this site.

[theghostofDrewTate]

For anyone considering food in and around IC, heed my warning: do NOT eat at Perkins. But if you must, do NOT eat their eggs, lest you are ok with seeing them again later the same day. Not the best way to spend my first night in town.

HEY, HOW DARE YOU!! I love Perkins and I have their eggs about two or three times a month with no problems.

Really, Brick? Perkins is good when you're drunk and it's 3 am and you get the munchies. In which case, you're likely to see those eggs again anyway. I agree with Crystal's sentiment but his evidence is flawed. One case of bad eggs could be just that.

Back in the day, there used to be a place called Dolls, Inc. down the road from the Perkins in Coralville. They had a lot of local talent from the University and it was a relatively inexpensive way to have a good time. I used to always eat at the Perkins after going to Dolls, always well past midnight and I never got sick, so I think crystalhawkeye just has a weak immune system. By the way, have they opened a new nudey bar in the area yet to replace Dolls, or is Iowa City's patently unconstitutional ban (through zoning) on topless dancing that the freedom loathing "liberals" instituted still in effect? If only I could get a permit for a nudey bar in the Ped Mall, I would be the richest guy in Iowa.

[theghostofDrewTate]

There are some random little nature walks and parks on the westside that I mistook for shortcuts. Then couple the relative lack of a grid in the neighborhood and my poor sense of direction, and the result is me wandering around in the hot sun like an idiot.

Where are you living, out in the boonies? You should be in by Benton or Oakcrest, that's where most of the law students and med students are and I can't believe you could get lost over there. Which reminds me, on football Saturdays, keep your bearings. If you stumble into University Heights and pee in the trees, there is a good chance you will find yourselves talking to the cops. I think Arizona is a night game, we played ASU in a night game 6 years ago and I was milliseconds away from getting arrested, so be careful. If you're gonna pee in the trees, do it in Iowa City, not University Heights.

[theghostofDrewTate]

My guess is that if you guys went to all the trouble to post a lot on this site and you are already psyched up for school, statistically speaking, at least one of you will likely be a full blown gunner.

I already identified one future gunner at ASW; hopefully it wasn't anyone from this site.

A gunner in ASW? Holy crap, punch that douche in the back of the head.

[mikeytwoshoes]

My guess is that if you guys went to all the trouble to post a lot on this site and you are already psyched up for school, statistically speaking, at least one of you will likely be a full blown gunner.

I already identified one future gunner at ASW; hopefully it wasn't anyone from this site.

A gunner in ASW? Holy crap, punch that douche in the back of the head.