Advice Needed: Black Male URM 3.4 Ivy, 155 LSAT. What to do? Forum

[redblue09]

Hello everyone. Some background information first: I'm a black make and I just graduated from Cornell in the spring with a 3.4GPA and will be finishing my masters degree at Columbia in May 2010. I will be applying to the following schools: all T-14s (except Berkeley and Stanford), BU, BC, Fordham, St. Johns, American, GW, Brooklyn, Cardozo, Emory, Vanderbilt.

Currently, on most of my practices tests, even after a whole summer of practicing, I have been scoring a 155. I am currently registered for the September LSAT. I am hoping that putting in hard work the next 2 weeks can raise my score to 160/161. I think this will put me in contention for at least one T-14 (I'd be exhilarated to be back at Cornell). Even if I am still scoring below 160 I will more than likely still take the September exam and hope I hit 160/161.

Now this is where I need advice. If I do get below a 160 should I just go ahead and apply to all the schools and hope for the best? OR should I submit my applications in early October and attach a note saying that I am retaking in December? (I probably won't include this note for schools that I think I have a decent shot at with a 155 like Brooklyn and Cardozo). Will the admissions committee look at my application and then hold off on a decision until the December score arrives OR will they make a decision before my December score arrives OR will they not look at anything at all until my December score arrives?

Are there people who take the December LSAT that actually do get into T14's?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[redblue09]

Also, would I have to pay the $12 LSAC fee to each school again to submit my new updated LSAT score?

And will my app still register as "complete" under LSAC with only my September score on file?

[Fuser]

Also, would I have to pay the $12 LSAC fee to each school again to submit my new updated LSAT score?

And will my app still register as "complete" under LSAC with only my September score on file?

You don't have pay to update it does it automatically. It will be registered as complete as long as everything else has been received by the school you are applying to, but if you are going to retake make sure you check each school individually, because sometimes they require you to specifically ask them to hold evaluating your application until after your new score comes in, and some will just automatically assume this if you are registered for the december test.

I think a 160 puts you in a good place for Cornell. A 155 is going to be hard to get into the t-14, shoot for 160+ and if not definitely retake in december if you think you can improve. good luck!

[vanwinkle]

The $12 as I understand it is per application per year.

If you register for the December exam before you submit your app, it should show on your report that you have a pending LSAT score, and schools will wait for it before making a final determination on your app. Also, most apps ask what dates you're taking the LSAT, so if you put on them that you have an upcoming December test, they'll hold for it.

[daddymike]

The 155 score is a good number for a URM, especially if you are Black.
I would think that you might actually have a good shot at Vandy with those numbers, but, keep in mind that it is only a practice score. A 155 practice score might turn into a 154 or 153 on the actual day of the exam... or it could go up. In any case, if you had a locked in 155 I'd say your file would be seriously considered for anything outside the T-14 minus BU/BC.

[redblue09]

The 155 score is a good number for a URM, especially if you are Black.
I would think that you might actually have a good shot at Vandy with those numbers, but, keep in mind that it is only a practice score. A 155 practice score might turn into a 154 or 153 on the actual day of the exam... or it could go up. In any case, if you had a locked in 155 I'd say your file would be seriously considered for anything outside the T-14 minus BU/BC.

More than likely I will submit to all schools outside the T-14 with my 155 and hope that getting my apps in early to those schools may increase my acceptances and get me scholarship money. For the T-14's I will probably submit all my applications in mid-October with a note asking for the schools to wait for my December score. Do most people think this is the best plan for me if I don't hit 160/161 on the September exam?

[Outlawed]

FYI: I know a black girl that got into Cornell law last year with a 154 and a similar gpa to yours. Good luck.

[imisscollege]

maybe this thread will get locked as a result of this comment maybe it won't...but am i the only one with a huge issue with the whole if you're BLACK etc etc...i know a BLACK person etc etc...it's like really? really? call me a huge republican (which i actually am not) but dude you neither did well on your test or did that well in school. you got into cornell you clearly have some sort of intelligence. you deserve better than the (83rd percentile...just a guess...). this whole thing just seems a little ridic. like was your life really that hard? if so, mention the socio-economic factors in your PS and it will help your case. otherwise, get your shit together because you deserve better. if you want, eat me alive hippies.

[najumobi]

The 155 score is a good number for a URM, especially if you are Black.
I would think that you might actually have a good shot at Vandy with those numbers, but, keep in mind that it is only a practice score. A 155 practice score might turn into a 154 or 153 on the actual day of the exam... or it could go up. In any case, if you had a locked in 155 I'd say your file would be seriously considered for anything outside the T-14 minus BU/BC.

More than likely I will submit to all schools outside the T-14 with my 155 and hope that getting my apps in early to those schools may increase my acceptances and get me scholarship money. For the T-14's I will probably submit all my applications in mid-October with a note asking for the schools to wait for my December score. Do most people think this is the best plan for me if I don't hit 160/161 on the September exam?

believe it or not, it is harder to get into vandy with a 3.4 and sub 160 than cornell. about 10-16 blacks enroll at cornell every year. I looked at the blacks on lsn who enrolled, 6 total and the median numbers were about gpa3.4-3.5, lsat156-157. some people removed their profiles/numbers so you can only see 4 now.

send whatever score you get in september to cornell, don't tell them you're taking it december. either you'll get in or get deferred. if you get deferred you can send in your december score.

If you score a 157, me and you will have about the same index score. but cornell i think prefers 3.4+ gpa and sub 160 lsat over sub 3.4 gpa and +160 lsat. + you went there for undergrad which is a huge plus for you.

[najumobi]

maybe this thread will get locked as a result of this comment maybe it won't...but am i the only one with a huge issue with the whole if you're BLACK etc etc...i know a BLACK person etc etc...it's like really? really? call me a huge republican (which i actually am not) but dude you neither did well on your test or did that well in school. you got into cornell you clearly have some sort of intelligence. you deserve better than the (83rd percentile...just a guess...). this whole thing just seems a little ridic. like was your life really that hard? if so, mention the socio-economic factors in your PS and it will help your case. otherwise, get your shit together because you deserve better. if you want, eat me alive hippies.

heheh...i have a huge issue with it as well, but i'm big on playing by what the rules are...just don't think debating it changes anything. in any case, let's respect OP and keep the discussion focused on helping him out.

[redblue09]

Thanks for the responses.

[Kohinoor]

maybe this thread will get locked as a result of this comment maybe it won't...but am i the only one with a huge issue with the whole if you're BLACK etc etc...i know a BLACK person etc etc...it's like really? really? call me a huge republican (which i actually am not) but dude you neither did well on your test or did that well in school. you got into cornell you clearly have some sort of intelligence. you deserve better than the (83rd percentile...just a guess...). this whole thing just seems a little ridic. like was your life really that hard? if so, mention the socio-economic factors in your PS and it will help your case. otherwise, get your shit together because you deserve better. if you want, eat me alive hippies.

A. Why does this make you a huge republican?
B. Affirmative action debates don't get locked unless they get rowdy and most of the people that make them rowdy have moved on to greener pastures or McDonalds.
C. Agree that he should be getting above a 160.

[GeePee]

If you're looking for some sort of scholarship I would tend to say that you'll certainly need 160 or above due to the low(er) GPA. You're putting on law schools the necessity of taking a GPA and LSAT below their 25th; I feel like there needs to be an offer of proof of ability to add to the academic community of the school, beyond the diversity added to the campus, to merit a scholarship offer to try to keep you. A 160 would seem to indicate this. I think you could get acceptances with a sub-160 score, but I'd be a little hesitant about expecting scholarships.

[najumobi]

If you're looking for some sort of scholarship I would tend to say that you'll certainly need 160 or above due to the low(er) GPA. You're putting on law schools the necessity of taking a GPA and LSAT below their 25th; I feel like there needs to be an offer of proof of ability to add to the academic community of the school, beyond the diversity added to the campus, to merit a scholarship offer to try to keep you. A 160 would seem to indicate this. I think you could get acceptances with a sub-160 score, but I'd be a little hesitant about expecting scholarships.

what's the difference between a 160 and sub-160, still below the 25th's of many of the schools he is applying to and definitely below the medians (which is what I thought matters.)
in any case, i know cornell actually gives a really good amount of scholly money to those with ~3.4-3.5 and ~156-157, the stats of most black students enrolling into the school

[lawlover829]

retake?

[APimpNamedSlickback]

maybe this thread will get locked as a result of this comment maybe it won't...but am i the only one with a huge issue with the whole if you're BLACK etc etc...i know a BLACK person etc etc...it's like really? really? call me a huge republican (which i actually am not) but dude you neither did well on your test or did that well in school. you got into cornell you clearly have some sort of intelligence. you deserve better than the (83rd percentile...just a guess...). this whole thing just seems a little ridic. like was your life really that hard? if so, mention the socio-economic factors in your PS and it will help your case. otherwise, get your shit together because you deserve better. if you want, eat me alive hippies.

A. Why does this make you a huge republican?
B. Affirmative action debates don't get locked unless they get rowdy and most of the people that make them rowdy have moved on to greener pastures or McDonalds.
C. Agree that he should be getting above a 160.

I'm amused by the implication that most people with excessively strong feelings with respect to AA tend to be poor, stupid and overweight. I think that notion is probably correct, and it kind of makes me want to talk pop sociology...

Despite my ethnic background, I happen to be pretty contemptuous of multiculturalism largely because it requires that we grant legitimacy to ideas and cultures that are objectively dumb. I often feel as though we as a society have grown so open-minded that our brains slipped out, and as a result are so relativist and PC that we can no longer call a spade a spade.

I guess in a pretty unusual way, this sentiment bleeds into my view of the cultural anxieties currently plaguing the political discourse in this country. Just like I've got no problem buying into the notion of an objectively superior Western Civilization, I'm also willing to say that, broadly speaking with clear outliers notwithstanding, the people of Sarah Palin's "pockets of real America" are generally poorer and intellectually less capable than their counterparts in more cosmopolitan places. While globalization has been a net benefit for society, you can find lots of its losers among those with crazed feelings about AA. While I empathize alot with how these folks are being impacted by the seismic economic and cultural changes that are haven taken place over the past few decades, I feel like their anxieties are manifesting themselves in the Affirmative Action debate in a way that isn't helpful.

While I absolutely see why many smart people oppose Affirmative Action because of its moral and practical implications, I suspect that those who do tend to discuss it in a more civilized and reasoned manner than folks like the guy a few posts above me. Instead, I view this poster's anger as an example of the kind of wild scapegoating that the aforementioned anxieties are bringing about. So yeah, saying that those posters have gone off to McDonalds is funny really because its pretty intuitive and insightful.

[lawlover829]

I hate AA debates on AA posts. Honestly peeps give OP advice instead of debates.

OP: you may have a shot at cornell if you apply early. Plus your a URM male so you get pretty much the biggest BUMP everrr

[APimpNamedSlickback]

I hate AA debates on AA posts. Honestly peeps give OP advice instead of debates.

OP: you may have a shot at cornell if you apply early. Plus your a URM male so you get pretty much the biggest BUMP everrr

how big of a bump? i'm a black male with a 3.1 gpa and a 171 lsat. thumbs up or thumbs down for harvard?

[SportsFanatic]

OP: I have similar #'s to as I was PT'ing in the 155 range. I decided to postpone until Dec to strive for that 160+. It really does make a big difference for the T14 schools and while it doesn't guarantee your acceptance it gets you damn close. My thought is if you want it bad enough study your ass off get 160 and everthing will fall into place. The acceptances will come rolling in. Good Luck. I also have some more insight PM me if you would like to chat.

[Kohinoor]

I hate AA debates on AA posts. Honestly peeps give OP advice instead of debates.

OP: you may have a shot at cornell if you apply early. Plus your a URM male so you get pretty much the biggest BUMP everrr

how big of a bump? i'm a black male with a 3.1 gpa and a 171 lsat. thumbs up or thumbs down for harvard?

Thumbs down. You can play the waitlist game but don't hold your breath.

[vanwinkle]

I hate AA debates on AA posts. Honestly peeps give OP advice instead of debates.

OP: you may have a shot at cornell if you apply early. Plus your a URM male so you get pretty much the biggest BUMP everrr

how big of a bump? i'm a black male with a 3.1 gpa and a 171 lsat. thumbs up or thumbs down for harvard?

Probably a WL and then rejection at Harvard, but I'd imagine you in at CCN and some serious money at MVP, as long as your PS/DS are done right. Given that most splitters with your numbers would be lucky to get IN at MVP, that's not something to thumb your nose at.

[redblue09]

Also, how indicative is LSN? I'm guessing there are people who get into T14s with low GPAs or low LSATS but we never hear about them because they aren't on law school numbers.

[Kohinoor]

Also, how indicative is LSN? I'm guessing there are people who get into T14s with low GPAs or low LSATS but we never hear about them because they aren't on law school numbers.

Quite a few are. There will likely be one or two extraordinary outliers, but that doesn't help you unless you're extraordinary.

[vanwinkle]

Also, how indicative is LSN? I'm guessing there are people who get into T14s with low GPAs or low LSATS but we never hear about them because they aren't on law school numbers.

I got into a T14 with a 3.0 GPA, but unless your story is as good as mine was, you shouldn't look to me as an example at all. I got in because of my PS and softs, and it was a hell of a story.

[DEANBIGBROTHERALMI-T]

recent black grad from cornell. i am too. similar situation. hit me up on the inbox.