Please tender your advice... I'm considering a few options.. Forum

[iheartlaw]

Dear fellow TLS members,

Although I may not have an exorbitant amount of posts, I still do frequent this site and forum on a nightly basis. I have spent the past month tossing and turning till late at night in my bed, as I am tonight, thinking about what I should do... I value your opinions and insight greatly. Here is my situation:

I am 23 years old. I graduated from a top-40 UG with a 3.0 GPA. I have taken the LSAT twice thus far, earning a 152 (sept. 08) and a 156 (dec. 08). My gpa and my lsat are not a great indicator of how smart I am. In UG I hardly tried, and on the LSAT I really only put in a solid 2 months or so of studying in. I know I can do much better on the LSAT as in previous practice exams I have scored over 165. In fact leading up to the exam, I was hitting 162+ consistently (over 5 times in a row). On the day, I choked. Story of my life. I decided to apply regardless this cycle and sent my application out to over 30 schools, yes over 30 schools. I tried my luck and took my chances anywhere I could. I have had a very disappointing cycle to say the least. I am stuck with this dilemma...

So far of the 30+ schools I have applied to, the schools I have received admission from are (#99) Hofstra University ($12,500k scholarship), Franklin Pierce Law Center (0k), Valparaiso University (22k), Hamline (15k), California Western. I am currently wait listed at University of Pittsburgh, University of Miami, Lewis & Clark, and Stetson. It does not look like I will be admitted to any of my the other schools I seek admission (Santa Clara and Univ San Diego). What should I do?

Options:

1) Marticulate at Hofstra University, move all the way from Southern California (the place in which I intend to spend the rest of my life and eventually practice), try my hardest and try to transfer out after my first year (I dont even know how easy or hard this is, and if I will be able to transfer to a significantly better school). If I can not transfer, finish up and try to graduate at the top of my class.

2) A Combination of 1, but also just take the June LSAT and see how I do. If I improve my score to over 160, I wait and apply early next cycle, if not I marticulate at Hofstra.

3) I withdraw from this cycle, study my ass off and take the September LSAT and make sure that I hit it out of the park since I have about 5 months to study for it and reapply next cycle. (or should I take it BOTH June AND SEPT? how do they look upon someone taking the LSAT for their 3rd and 4th time?)

Fill out the poll as well if you can.

A few things to consider:
- I want BIGLAW, or at least just BIGMONEY like 100K+
- I always had an image of myself growing up to be an attorney, a respected attorney... from a place like USC, not Hofstra...
- But I still really want to go to law school!! So bad that I am even considering Hofstra. And will work my ASSS off wherever I go.
- I ultimately want to live and practice in Southern CA.

Questions:
1) Which option should I choose?
2) Do law schools frown upon an individual taking the LSAT 3 times or even 4!??
3) Should I put in my deposit of 850$ at Hofstra regardless incase I change my mind? Its due 4/15!!!
4) Is Hofstra really as bad as you guys make it out to be on this forum? The #'s for it say their mean is 76k and 75% is 160k, which has to be bullshit, but I'm from SoCal, can anyone from NY tell me how they really look upon the school? I have no idea, like it could be the Whittier of Orange County for all I know.
5) How easy is it to transfer from Hofstra to another great school in NY or CA?
6) Employment prospects out of Hofstra? Is it really THAT bad? Or can I make 125k+ if I grad top 15%?

Thank you so much for all your advice. Know that you are helping a person in dire need, who greatly appreciates your words of wisdom. God bless you.

[magnumxlv]

1) I chose Option 3

2) 3 not so much. 4 yes.

3/4) I chose Option 3, I don't think you should really consider Hofstra, especially since you're focused on practicing in Southern California. Once you get out of the T20 or so, career placement tends to be really regional and I doubt Hofstra has any sort of legal name in California. Even within the NYC market it is very poor. Think about all the schools right in NYC ahead of it: NYU, Columbia, Fordham, Cardozo, BLS. Granted Hofstra is technically on Long Island, but I think you'll be competing mostly against more qualified NYC grads even there. I personally wouldn't end up attending Hofstra under any circumstances, particularly in this economic environment, without a full scholarship, which you do not have.

5) Depends on where you're looking to go. I have only flimsy anecdotal evidence off of TLS to base this off of, but I think if you're in the Top 25% or so BLS and Cardozo are possibilities. Don't know what California schools are in that range, and I would probably be looking there if I were you. Maybe Top 15% to get you into Fordham or Hastings? Top 5% for UCLA/USC? Also, you can *never* predict where you'll end up in your law school class. Everyone else is going to be working their butt off too. It sounds like you really don't want to end up finishing at Hofstra (and I don't recommend it) and I don't think it's a good gamble to take.

6) I really don't know, especially in this economy. Kids at NYU/Columbia are getting offers rescinded, start-dates pushed back, and 2L's are having trouble with summer offers. How do you think kids at UCLA/USC are faring? Fordham/Hastings? Cardozo/BLS? All these schools and more are ahead of you in markets you want to work in. I would say you need Top 5% to get 125k+ and even then it might be hard in this economy. Things should be a bit better in another year or two, but who knows.

I hate to sound so pessimistic, but I would recommend against Hofstra and focus all my efforts on the LSAT 1 or maybe 2 more times (take a class/hire a private tutor/take time off to study if you can/whatever it takes) if law school is as important to you as it seems. After that, hopefully you'll have improved and can get into a good school in Cali (I really wouldn't even recommend going to any non-Cali school if you're sure you only want to practice there and you can't get into a ~T14). If you don't improve, decide if you're willing to take a hit in salary (40-50k starting out) to practice as a lawyer. If yes, go ahead and enjoy yourself. If not, look at something else.

Best of luck to you!

[worldtraveler]

Either retake or reconsider your goals. Wanting biglaw in socal and going to Hofstra don't go together.

[magnumxlv]

Either retake or reconsider your goals. Wanting biglaw in socal and going to Hofstra don't go together.

Way to say what I said much more succinctly. You'll make a great lawyer.

[iheartlaw]

Magnumxlv, thank you for such your considerate and thoughtful response. I really do appreciate the advice you afforded me. I know what I should do =( which is option 3, i'm just so upset i spent over 4k applying this cycle, and just didnt hit the LSAT out of the park, ALREADY, while i had this year off. It's just frustrating to have to go back to the drawing boards and re-study for the LSATs, and re-write new Personal Statements, and just go through this whole god awful process all over again. But if I want to be consistent with my goals and my expectations there is really only one option for me here. I would LOVE to hear any other advice from any other TLS members with similar or opposing views on the issue. Thank you again. One love.

Question: So do you think it would be OKAY if I took the LSAT in June for my 3rd time AND in September for my fourth time? Or should I just try for September. I am just scared to have a bad sitting in september and have to wait till december to take it again and get my application out late in the cycle, AGAIN.

[iheartlaw]

I just wanted to clarify that although I want biglaw, what I want most is the credentials to be able to succeed post graduation. To me success will be measured by my ability as an attorney as well as my stipend coming out LS. I aspire to practice IP Law, although I do not have a technical background (i'm Poli Sci). I just think I would be a tremendous IP litigator, and that I could truly be a great attorney. I am also considering transactional, a & m, corp sec., among other legal disciplines as well. Please keep the advice coming! <3

[doctorgonzo]

If you are going to retake, don't do it in June AND September. Pick one and stick with it, probably September if you think that the extra studying will help.

However, I think you need to seriously reconsider your goals. With a 3.0 GPA, you are going to have to get a 170+ on your LSAT to have a shot at Biglaw. To be guaranteed a score a 170+ on the LSAT, you will need to get 170+ on your practice tests every time. As you have found out, people are more likely to score below their practice tests scores on the actual test than anything else. I'm not fully convinced that you will get a significantly higher score if you retake it unless you start doing much better in practice tests.

[feeblemiles]

I know nothing about the schools you're thinking about so take all this with a grain of salt. You might consider that the admissions cycle is going to be tremendously more competitive next year.

You still have about two months before the June LSAT which from my experience should be enough time to be prepared. Take a practice test every other day with less time than you'll have on the actual test (so its harder than it will be on test day). If you can't knock it out of the park after studying for it hard three times, then I think you should just accept your score and move on. Also, think about visiting Hofstra and decide if you can really be happy there. Just my $.02

So I guess I'm voting for option 2 if it really comes down to it. But don't take our word for it, you gotta make this decision on your own. If the boards tell you something you don't want to hear... don't listen.

[JazzOne]

I would withdraw, retake in September, and apply next year. Also, do a lot of research when you get your LSAT score, and narrow your range down to a few schools where you have both a reasonable chance of getting in AND where you would be happy to attend. Applying to 30 schools is a bit ridiculous IMO. I only applied to one because I did a lot of research and I knew that's where I was competitive and where I would be happy.

[DerrickRose]

Also, do a lot of research when you get your LSAT score, and narrow your range down to a few schools where you have both a reasonable chance of getting in AND where you would be happy to attend. Applying to 30 schools is a bit ridiculous IMO.

I disagree with this bit of advice. You never know what school is going to offer you that scholarship that you just can't turn down. Especially if you get fee waivers, go nuts.

[iheartlaw]

Doctorgonzo- I agree with you in the regard that even I am not fully convinced that I can get a 170, let alone even 165!!! But, is it possible that the two months I put in weren't enough, and that given more time I could dramatically raise my score from 156 to 165ish? And if it is possible, should I entertain the thought of doing that, or at least trying my hardest to do that...? Also, the reason I had June down AND September is because what I was thinking was to study my butt off until June, if I feel like I'm consistently hitting my 165+ then go ahead and take the test in June, OTHERWISE wait and study study study all summer and try to hit it out of the park in September. But then again the other side of that is, well if I can hit 165 in June, might as well wait till September to get that 170 if I can, and really put myself in the best position possible....

Feeblemiles - Great advice. Thank you. I REALLLY need to visit Hofstra before I make a life changing decision! Because maybe by just visiting I will be able to determine if I would ever want to go there in the first place. As for the larger admissions pool, do you think it will dramatically impact acceptances based on scores? If so, in what regard? every schools goes up by 2 points on the lsat?

Jazzone - I am super insecure. In case you can't tell. Which is why I applied to SOO many schools. I just kinda threw a pack of darts to see where it would stick. I will definitely adjust according to my score if I do indeed decide to withdraw and reapply next cycle.

DerrickRose - I agree largely with you. That is a major reason I applied to so many schools. The 3k in application costs is somewhat negligible to me, if I can attain admission in to a respected LS that I would marticulate at.

[awaiting]

Magnumxlv, thank you for such your considerate and thoughtful response. I really do appreciate the advice you afforded me. I know what I should do =( which is option 3, i'm just so upset i spent over 4k applying this cycle, and just didnt hit the LSAT out of the park, ALREADY, while i had this year off. It's just frustrating to have to go back to the drawing boards and re-study for the LSATs, and re-write new Personal Statements, and just go through this whole god awful process all over again. But if I want to be consistent with my goals and my expectations there is really only one option for me here. I would LOVE to hear any other advice from any other TLS members with similar or opposing views on the issue. Thank you again. One love.

Question: So do you think it would be OKAY if I took the LSAT in June for my 3rd time AND in September for my fourth time? Or should I just try for September. I am just scared to have a bad sitting in september and have to wait till december to take it again and get my application out late in the cycle, AGAIN.

It sounds like you have some tremendous resources. A lot of people on here, my self included, studied for the LSAT with fulltime jobs and with much less money to spend on application fees. I'm just not sure you'll do so much better in September or June when it seems like you already had plenty of time and money to dedicate the first time and didn't make the most of it. I don't mean this to be harsh, but just consider realistically what will make the next LSAT and cycle different.

[doctorgonzo]

What has your studying routing been so far? Classes? Self-study?

[emc217]

Also, the reason I had June down AND September is because what I was thinking was to study my butt off until June, if I feel like I'm consistently hitting my 165+ then go ahead and take the test in June, OTHERWISE wait and study study study all summer and try to hit it out of the park in September. But then again the other side of that is, well if I can hit 165 in June, might as well wait till September to get that 170 if I can, and really put myself in the best position possible....

Sign up for June. As the test date approaches, you'll know what to do. You never know how you'll feel. Maybe you're peaking in June and you know you'd be too burnt out by September. I see no harm in signing up for June. More options are a good thing

I voted #3 btw.

[iheartlaw]

Awaiting- Although I had plenty of money and time the first time around, I'm not sure if I used my time wisely. And that's what haunts me in to thinking I CAN do better and that I CAN get that 160+ score I desire. But at the same time, I did try hard =( really hard. The test is just a difficult test for me in general. I do very poorly in the RC misssing between 8 - 12, the games i miss around 3-6, and each LR section i miss like 5-8. I wish I could bring those numbers down dramatically... ugh... i'm still so lost as to what to do.

Doctorgonzo- I took TestMasters180 TWICE. HOWEVER, both times I fucked around and didn't study or try hard enough during the course because I was a full time student, working part time, president of my fraternity, involved on campus, and so much more. So although I took it twice, I can say with certainty that I didn't take the most of the experience with TestMasters180 and that a majority (like 95%) of my studying, came on my own in the summer of 2008 using the TestMasters180 materials.

Emc217- Thank you very much for your post. I think I am leaning towards what you say, because if I am ready by june then great, if not, at least I worked diligently from now till June to put myself in an even better position to succeed in september.


Questions:

What are my prospects of Transferring from Hofstra to Fordham or Dozo or even Cornell? What would I have to achieve to put myself in the position to x-fer minimally? Top 20%? Top 15%? Top 10%? Top 5%?

[doctorgonzo]

Is your plan to take another class? No offense, but I'm not seeing a work plan that will lead to a significantly higher score in the future. I'm not saying you won't be able to improve, but I haven't yet heard a workplan that will lead to the kind of LSAT scores you need for Biglaw.

I'm not sure exactly where you would need to be in your class to be able to transfer, but my guess is top 10% at a minimum. What I do know, however is that you should never attend law school with the expectation of transferring to a better school, because it is not likely to happen. If you would not be satisfied with graduating from Hofstra, do not attend there.

[feeblemiles]

Feeblemiles - Great advice. Thank you. I REALLLY need to visit Hofstra before I make a life changing decision! Because maybe by just visiting I will be able to determine if I would ever want to go there in the first place. As for the larger admissions pool, do you think it will dramatically impact acceptances based on scores? If so, in what regard? every schools goes up by 2 points on the lsat?

I think applications were up around 10% this year and that there are a lot of people out of work right now thinking about how its time to go back to school. There's no way to predict what will happen in next years cycle but I think its a reasonable guess to say there will be more people with legit work experience and a few extra years under their belts competing for spots. How schools react to the extra applicants and what it does to average LSAT scores is even harder to figure, but I think its generally fair to say next years cycle could be especially competitive. Just something to factor in to your decision.

There are people that come out of lower ranked schools and go on to make plenty of money and have success. Statistically it is much less likely and there are all kinds of reasons to want to go to a better school, but your life is not over if you end up at Hofstra or any of the schools you've gotten into. At the same time, you need to feel good about the amount of energy and money you're going to need to put in.

[john titor]

Dear fellow TLS members,

Although I may not have an exorbitant amount of posts, I still do frequent this site and forum on a nightly basis. I have spent the past month tossing and turning till late at night in my bed, as I am tonight, thinking about what I should do... I value your opinions and insight greatly. Here is my situation:

I am 23 years old. I graduated from a top-40 UG with a 3.0 GPA. I have taken the LSAT twice thus far, earning a 152 (sept. 08) and a 156 (dec. 08). My gpa and my lsat are not a great indicator of how smart I am. In UG I hardly tried, and on the LSAT I really only put in a solid 2 months or so of studying in. I know I can do much better on the LSAT as in previous practice exams I have scored over 165. In fact leading up to the exam, I was hitting 162+ consistently (over 5 times in a row). On the day, I choked. Story of my life. I decided to apply regardless this cycle and sent my application out to over 30 schools, yes over 30 schools. I tried my luck and took my chances anywhere I could. I have had a very disappointing cycle to say the least. I am stuck with this dilemma...

So far of the 30+ schools I have applied to, the schools I have received admission from are (#99) Hofstra University ($12,500k scholarship), Franklin Pierce Law Center (0k), Valparaiso University (22k), Hamline (15k), California Western. I am currently wait listed at University of Pittsburgh, University of Miami, Lewis & Clark, and Stetson. It does not look like I will be admitted to any of my the other schools I seek admission (Santa Clara and Univ San Diego). What should I do?

Options:

1) Marticulate at Hofstra University, move all the way from Southern California (the place in which I intend to spend the rest of my life and eventually practice), try my hardest and try to transfer out after my first year (I dont even know how easy or hard this is, and if I will be able to transfer to a significantly better school). If I can not transfer, finish up and try to graduate at the top of my class.

2) A Combination of 1, but also just take the June LSAT and see how I do. If I improve my score to over 160, I wait and apply early next cycle, if not I marticulate at Hofstra.

3) I withdraw from this cycle, study my ass off and take the September LSAT and make sure that I hit it out of the park since I have about 5 months to study for it and reapply next cycle. (or should I take it BOTH June AND SEPT? how do they look upon someone taking the LSAT for their 3rd and 4th time?)

Fill out the poll as well if you can.

A few things to consider:
- I want BIGLAW, or at least just BIGMONEY like 100K+
- I always had an image of myself growing up to be an attorney, a respected attorney... from a place like USC, not Hofstra...
- But I still really want to go to law school!! So bad that I am even considering Hofstra. And will work my ASSS off wherever I go.
- I ultimately want to live and practice in Southern CA.

Questions:
1) Which option should I choose?
2) Do law schools frown upon an individual taking the LSAT 3 times or even 4!??
3) Should I put in my deposit of 850$ at Hofstra regardless incase I change my mind? Its due 4/15!!!
4) Is Hofstra really as bad as you guys make it out to be on this forum? The #'s for it say their mean is 76k and 75% is 160k, which has to be bullshit, but I'm from SoCal, can anyone from NY tell me how they really look upon the school? I have no idea, like it could be the Whittier of Orange County for all I know.
5) How easy is it to transfer from Hofstra to another great school in NY or CA?
6) Employment prospects out of Hofstra? Is it really THAT bad? Or can I make 125k+ if I grad top 15%?

Thank you so much for all your advice. Know that you are helping a person in dire need, who greatly appreciates your words of wisdom. God bless you.

Choose option 3. Try to focus on consistency with your LSAT studying. After another 4 or 5 months, start taking a different practice test each day under real life LSAT conditions. Make sure to include an extra section with each test (then choose one at random to leave ungraded). When your scores are in the same neighborhood on all the tests (within 4 points or so) then you should be ready for the real thing.

now for your questions
1) option 3. if your goal is to practice in southern california, do not go to hofstra.
2) as long as you have the number they need, I don't think they're going to care, especially if you show improvement.
3) No.
4) the top 25% at hofstra does not make 160k. Going to a law school on the east coast, especially a school as un-prestigious as hofstra, is not going to help you when you are looking for a southern california job. It's a sure bet that the hofstra career office people don't know anything about the socal market or have any resources for you to utilize, except maybe a spreadsheet of all alumni practicing in cali, which is next to useless in most cases. Likewise, employers will wonder why you chose to go to law school so far away from where you want to practice. Go to a law school in southern california. even if you dont get into USC eventually, you should still go to law school there if youre sure that's where you want to practice. you can use those three years meeting people and learning about the legal market.
5) it's not easy to transfer from anywhere to anywhere. Even if you had stellar grades (90% chance that you wont), the chances of getting in somewhere on a transfer application are on the slim side. People do it, though, but never ever go to a law school with the idea that you will transfer out.
6) I dont really know but if you get top 15% you could probably get 125 in NYC. Not sure how that situation plays out in the LA area. Also, do not underestimate how hard it is to be top 15%. You have to have straight A's, and law school exam grading is so subjective that if you do wind up in the top 15%, it will be the result of a combination of luck and hard work. Again: you will need luck to be on your side, not just your hard work, to get order of the coif grades. That's just how it works.

I have to be honest with you, biglaw coming out of hofstra is not probable. Even if you get into USC, getting biglaw will not be easy at all. With the current state of the legal market, the jobs that pay biglaw market rates are even more in demand than they were before, and at the same time schools are graduating more new lawyers than ever before. It is absolutely brutal out there, and even top 25% grades from USC will not guarantee you anything.

[JazzOne]

Also, do a lot of research when you get your LSAT score, and narrow your range down to a few schools where you have both a reasonable chance of getting in AND where you would be happy to attend. Applying to 30 schools is a bit ridiculous IMO.

I disagree with this bit of advice. You never know what school is going to offer you that scholarship that you just can't turn down. Especially if you get fee waivers, go nuts.

Actually, you can use LSN and other databases to get a good idea of what kind of scholarship money other people with your credentials are getting at various schools. Look, I'm not saying the OP should apply to just one school; my situation was unique. But thousands of dollars on 30+ applications? Where did that get the OP this cycle? He applied to schools he doesn't really want to attend. Seems pretty silly to me.

BTW, I got a full scholarship to my top choice. I did not have to haggle for scholarship money because I researched my options carefully before applying. I'm also a low-GPA splitter, so I know that splitter cycles are hard to predict. I just think throwing out 30 applications is reflective of someone who hasn't done his homework and doesn't really know what he wants out of law school.

[iheartlaw]

John titor- Thank you so much for your response. I truly appreciate it.

I have a tremendous choice to make with in the next few days. I would still greatly appreciate any other views/opinions and your perspective on answers to my questions.

I am still wondering HOW BAD does it really look if I take the LSAT for my 3rd time in JUNE and for my 4th time in SEPTEMBER, will law schools look down on my scores?

Also, a huge concern for me, is whether or not I can raise my score to over 160, even with months of preparation. Like I said, the exam is very difficult for me, and I struggle greatly. I am a very bright person, but bleh, I wish I read more growing up!!! It would have served me so well in LR and RC.

Any additional advice anyone can give me would also be greatly appreciated.

[kaluza-k]

Here's my advice:

Withdraw everywhere; that's a given.

Take all this time and energy that you're putting into this thread, and start studying for the LSAT. It seems to me, just by scanning your posts, that your history is replete with great intentions/aspirations, but lacking in focus, drive and determination to see it through. LSAT preparation--like Law School--isn't a flippant activity; you must have the wherewithal and drive to finish strong.

If you really want Big Law and Top Law School acceptances, of course your LSAT will have to improve, but more importantly, it sounds like a lot of your habits will have to be broken. Things like "not trying in college" and paying for two (TWO??) Testmasters courses but not really "paying attention or trying" are fairly telling. So, my advice to you is to stop debating, what you want, Hofstra won't give. Attending Hofstra (and paying) is crazy in my opinion, just absolutely crazy. Attending Hofstra thinking you'll transfer is downright lunacy. Withdraw everywhere. Grab some Powerscore books and craft a crazy rigorous studying routine. The purposes for this is two fold: 1) to develop and improve the skillset needed to master the LSAT and 2) to create the skillset needed to master Law School: namely, perseverance. And, honestly, if you can't stick with the studying enough (I studied 8 hours a day, every day, for 3 months) to improve your score over 160, you might want to reconsider big law. You'll still be able to be a lawyer if that's what you desire, but the chances of hitting big law right out of Law School are nil.

In Summary,

-Don't go to Hofstra
-Study for the LSAT yourself
-If you don't improve, reassess your life goals and plans

[dante500]

I agree with the prevailing opinion in here to focus on EITHER the July OR the September exam and reapply next cycle.

Also, and not to be rude at all, but what in the world would make you think you would be a great IP litigator if you have no science background at all? I'll also throw out a reality check and let it be known that there are many, many law students/lawyers with hard science backgrounds, some from top schools, who can't get work as IP litigators. There just aren't THAT many jobs, and employers generally favor science backgrounds for them. Also, if you want to be a an actual patent attorney, you MUST have a science background to write the USPS Patent Exam. It may be wise to re-focus on an area of the law you may have better luck/be more acquainted with...?

EDIT: After a re-read, I don't mean to come off rude, just trying to sincerely be of assistance.

[john titor]

John titor- Thank you so much for your response. I truly appreciate it.

I have a tremendous choice to make with in the next few days. I would still greatly appreciate any other views/opinions and your perspective on answers to my questions.

I am still wondering HOW BAD does it really look if I take the LSAT for my 3rd time in JUNE and for my 4th time in SEPTEMBER, will law schools look down on my scores?

Also, a huge concern for me, is whether or not I can raise my score to over 160, even with months of preparation. Like I said, the exam is very difficult for me, and I struggle greatly. I am a very bright person, but bleh, I wish I read more growing up!!! It would have served me so well in LR and RC.

Any additional advice anyone can give me would also be greatly appreciated.

The LSAT is 10% natural ability and 90% practice and work. If you really focus your energy on the LSAT from now until the next administration of the test, I think you will be glad you did. I really don't think that taking the LSAT again will hurt you that much. Also, if you can't raise your score a significant amount, what about Southwestern? If you're really determined to go to law school, you could maybe get in there.

http://southwestern.lawschoolnumbers.com/

So retake the LSAT. And even if you only boost your score by a couple points, southwestern looks like a good fit. It's in the area you want to work in and it looks like even your current numbers could possibly get you in. I'm a little concerned because you seem to have your heart set on biglaw a little bit. Biglaw is the most famous part of the legal profession but it really is one tiny part of it. If you are basing your decision about law school on the presumption that you will be a biglaw associate coming out of law school, I wouldn't.

[eruffin]

I voted for option three, but it strikes me: what kind of LSAT would it take to get into UCLA/USC or Davis?Hastings?

LSN suggests at least 164 or 165 for Davis/Hastings and considerably higher for UCLA/USC. This is a long way to go for a 156 with a lot of preparation already behind him.

I think you need to seriously reconsider your goals. With a 3.0 GPA, you are going to have to get a 170+ on your LSAT to have a shot at Biglaw. To be guaranteed a score a 170+ on the LSAT, you will need to get 170+ on your practice tests every time.

For OP, I think this analysis is probably spot on.

[iheartlaw]

John titor- Thank you so much for your response. I truly appreciate it.

I have a tremendous choice to make with in the next few days. I would still greatly appreciate any other views/opinions and your perspective on answers to my questions.

I am still wondering HOW BAD does it really look if I take the LSAT for my 3rd time in JUNE and for my 4th time in SEPTEMBER, will law schools look down on my scores?

Also, a huge concern for me, is whether or not I can raise my score to over 160, even with months of preparation. Like I said, the exam is very difficult for me, and I struggle greatly. I am a very bright person, but bleh, I wish I read more growing up!!! It would have served me so well in LR and RC.

Any additional advice anyone can give me would also be greatly appreciated.

The LSAT is 10% natural ability and 90% practice and work. If you really focus your energy on the LSAT from now until the next administration of the test, I think you will be glad you did. I really don't think that taking the LSAT again will hurt you that much. Also, if you can't raise your score a significant amount, what about Southwestern? If you're really determined to go to law school, you could maybe get in there.

http://southwestern.lawschoolnumbers.com/

So retake the LSAT. And even if you only boost your score by a couple points, southwestern looks like a good fit. It's in the area you want to work in and it looks like even your current numbers could possibly get you in. I'm a little concerned because you seem to have your heart set on biglaw a little bit. Biglaw is the most famous part of the legal profession but it really is one tiny part of it. If you are basing your decision about law school on the presumption that you will be a biglaw associate coming out of law school, I wouldn't.

You really think that the LSAT is 10% natural ability and 90% practice and work? I didn't allow myself enough time to prepare the first time around, but if you are right, then that is great motivation for me to work my ass off to make sure that I get the score I want this time around. Southwestern is a great school, but I don't think it's for me, or at least I don't want it to be for me, I got WL there though in case you are wondering. I think I'm going to just end up taking the LSAT in SEPT, but it would be nice to talk it in June and SEPT, i just think that adcomms will look down on that.

And I need to correct myself. I don't want to do biglaw, i just want to make BIGBUCKS. However, that may come about. But to my understanding BIGlaw is the best way. PS: for those of you wondering UCLA and USC place TREMENDOUSLY in LA area and SOCAL, and get wages in excess of 160k if they are at the top and mid 120's if they are average.