Anna Ivey's view on Minorty Applicants LSAT scores Forum

[Ostrizr316]

In Anna Ivey's book, there's a section where she basically says: If our band is 165-168, and you have a 160, you need not apply, unless you're Black, and then you'll get a scholarship.

How much does this really hold up? Is the acceptance curve for URMs that much lower beneath the 25th percentile? Its hard to find admission statistics for URMs in top 20 schools, but I remember reading in Grutter v. Bollinger that while Michigan had an average LSAT of 164-166ish, the Average Black LSAT was around 159, and the average Latino was around 160.

If you're in the bottom four URMs (Puerto Rican, Black, Mexican, Native American) do you see a significant bump? Does anyone have any perspective, data, experience with this?

[ebonyhpe]

I sure hope so.......

No but really, I have heard this too and it is all basically because there are usually far less black applicants and they need to boost the numbers so they do not critique their scores as harshly as they do whites (at least that's what I heard).

[rockthevote]

I think that it depends on the school and their, dare i say it, "quota". For example, my roomie (AA F) had a 168 on the LSAT and a a 3.7 with a major in electrical engineering, and typical softs. She got into GWU (A), and BOALT, but didn't get into Georgetown. Then I have a cousin (AA F) that graduated from UMICH Law School, with a 3.6 UG in Econ from Stanford and scored a 164 on the LSAT and got into Mich but not Georgetown. I really think it depends on the strength of the application, and as everything else always boils down to, NUMBERS.

I know a number of blk kids that think that they are a SURE shot at the T14 schools, with scores ranging from 150's-160's, its insane. Some get dissapointed, others are VERY happy. As for me, Im a URM, and in addition to maintaining by gpa, Im also trying to kick the LSAT's ass. I don't want to "depend" on my URM status, and get unlucky... just my. 0.02

[USAIRS]

I think that it depends on the school and their, dare i say it, "quota". For example, my roomie (AA F) had a 168 on the LSAT and a a 3.7 with a major in electrical engineering, and typical softs. She got into GWU (A), and BOALT, but didn't get into Georgetown. Then I have a cousin (AA F) that graduated from UMICH Law School, with a 3.6 UG in Econ from Stanford and scored a 164 on the LSAT and got into Mich but not Georgetown. I really think it depends on the strength of the application, and as everything else always boils down to, NUMBERS.

I know a number of blk kids that think that they are a SURE shot at the T14 schools, with scores ranging from 150's-160's, its insane. Some get dissapointed, others are VERY happy. As for me, Im a URM, and in addition to maintaining by gpa, Im also trying to kick the LSAT's ass. I don't want to "depend" on my URM status, and get unlucky... just my. 0.02

Anna Ivey is wrong insofar as her assertion is unqualified. The above poster is correct. At my old school, I knew some non-minority students who were about 5 points below the 25th percentile. That is what the waitlist is for. God forbid they PAY for consulting (which is apparently what Ivey does), because they would have been told not to apply. Further, scholarships are not unheard of coming off the waitlist, especially for need-based.

As to minority applicants, it seemed to me that there was, as implied by the above post, a lot of randomness to it. Some schools are hurting for diversity, especially those at the top, and those same schools have a lot of money. The school admitting based on diversity also seem to look at the whole person for admission purposes rather than just raw scores (or quotas)-the outcome being that Columbia may not like you but Stanford does or Georgetown accepts you with no money but Chicago gives you scholarship.

The scholarship money is the really interesting thing, especially with need based aid. You may be considered middle-class at university of california, but you are a charity case at Harvard. Lots of people get more money to "elite" schools than they would for their safeties.

For this reason, I consistently advise that minority or diverse applicants apply to as many schools as possible and as many reaches as possible. This advice applies to every applicant, though. In the long run, 1000 in application fees isn't much and, if you have a 10 percent chance at each of the schools you apply to, there is actually a decent chance you will get into one of them. You may even get a small scholarship to the reach school.

[FuturehoyaLawya]

I think that it depends on the school and their, dare i say it, "quota". For example, my roomie (AA F) had a 168 on the LSAT and a a 3.7 with a major in electrical engineering, and typical softs. She got into GWU (A), and BOALT, but didn't get into Georgetown. Then I have a cousin (AA F) that graduated from UMICH Law School, with a 3.6 UG in Econ from Stanford and scored a 164 on the LSAT and got into Mich but not Georgetown. I really think it depends on the strength of the application, and as everything else always boils down to, NUMBERS.

I know a number of blk kids that think that they are a SURE shot at the T14 schools, with scores ranging from 150's-160's, its insane. Some get dissapointed, others are VERY happy. As for me, Im a URM, and in addition to maintaining by gpa, Im also trying to kick the LSAT's ass. I don't want to "depend" on my URM status, and get unlucky... just my. 0.02

yeah i would say yield protect in those two cases for Gtown, and probably the only real reason they were denied. my friend had a 158 (AA) got rejected from Georgetown (also gtown alum) and was admitted to uchicago and uofm, so it really depends....and got scholarships to few schools outside the top-14.

so i agree it really depends on the school.....and there is always (always) an X factor with black admits with lower LSAT scores.....under a 160, and to be honest...most blk kids who score over a 160++ with a decent GPA......will probably end up getting into a few T-14s, maybe not a shoe-in...unless they are applying to Cornell (i've seen people get admitted with a 152, so anything is possible)

[KP429]

Cornell is a godsend for URMs.. but you have to agree to go to a no-fun zone for 3 years.

[cougarlive]

Cornell is a godsend for URMs.. but you have to agree to go to a no-fun zone for 3 years.

lol....is it really that bad?

[silver11]

You receive a significant boost as a URM (mexican-american, puerto rican, african-american, native american). There are so few URMs that score highly that the top schools do reach to create a diverse student body. Look at lawschoolnumbers.com usually a 170 is enough the get you into one of HYS and anything above a 160 can get you in to most T6-T14. But when you should apply to a lot of schools to be on the safe side.

[KP429]

Disagree on the 170 for HYS. If the GPA is 3.8+ and the UG is solid, the mid/high 160s could land you a seat at least at one of HYS

[rockthevote]

Disagree on the 170 for HYS. If the GPA is 3.8+ and the UG is solid, the mid/high 160s could land you a seat at least at one of HYS

AGREE...

[bella16]

Cornell is a godsend for URMs.. but you have to agree to go to a no-fun zone for 3 years.

I saw on LSN where an AA female was accepted to Cornell with a 151 lsat score. My question is if Cornell is a "goddend" for URMs, why aren't more attending? Simply b/c it's in an unfavorable location? The opportunity to receive a quality education at a t-14 would seem to be enough for me, so I am really interested in why more urm's aren't attending?????

[silver11]

I'm a URM with a fee waiver to Cornell and I'm not really considering even applying...I don't know if I'd be able to live somewhere like that for three years...

[summertimechi]

Cornell is a godsend for URMs.. but you have to agree to go to a no-fun zone for 3 years.

I saw on LSN where an AA female was accepted to Cornell with a 151 lsat score. My question is if Cornell is a "goddend" for URMs, why aren't more attending? Simply b/c it's in an unfavorable location? The opportunity to receive a quality education at a t-14 would seem to be enough for me, so I am really interested in why more urm's aren't attending?????

I think it's just the location. Yes, URMs (just as any other race) want the opportunity to receive a quality education, I just don't think many are willing to spend three years in a cold, far away, boring place that has so few other URMs for them to identify with. I think they'd rather go to a lower ranked school that's closer to home and/or has more people they can identify with.

[bella16]

Cornell is a godsend for URMs.. but you have to agree to go to a no-fun zone for 3 years.

I saw on LSN where an AA female was accepted to Cornell with a 151 lsat score. My question is if Cornell is a "goddend" for URMs, why aren't more attending? Simply b/c it's in an unfavorable location? The opportunity to receive a quality education at a t-14 would seem to be enough for me, so I am really interested in why more urm's aren't attending?????

I think it's just the location. Yes, URMs (just as any other race) want the opportunity to receive a quality education, I just don't think many are willing to spend three years in a cold, far away, boring place that has so few other URMs for them to identify with. I think they'd rather go to a lower ranked school that's closer to home and/or has more people they can identify with.

Sadly this may be true. Unfortunately, there will continue to be a lack of people for urm's to identify with if not a whole lot continue to choose not to attend! I've never visited Ithica and only know about it from what I've read/heard. I am applying to as many of the t-14 as possible and seeing how I used to live in Germany I think I can survive lol. I wonder if three years there can really be that bad!?!