Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

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Czarks

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Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by Czarks » Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:13 pm

Hi,

My undergrad GPA was 3.4. I'd went from an overseas South Asian country's University and finished in an American one. My GPA was boosted from 2.5 to 3.4 in the span of 2 years. (I swapped from a Political Science major I had in the South Asian (Philippines) country to an English one when I went to America.)

So, I was a little lackadaisical and took the LSAT, got a 146, applied to a low-end unranked law school in SouthWest Florida. (A verrrrry conservative one.) They gave me a conditional scholarship. (Fun times. Kinda found out recently that they gave the entire 1L class conditional scholarships.) This was fall 2019.

So what happened? 3 weeks in and my daddies. Then my mentor as well. That's when it all got crap for me. The school didn't have mental health counseling until 3 weeks after I left. I decided to try and stay in to tough it out. (Don't do this. I did it because my brain was in sheer and pure crisis mode and I tend to make the worst decisions when I'm in that state.)

So I barely avoided being flunked out that one sem, and withdrew because I knew that I wouldn't have made it. I was told that I could reapply that fall with an addendum. Covid lockdowns gave me time to heal, mentally. I then got into a State Uni's Masters in English program this Academic Year, but as it's been around 18 months or so, the trauma of having all that happen has worn off. I've given this some hard thought, but while I do enjoy English Literature academia, getting into a Ph.D. program is a gigantic gamble and I think it would be wiser to pay attention to the studies I have right now while prepping for the LSAT and trying to get at least a 10-20 point score boost. I'll probably try to do apps for a doctoral program when my MA is done, but I realize that's a hell of a long shot and I have not abandoned my long-held goal of becoming a lawyer. Specifically, I'd love to work in immigration law, criminal law, or even get into big law. Being a DA is also something I'd be interested in, but I don't know if that's a viable dream.

How possible is it to get my score boosted into the range for better law schools? Preferably with a non-conditional scholarship trap. If it matters to the discussion, I'm a native born american citizen with ties to the Philippines. Is there any advice that can be given? I'm trying to make a 6 month minimum lsat prep schedule in my spare time.

-Watching The Great Course series, "Introduction to Formal Logic", by Prof. Steve Gimbel.
-Have a copy of "A Concise Introduction to Logic" by Hurley.
-Have access to the kaplan lsat prep tests (only missing 1-6), the powerscore logic games and logic reasoning bibles, and the free Khan Academy stuff. I'm thinking I can do 1-3 hours of study a day on average. I took that lsat under conditions that were practically winging it. I know I can do better.

CanadianWolf

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by CanadianWolf » Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:20 pm

Not sure if this is true, but a couple of LSAT course instructors shared that undergrad courses in logic do not transfer well to the LSAT.

crazywafflez

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by crazywafflez » Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:07 pm

Idk enough about LSAT prep- I bought the LSAT for Dummies book and reviewed it and I think I had one other book I bought. I didn't prep enough and ignored a lot of advice on here- I would not recommend my approach. I think I also review 7sage?
I think you can realistically pull up your score with a good study plan (and there are lot of good study plans on these forums- I think you should look through them).
For your goals, I think going to U of Miami for free, or FSU/UofF for a great/reduced price is a fantastic/reasonable outcome to achieve your goals. Obviously, if you get the scores to go to a T14 and you want biglaw, you should really go there. Others who are in the FL market may know more, but these are my initial thoughts.
I would def decide if you want to go down the PhD route though before taking the leap to law.

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cavalier1138

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:11 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:20 pm
Not sure if this is true, but a couple of LSAT course instructors shared that undergrad courses in logic do not transfer well to the LSAT.
Anecdotal, but I had the opposite experience. Symbolic logic helped me crush logic games (literally never missed a logic games question from diagnostic through the real thing).

But OP, I totally agree that you should figure out whether you want to pursue the English PhD first. Law school isn't going anywhere, and it would be a total waste of time and money if you just end up doing the doctorate.

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Czarks

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by Czarks » Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:15 pm

crazywafflez wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:07 pm
Idk enough about LSAT prep- I bought the LSAT for Dummies book and reviewed it and I think I had one other book I bought. I didn't prep enough and ignored a lot of advice on here- I would not recommend my approach. I think I also review 7sage?
I think you can realistically pull up your score with a good study plan (and there are lot of good study plans on these forums- I think you should look through them).
For your goals, I think going to U of Miami for free, or FSU/UofF for a great/reduced price is a fantastic/reasonable outcome to achieve your goals. Obviously, if you get the scores to go to a T14 and you want biglaw, you should really go there. Others who are in the FL market may know more, but these are my initial thoughts.
I would def decide if you want to go down the PhD route though before taking the leap to law.
I was also thinking Stetson as well. I basically want to practice in Florida and work Immigration and criminal law. Being a prosecutor would be a nice dream but idk if it's possible.

I'm planning to do an lsat study plan in my spare time over 6 months, then see if I get a score in the range I want.

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nealric

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by nealric » Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:17 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:11 pm
CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:20 pm
Not sure if this is true, but a couple of LSAT course instructors shared that undergrad courses in logic do not transfer well to the LSAT.
Anecdotal, but I had the opposite experience. Symbolic logic helped me crush logic games (literally never missed a logic games question from diagnostic through the real thing).

But OP, I totally agree that you should figure out whether you want to pursue the English PhD first. Law school isn't going anywhere, and it would be a total waste of time and money if you just end up doing the doctorate.
I occasionally used symbolic logic training on the LR section, but I never had time to set it up on the games. Perhaps you were more efficient than I was.Trying to apply formal logic was only helpful (to me) on more difficult questions where the answer was less immediately obvious (typically only 1-2 per section). .

If someone is trying to lift a 146, there's likely a lot of low hanging fruit there from just familiarizing yourself with the test.

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Czarks

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by Czarks » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:12 pm

nealric wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:17 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:11 pm
CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:20 pm
Not sure if this is true, but a couple of LSAT course instructors shared that undergrad courses in logic do not transfer well to the LSAT.
Anecdotal, but I had the opposite experience. Symbolic logic helped me crush logic games (literally never missed a logic games question from diagnostic through the real thing).

But OP, I totally agree that you should figure out whether you want to pursue the English PhD first. Law school isn't going anywhere, and it would be a total waste of time and money if you just end up doing the doctorate.
I occasionally used symbolic logic training on the LR section, but I never had time to set it up on the games. Perhaps you were more efficient than I was.Trying to apply formal logic was only helpful (to me) on more difficult questions where the answer was less immediately obvious (typically only 1-2 per section). .

If someone is trying to lift a 146, there's likely a lot of low hanging fruit there from just familiarizing yourself with the test.
I'm not sure but is there a half-decent diagnostic I can take that's free? I also have all the kaplan tests and stuff too.

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by JamezPhoenix » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:09 pm

A ten point boost is easy, most LSAT courses guarantee it. A twenty point boost is obtainable but requires dedicated work. Spend 300-600 serious hours in study and write a really good addendum about why you dropped out and you should be able to get into any Florida school you want. IF you can get a 25 point boost you got a good chance at the T20. So just focus on studying, take a class, do as much self study as you can and let the chips fall where they may

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nealric

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by nealric » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:15 am

Czarks wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:12 pm
nealric wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:17 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:11 pm
CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:20 pm
Not sure if this is true, but a couple of LSAT course instructors shared that undergrad courses in logic do not transfer well to the LSAT.
Anecdotal, but I had the opposite experience. Symbolic logic helped me crush logic games (literally never missed a logic games question from diagnostic through the real thing).

But OP, I totally agree that you should figure out whether you want to pursue the English PhD first. Law school isn't going anywhere, and it would be a total waste of time and money if you just end up doing the doctorate.
I occasionally used symbolic logic training on the LR section, but I never had time to set it up on the games. Perhaps you were more efficient than I was.Trying to apply formal logic was only helpful (to me) on more difficult questions where the answer was less immediately obvious (typically only 1-2 per section). .

If someone is trying to lift a 146, there's likely a lot of low hanging fruit there from just familiarizing yourself with the test.
I'm not sure but is there a half-decent diagnostic I can take that's free? I also have all the kaplan tests and stuff too.
It's been a while, but when I took the exam I bought some inexpensive complications of past exams. You'll want more than a practice exam or two. I found the Kaplan exams to be "LSAT-like", but not really the same as the test itself. Things could have improved on that front in the 15 years since I took the LSAT.

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Czarks

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by Czarks » Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:30 am

JamezPhoenix wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:09 pm
A ten point boost is easy, most LSAT courses guarantee it. A twenty point boost is obtainable but requires dedicated work. Spend 300-600 serious hours in study and write a really good addendum about why you dropped out and you should be able to get into any Florida school you want. IF you can get a 25 point boost you got a good chance at the T20. So just focus on studying, take a class, do as much self study as you can and let the chips fall where they may
Well I did withdraw due to my mental health and the death of my father. I'm pretty sure that's an applicably good addendum baseline.

I kinda set my eyes on U of Miami or Stetson since they're respected in state and in areas I'd like to work in. I'm not aiming at biglaw per se, but I'd like a consistent job in law that gives me a level of satisfaction. Not as a paralegal. My academic background in english and writing makes me want to go to Stetson.
I'd love to go to Levin, but I'm not holding my breath.

Is taking an LSAT prep course a good idea? There's one offered by the University I'm at.

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Czarks

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by Czarks » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:16 am

To clarify, the lsat prep course the University offers is the ed2go one.

I also have the option of going to a local testmasters one as well. Also, there's the Kaplan courses too I guess.

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by JamezPhoenix » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:46 pm

Czarks wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:30 am
JamezPhoenix wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:09 pm
A ten point boost is easy, most LSAT courses guarantee it. A twenty point boost is obtainable but requires dedicated work. Spend 300-600 serious hours in study and write a really good addendum about why you dropped out and you should be able to get into any Florida school you want. IF you can get a 25 point boost you got a good chance at the T20. So just focus on studying, take a class, do as much self study as you can and let the chips fall where they may
Well I did withdraw due to my mental health and the death of my father. I'm pretty sure that's an applicably good addendum baseline.

I kinda set my eyes on U of Miami or Stetson since they're respected in state and in areas I'd like to work in. I'm not aiming at biglaw per se, but I'd like a consistent job in law that gives me a level of satisfaction. Not as a paralegal. My academic background in english and writing makes me want to go to Stetson.
I'd love to go to Levin, but I'm not holding my breath.

Is taking an LSAT prep course a good idea? There's one offered by the University I'm at.
Sorry, I was not trying to question why you dropped out. I meant more that the writing itself should be solid and that it is important to connect in a human way with the person who is reading your application. Also important is to talk about how you have healed (as much as anyone can, as someone who lost a parent I empathize with you) and why you feel like you are ready now and what the opportunity would mean to you. If you just focus on the pain in your addendum a school may feel like you're not ready and if you write in a very fact based way a school may not like that either. That is the advice I received because I talked about being a ward of the state in my personal statement.

Purely anecdotally, a LSAT prep course helped me a TON. While I was taking the LSAT I could hear the instructors lesson echoing in my head as I identified the common questions. I enrolled in Blueprint but I imagine they are all basically the same. You can get a lot of discounts both through the school and through the company as well so if you chose to go down the road definitely look into it.

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by lavarman84 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:08 pm

Czarks wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:30 am
JamezPhoenix wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:09 pm
A ten point boost is easy, most LSAT courses guarantee it. A twenty point boost is obtainable but requires dedicated work. Spend 300-600 serious hours in study and write a really good addendum about why you dropped out and you should be able to get into any Florida school you want. IF you can get a 25 point boost you got a good chance at the T20. So just focus on studying, take a class, do as much self study as you can and let the chips fall where they may
Well I did withdraw due to my mental health and the death of my father. I'm pretty sure that's an applicably good addendum baseline.

I kinda set my eyes on U of Miami or Stetson since they're respected in state and in areas I'd like to work in. I'm not aiming at biglaw per se, but I'd like a consistent job in law that gives me a level of satisfaction. Not as a paralegal. My academic background in english and writing makes me want to go to Stetson.
I'd love to go to Levin, but I'm not holding my breath.

Is taking an LSAT prep course a good idea? There's one offered by the University I'm at.
Well, that probably won't be biglaw, frankly. Unfortunately, while there are some states that pay government lawyers well, Florida isn't one of them. I think prosecutors typically start around $50k. So I'd work on that LSAT score and focus on minimizing debt. I wish I could offer advice on LSAT prep, but I don't have anything useful there. Stetson is a fine enough school for your goals, but boosting your LSAT enough so that you can go to Miami, FIU, or FSU on a large scholarship (or full ride) would do you wonders.

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Czarks

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by Czarks » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:22 am

JamezPhoenix wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:46 pm
Czarks wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:30 am
JamezPhoenix wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:09 pm
A ten point boost is easy, most LSAT courses guarantee it. A twenty point boost is obtainable but requires dedicated work. Spend 300-600 serious hours in study and write a really good addendum about why you dropped out and you should be able to get into any Florida school you want. IF you can get a 25 point boost you got a good chance at the T20. So just focus on studying, take a class, do as much self study as you can and let the chips fall where they may
Well I did withdraw due to my mental health and the death of my father. I'm pretty sure that's an applicably good addendum baseline.

I kinda set my eyes on U of Miami or Stetson since they're respected in state and in areas I'd like to work in. I'm not aiming at biglaw per se, but I'd like a consistent job in law that gives me a level of satisfaction. Not as a paralegal. My academic background in english and writing makes me want to go to Stetson.
I'd love to go to Levin, but I'm not holding my breath.

Is taking an LSAT prep course a good idea? There's one offered by the University I'm at.
Sorry, I was not trying to question why you dropped out. I meant more that the writing itself should be solid and that it is important to connect in a human way with the person who is reading your application. Also important is to talk about how you have healed (as much as anyone can, as someone who lost a parent I empathize with you) and why you feel like you are ready now and what the opportunity would mean to you. If you just focus on the pain in your addendum a school may feel like you're not ready and if you write in a very fact based way a school may not like that either. That is the advice I received because I talked about being a ward of the state in my personal statement.

Purely anecdotally, a LSAT prep course helped me a TON. While I was taking the LSAT I could hear the instructors lesson echoing in my head as I identified the common questions. I enrolled in Blueprint but I imagine they are all basically the same. You can get a lot of discounts both through the school and through the company as well so if you chose to go down the road definitely look into it.
I have the 7Sage prep stuff right now. I'll take a look at Blueprint though.

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Czarks

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by Czarks » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:26 am

lavarman84 wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:08 pm
Czarks wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:30 am
JamezPhoenix wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:09 pm
A ten point boost is easy, most LSAT courses guarantee it. A twenty point boost is obtainable but requires dedicated work. Spend 300-600 serious hours in study and write a really good addendum about why you dropped out and you should be able to get into any Florida school you want. IF you can get a 25 point boost you got a good chance at the T20. So just focus on studying, take a class, do as much self study as you can and let the chips fall where they may
Well I did withdraw due to my mental health and the death of my father. I'm pretty sure that's an applicably good addendum baseline.

I kinda set my eyes on U of Miami or Stetson since they're respected in state and in areas I'd like to work in. I'm not aiming at biglaw per se, but I'd like a consistent job in law that gives me a level of satisfaction. Not as a paralegal. My academic background in english and writing makes me want to go to Stetson.
I'd love to go to Levin, but I'm not holding my breath.

Is taking an LSAT prep course a good idea? There's one offered by the University I'm at.
Well, that probably won't be biglaw, frankly. Unfortunately, while there are some states that pay government lawyers well, Florida isn't one of them. I think prosecutors typically start around $50k. So I'd work on that LSAT score and focus on minimizing debt. I wish I could offer advice on LSAT prep, but I don't have anything useful there. Stetson is a fine enough school for your goals, but boosting your LSAT enough so that you can go to Miami, FIU, or FSU on a large scholarship (or full ride) would do you wonders.
That's generally the goal here.

I also have a desire to just boost it by another 10-15 points, slowly.

This is all something I'm just slowly snowballing right now. If I don't get what I need by the end of my current grad program, I'll just take a year to further prep and try it over again while teaching English online.

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Re: Florida Man-Trying to Figure How much work I need to do and where to Apply.

Post by wolfintally » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:16 pm

#1 if you get into UF go to UF

If you want to work in central or northeast florida (tampa/Orlando/jax) and can get a full ride or even half off go to Stetson.

If you want to work in Sofla go to Miami or FIU if you can get full ride or half off.

FSU is the same in both SoFla and Central Florida markets as Miami and Stetson respectively. So if you cannot get a scholarship to Miami or Stetson and get into FSU for instate tuition go to FSU.

If you want to live in Tallahassee got to FSU..

Do not discount living in the city you want to practice during law school your network will be there.

T14 (fancy out of state school) goes to top of stack of resumes but normally no connections not saying that is good or bad also law review at the local schools above = t14 no law review

Do not trust big firm hiring stats in Florida 99% of firms in Florida fall outside those stats

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