Ohio Schools Forum
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Ohio Schools
College senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.
Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
- cavalier1138
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Re: Ohio Schools
Why would your undergrad classmates be a reliable source for information about law schools and/or legal hiring prospects in Ohio?tomtownsend wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pmI have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them.
Check out the LST Reports for these schools, and I think you'll get a fairly good idea of how good their job placement stats are. But without knowing your career goals, it's going to be difficult for anyone to give you more concrete advice.
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Re: Ohio Schools
Well a lot of them have parents who are lawyers and they talk to pre law advising so I wouldn’t say they don’t know what their talking about.cavalier1138 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:05 amWhy would your undergrad classmates be a reliable source for information about law schools and/or legal hiring prospects in Ohio?tomtownsend wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pmI have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them.
Check out the LST Reports for these schools, and I think you'll get a fairly good idea of how good their job placement stats are. But without knowing your career goals, it's going to be difficult for anyone to give you more concrete advice.
If I had to choose I’d say I’d be a criminal defense lawyer, really something with a lot of courtroom time. I think I have the mindset for being there.
- Ohiobumpkin
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Re: Ohio Schools
Ohio lawyer here. Geographically within Ohio where do you want to practice (e.g., Cleveland/NE Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc.)? Also, what kind of legal career do you want (e.g., biglaw, small law, public interest, government, etc.)?tomtownsend wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pmCollege senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.
Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
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Re: Ohio Schools
Criminal defense I think but I also love politics so I was thinking of Columbus? I also liked Cincinnati where I’m from. Open to Cleveland and Akron too.what do you think?Ohiobumpkin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:20 pmOhio lawyer here. Geographically within Ohio where do you want to practice (e.g., Cleveland/NE Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc.)? Also, what kind of legal career do you want (e.g., biglaw, small law, public interest, government, etc.)?tomtownsend wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pmCollege senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.
Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
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- Ohiobumpkin
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Re: Ohio Schools
If you want to work in Columbus or Cincinnati, OSU is the first choice (OSU is pretty good for getting jobs in the entire state). For Cincinnati, UC and NKU are dominant. If you are not as interested in practicing in Cleveland/NE Ohio, I would not go to Case or Cleveland Marshall. Cleveland is pretty insular to outsiders go to none-NE Ohio law schools. Because criminal law is not as competitive as biglaw to break into, it will not be as important where you go. Keeping your debt low as possible will be more important because criminal law typically (unless we are talking white collar defense) does not pay as much.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:36 pmCriminal defense I think but I also love politics so I was thinking of Columbus? I also liked Cincinnati where I’m from. Open to Cleveland and Akron too.what do you think?Ohiobumpkin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:20 pmOhio lawyer here. Geographically within Ohio where do you want to practice (e.g., Cleveland/NE Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc.)? Also, what kind of legal career do you want (e.g., biglaw, small law, public interest, government, etc.)?tomtownsend wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pmCollege senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.
Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
If you are able to, I would highly recommend you re-take the LSAT. Schools like UC and NKU will give you decent money if you can get your score to at least a 160+. Graduating from UC/NKU with little debt is possible will give you more options for taking criminal defense positions.
- cavalier1138
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Re: Ohio Schools
I would.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:10 pmWell a lot of them have parents who are lawyers and they talk to pre law advising so I wouldn’t say they don’t know what their talking about.
Their parents may have no real idea regarding legal hiring (boomers are notoriously misinformed about the current state of the market), and prelaw advisors are worse than useless. Reach out to Cleveland attorneys, or--since you're lucky enough to have found an Ohio attorney here--talk to Ohio attorneys on this site.
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Re: Ohio Schools
Listen to this guy.Ohiobumpkin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:08 pmIf you want to work in Columbus or Cincinnati, OSU is the first choice (OSU is pretty good for getting jobs in the entire state). For Cincinnati, UC and NKU are dominant. If you are not as interested in practicing in Cleveland/NE Ohio, I would not go to Case or Cleveland Marshall. Cleveland is pretty insular to outsiders go to none-NE Ohio law schools. Because criminal law is not as competitive as biglaw to break into, it will not be as important where you go. Keeping your debt low as possible will be more important because criminal law typically (unless we are talking white collar defense) does not pay as much.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:36 pmCriminal defense I think but I also love politics so I was thinking of Columbus? I also liked Cincinnati where I’m from. Open to Cleveland and Akron too.what do you think?Ohiobumpkin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:20 pmOhio lawyer here. Geographically within Ohio where do you want to practice (e.g., Cleveland/NE Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc.)? Also, what kind of legal career do you want (e.g., biglaw, small law, public interest, government, etc.)?tomtownsend wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pmCollege senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.
Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
If you are able to, I would highly recommend you re-take the LSAT. Schools like UC and NKU will give you decent money if you can get your score to at least a 160+. Graduating from UC/NKU with little debt is possible will give you more options for taking criminal defense positions.
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Re: Ohio Schools
Well that’s pretty rude. Their parents do know about hiring bc some have their firms and do the hiring. Why is my prelate advisor worse than useless? She’s given a lot of good infocavalier1138 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:20 amI would.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:10 pmWell a lot of them have parents who are lawyers and they talk to pre law advising so I wouldn’t say they don’t know what their talking about.
Their parents may have no real idea regarding legal hiring (boomers are notoriously misinformed about the current state of the market), and prelaw advisors are worse than useless. Reach out to Cleveland attorneys, or--since you're lucky enough to have found an Ohio attorney here--talk to Ohio attorneys on this site.
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Re: Ohio Schools
Thank you. I have taken the lsat more than one time and do not want to again, it is not going to get much higher based on my practices. I will cross my fingers for UC and NKUOhiobumpkin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:08 pmIf you want to work in Columbus or Cincinnati, OSU is the first choice (OSU is pretty good for getting jobs in the entire state). For Cincinnati, UC and NKU are dominant. If you are not as interested in practicing in Cleveland/NE Ohio, I would not go to Case or Cleveland Marshall. Cleveland is pretty insular to outsiders go to none-NE Ohio law schools. Because criminal law is not as competitive as biglaw to break into, it will not be as important where you go. Keeping your debt low as possible will be more important because criminal law typically (unless we are talking white collar defense) does not pay as much.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:36 pmCriminal defense I think but I also love politics so I was thinking of Columbus? I also liked Cincinnati where I’m from. Open to Cleveland and Akron too.what do you think?Ohiobumpkin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:20 pmOhio lawyer here. Geographically within Ohio where do you want to practice (e.g., Cleveland/NE Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc.)? Also, what kind of legal career do you want (e.g., biglaw, small law, public interest, government, etc.)?tomtownsend wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pmCollege senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.
Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
If you are able to, I would highly recommend you re-take the LSAT. Schools like UC and NKU will give you decent money if you can get your score to at least a 160+. Graduating from UC/NKU with little debt is possible will give you more options for taking criminal defense positions.
- cavalier1138
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Re: Ohio Schools
Again, you're not in a position to know what constitutes good information about law schools or legal hiring. And that's fine; no one expects you to be. But you need to be discerning about which sources you trust regarding this decision. Your friends' parents may be on hiring committees, in which case they may have better insight into specific hiring practices for their firms. But again, in general, don't trust anyone who graduated pre-recession regarding the state of the job market.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:19 pmWell that’s pretty rude. Their parents do know about hiring bc some have their firms and do the hiring. Why is my prelate advisor worse than useless? She’s given a lot of good infocavalier1138 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:20 amI would.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:10 pmWell a lot of them have parents who are lawyers and they talk to pre law advising so I wouldn’t say they don’t know what their talking about.
Their parents may have no real idea regarding legal hiring (boomers are notoriously misinformed about the current state of the market), and prelaw advisors are worse than useless. Reach out to Cleveland attorneys, or--since you're lucky enough to have found an Ohio attorney here--talk to Ohio attorneys on this site.
And sorry to break it to you, but prelaw advisors are universally uninformed. They aren't practicing lawyers. They usually didn't attend law school. And they almost always tell applicants to focus on things like personal statements, school "fit," and basically anything else except the numbers game that actually impacts admissions. Listen to the actual Ohio lawyer on this thread: retake the LSAT for extra money and better school options.
(Also, don't go to law school for a political career.)
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Re: Ohio Schools
Law school is okay for one aspiring to a career in politics. Unfortunately, work as a criminal defense attorney will most likely harm any chance of getting elected--especially in a Red state such as Ohio. Prosecutors get elected on a law & order, tough-on-crime stance. Criminal defense attorneys get blasted for defending murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc.
Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.
Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.
- Ohiobumpkin
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Re: Ohio Schools
1. You do not need a law degree to run for political office, unless we are talking about county prosecutor, judge, or other positions that require a law license. Getting a law degree to run for office is ridiculous unless the positions sought are the ones I mentioned.CanadianWolf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 pmLaw school is okay for one aspiring to a career in politics. Unfortunately, work as a criminal defense attorney will most likely harm any chance of getting elected--especially in a Red state such as Ohio. Prosecutors get elected on a law & order, tough-on-crime stance. Criminal defense attorneys get blasted for defending murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc.
Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.
2. Being in criminal defense will not kill a political career in Ohio. First, it is too simplistic to say that working in a public defender position will make you unelectable because you be portrayed as weak on crime. There are plenty of politicians who get elected having a background in criminal defense.
3. I agree it is difficult to win statewide office as a Democrat in Ohio, but if you are running for office at the county or municipal level, it is almost required to be a Democrat in some places (see Cuyahoga, Franklin, Lucas, Athens, and Summit counties).
OP, if you want to go into politics, I recommend you work for a state or federal politician's office (e.g., state rep or senator, federal rep or senator). Alternatively, you can go the campaign route and work for political campaign organizations or companies that offer logistical/operational support to political campaigns. You do not need to get a law degree to work in politics.
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Re: Ohio Schools
You're right as there is no such thing as a politician with a background in the practice of law.Ohiobumpkin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:51 pm1. You do not need a law degree to run for political office, unless we are talking about county prosecutor, judge, or other positions that require a law license. Getting a law degree to run for office is ridiculous unless the positions sought are the ones I mentioned.CanadianWolf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 pmLaw school is okay for one aspiring to a career in politics. Unfortunately, work as a criminal defense attorney will most likely harm any chance of getting elected--especially in a Red state such as Ohio. Prosecutors get elected on a law & order, tough-on-crime stance. Criminal defense attorneys get blasted for defending murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc.
Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.
2. Being in criminal defense will not kill a political career in Ohio. First, it is too simplistic to say that working in a public defender position will make you unelectable because you be portrayed as weak on crime. There are plenty of politicians who get elected having a background in criminal defense.
3. I agree it is difficult to win statewide office as a Democrat in Ohio, but if you are running for office at the county or municipal level, it is almost required to be a Democrat in some places (see Cuyahoga, Franklin, Lucas, Athens, and Summit counties).
OP, if you want to go into politics, I recommend you work for a state or federal politician's office (e.g., state rep or senator, federal rep or senator). Alternatively, you can go the campaign route and work for political campaign organizations or companies that offer logistical/operational support to political campaigns. You do not need to get a law degree to work in politics.
P.S. Please read posts more carefully before commenting. No one wrote that a law degree is necessary to run for political office.
As for public defenders running for public office, it is possible, but it is an uphill battle.
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Re: Ohio Schools
Okay I didn’t mean state wide. I want to be in an urban enviroment and it’ll help with more progressive players.CanadianWolf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 pmLaw school is okay for one aspiring to a career in politics. Unfortunately, work as a criminal defense attorney will most likely harm any chance of getting elected--especially in a Red state such as Ohio. Prosecutors get elected on a law & order, tough-on-crime stance. Criminal defense attorneys get blasted for defending murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc.
Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.
What do you mean my numbers and destroy my life? That seems dramatic
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Re: Ohio Schools
I get your point but it seems really irresponsible to suggest laws to pass when you’re not a lawyer yourselfOhiobumpkin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:51 pm1. You do not need a law degree to run for political office, unless we are talking about county prosecutor, judge, or other positions that require a law license. Getting a law degree to run for office is ridiculous unless the positions sought are the ones I mentioned.CanadianWolf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 pmLaw school is okay for one aspiring to a career in politics. Unfortunately, work as a criminal defense attorney will most likely harm any chance of getting elected--especially in a Red state such as Ohio. Prosecutors get elected on a law & order, tough-on-crime stance. Criminal defense attorneys get blasted for defending murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc.
Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.
2. Being in criminal defense will not kill a political career in Ohio. First, it is too simplistic to say that working in a public defender position will make you unelectable because you be portrayed as weak on crime. There are plenty of politicians who get elected having a background in criminal defense.
3. I agree it is difficult to win statewide office as a Democrat in Ohio, but if you are running for office at the county or municipal level, it is almost required to be a Democrat in some places (see Cuyahoga, Franklin, Lucas, Athens, and Summit counties).
OP, if you want to go into politics, I recommend you work for a state or federal politician's office (e.g., state rep or senator, federal rep or senator). Alternatively, you can go the campaign route and work for political campaign organizations or companies that offer logistical/operational support to political campaigns. You do not need to get a law degree to work in politics.
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Re: Ohio Schools
Based on your numbers--152 LSAT & 3.4 GPA--you are almost certainly going to be a full pay student for law school. If you have to take out student loans in order to pay COA for law school, the debt burden might be too much to handle based on the employment stats of your targeted schools.
My message is to be very careful about assuming debt to attend your targeted law schools.
My message is to be very careful about assuming debt to attend your targeted law schools.
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Re: Ohio Schools
Lawyers have no monopoly on understanding current law and having opinions about what a law should contain.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pmI get your point but it seems really irresponsible to suggest laws to pass when you’re not a lawyer yourself
As for actually writing laws, that’s what legislative counsel are for.
There are lots and lots and lots of politicians without legal backgrounds, do you think they’re all irresponsible?
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Re: Ohio Schools
Okay well my parents aren’t rich and I don’t have much savings so I need loans. What loan size do you think is possible?CanadianWolf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:02 pmBased on your numbers--152 LSAT & 3.4 GPA--you are almost certainly going to be a full pay student for law school. If you have to take out student loans in order to pay COA for law school, the debt burden might be too much to handle based on the employment stats of your targeted schools.
My message is to be very careful about assuming debt to attend your targeted law schools.
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Re: Ohio Schools
Don’t want to get political here (looking for advice!), but if you aren’t happy with politics today don’t you think all of them being lawyers may help the situation since they’d know what their doing?nixy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:11 pmLawyers have no monopoly on understanding current law and having opinions about what a law should contain.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pmI get your point but it seems really irresponsible to suggest laws to pass when you’re not a lawyer yourself
As for actually writing laws, that’s what legislative counsel are for.
There are lots and lots and lots of politicians without legal backgrounds, do you think they’re all irresponsible?
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Re: Ohio Schools
My suggestion is to limit your total student loan debt burden to something less than your expected first year salary as an attorney. Ask each law school placement office for the typical starting pay in your region for recent law grads.
P.S. An article just appeared in today's New York Law Journal titled: "Young lawyers drowning in debt. Ask ABA for help."
P.S. An article just appeared in today's New York Law Journal titled: "Young lawyers drowning in debt. Ask ABA for help."
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Re: Ohio Schools
I appreciate your advice but most people aren’t that conservative with tuition and money. Not everyone can do thatCanadianWolf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:18 pmMy suggestion is to limit your total student loan debt burden to something less than your expected first year salary as an attorney. Ask each law school placement office for the typical starting pay in your region for recent law grads.
P.S. An article just appeared in today's New York Law Journal titled: "Young lawyers drowning in debt. Ask ABA for help."
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Re: Ohio Schools
What makes you think lawyers are qualified to be politicians? I’m a practicing lawyer, and I have no skills relevant to politics. Also, whether a politician is a lawyer has nothing to do with whether I think they’re a good politician. There are plenty of politician lawyers who I think are terrible politicians.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:15 pmDon’t want to get political here (looking for advice!), but if you aren’t happy with politics today don’t you think all of them being lawyers may help the situation since they’d know what their doing?nixy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:11 pmLawyers have no monopoly on understanding current law and having opinions about what a law should contain.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pmI get your point but it seems really irresponsible to suggest laws to pass when you’re not a lawyer yourself
As for actually writing laws, that’s what legislative counsel are for.
There are lots and lots and lots of politicians without legal backgrounds, do you think they’re all irresponsible?
Politicians who know what they’re doing are people who’ve worked in politics.
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Re: Ohio Schools
Lol skills? Idk, understanding how the legal system works, constitution, criminal justice, how laws work in practice (courtroom). Clearly a JD education is a value asset for a politiciannixy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:39 pmWhat makes you think lawyers are qualified to be politicians? I’m a practicing lawyer, and I have no skills relevant to politics. Also, whether a politician is a lawyer has nothing to do with whether I think they’re a good politician. There are plenty of politician lawyers who I think are terrible politicians.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:15 pmDon’t want to get political here (looking for advice!), but if you aren’t happy with politics today don’t you think all of them being lawyers may help the situation since they’d know what their doing?nixy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:11 pmLawyers have no monopoly on understanding current law and having opinions about what a law should contain.tomtownsend wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pmI get your point but it seems really irresponsible to suggest laws to pass when you’re not a lawyer yourself
As for actually writing laws, that’s what legislative counsel are for.
There are lots and lots and lots of politicians without legal backgrounds, do you think they’re all irresponsible?
Politicians who know what they’re doing are people who’ve worked in politics.
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Re: Ohio Schools
[/quote]
Lol skills? Idk, understanding how the legal system works, constitution, criminal justice, how laws work in practice (courtroom). Clearly a JD education is a value asset for a politician
[/quote]
The users replying to you are really just concerned about your debt burden. There are a number of things you could do with a JD from the schools you mentioned (public defender, legal aid attorney, staff attorney for the local/state government, etc). But your life could be "ruined" if you go into the public interest field tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Spending a few weeks studying to retake the LSAT could save you a few years of crippling interest payments.
Lol skills? Idk, understanding how the legal system works, constitution, criminal justice, how laws work in practice (courtroom). Clearly a JD education is a value asset for a politician
[/quote]
The users replying to you are really just concerned about your debt burden. There are a number of things you could do with a JD from the schools you mentioned (public defender, legal aid attorney, staff attorney for the local/state government, etc). But your life could be "ruined" if you go into the public interest field tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Spending a few weeks studying to retake the LSAT could save you a few years of crippling interest payments.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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