Ohio Schools

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tomtownsend

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Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pm

College senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.

Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.

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cavalier1138

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by cavalier1138 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:05 am

tomtownsend wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pm
I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them.
Why would your undergrad classmates be a reliable source for information about law schools and/or legal hiring prospects in Ohio?

Check out the LST Reports for these schools, and I think you'll get a fairly good idea of how good their job placement stats are. But without knowing your career goals, it's going to be difficult for anyone to give you more concrete advice.

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:10 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:05 am
tomtownsend wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pm
I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them.
Why would your undergrad classmates be a reliable source for information about law schools and/or legal hiring prospects in Ohio?

Check out the LST Reports for these schools, and I think you'll get a fairly good idea of how good their job placement stats are. But without knowing your career goals, it's going to be difficult for anyone to give you more concrete advice.
Well a lot of them have parents who are lawyers and they talk to pre law advising so I wouldn’t say they don’t know what their talking about.

If I had to choose I’d say I’d be a criminal defense lawyer, really something with a lot of courtroom time. I think I have the mindset for being there.

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Ohiobumpkin

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by Ohiobumpkin » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:20 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pm
College senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.

Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
Ohio lawyer here. Geographically within Ohio where do you want to practice (e.g., Cleveland/NE Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc.)? Also, what kind of legal career do you want (e.g., biglaw, small law, public interest, government, etc.)?

tomtownsend

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:36 pm

Ohiobumpkin wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:20 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pm
College senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.

Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
Ohio lawyer here. Geographically within Ohio where do you want to practice (e.g., Cleveland/NE Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc.)? Also, what kind of legal career do you want (e.g., biglaw, small law, public interest, government, etc.)?
Criminal defense I think but I also love politics so I was thinking of Columbus? I also liked Cincinnati where I’m from. Open to Cleveland and Akron too.what do you think?

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Ohiobumpkin

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by Ohiobumpkin » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:08 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:36 pm
Ohiobumpkin wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:20 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pm
College senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.

Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
Ohio lawyer here. Geographically within Ohio where do you want to practice (e.g., Cleveland/NE Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc.)? Also, what kind of legal career do you want (e.g., biglaw, small law, public interest, government, etc.)?
Criminal defense I think but I also love politics so I was thinking of Columbus? I also liked Cincinnati where I’m from. Open to Cleveland and Akron too.what do you think?
If you want to work in Columbus or Cincinnati, OSU is the first choice (OSU is pretty good for getting jobs in the entire state). For Cincinnati, UC and NKU are dominant. If you are not as interested in practicing in Cleveland/NE Ohio, I would not go to Case or Cleveland Marshall. Cleveland is pretty insular to outsiders go to none-NE Ohio law schools. Because criminal law is not as competitive as biglaw to break into, it will not be as important where you go. Keeping your debt low as possible will be more important because criminal law typically (unless we are talking white collar defense) does not pay as much.

If you are able to, I would highly recommend you re-take the LSAT. Schools like UC and NKU will give you decent money if you can get your score to at least a 160+. Graduating from UC/NKU with little debt is possible will give you more options for taking criminal defense positions.

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cavalier1138

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by cavalier1138 » Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:20 am

tomtownsend wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:10 pm
Well a lot of them have parents who are lawyers and they talk to pre law advising so I wouldn’t say they don’t know what their talking about.
I would.

Their parents may have no real idea regarding legal hiring (boomers are notoriously misinformed about the current state of the market), and prelaw advisors are worse than useless. Reach out to Cleveland attorneys, or--since you're lucky enough to have found an Ohio attorney here--talk to Ohio attorneys on this site.

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by nixy » Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:58 am

Ohiobumpkin wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:08 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:36 pm
Ohiobumpkin wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:20 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pm
College senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.

Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
Ohio lawyer here. Geographically within Ohio where do you want to practice (e.g., Cleveland/NE Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc.)? Also, what kind of legal career do you want (e.g., biglaw, small law, public interest, government, etc.)?
Criminal defense I think but I also love politics so I was thinking of Columbus? I also liked Cincinnati where I’m from. Open to Cleveland and Akron too.what do you think?
If you want to work in Columbus or Cincinnati, OSU is the first choice (OSU is pretty good for getting jobs in the entire state). For Cincinnati, UC and NKU are dominant. If you are not as interested in practicing in Cleveland/NE Ohio, I would not go to Case or Cleveland Marshall. Cleveland is pretty insular to outsiders go to none-NE Ohio law schools. Because criminal law is not as competitive as biglaw to break into, it will not be as important where you go. Keeping your debt low as possible will be more important because criminal law typically (unless we are talking white collar defense) does not pay as much.

If you are able to, I would highly recommend you re-take the LSAT. Schools like UC and NKU will give you decent money if you can get your score to at least a 160+. Graduating from UC/NKU with little debt is possible will give you more options for taking criminal defense positions.
Listen to this guy.

tomtownsend

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:19 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:20 am
tomtownsend wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:10 pm
Well a lot of them have parents who are lawyers and they talk to pre law advising so I wouldn’t say they don’t know what their talking about.
I would.

Their parents may have no real idea regarding legal hiring (boomers are notoriously misinformed about the current state of the market), and prelaw advisors are worse than useless. Reach out to Cleveland attorneys, or--since you're lucky enough to have found an Ohio attorney here--talk to Ohio attorneys on this site.
Well that’s pretty rude. Their parents do know about hiring bc some have their firms and do the hiring. Why is my prelate advisor worse than useless? She’s given a lot of good info

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tomtownsend

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:20 pm

Ohiobumpkin wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:08 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:36 pm
Ohiobumpkin wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:20 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:11 pm
College senior here. I know I want to stay in Ohio and am applying for fall 2022. I want to know my chances for these schools and if anyone knows anything about them. I have my own ideas from what classmates in my pre-law group say about them. Stats are 3.4 GPA and 152 LSAT.

Now, my list is Cleveland-Marshall, Akron, Cincinatti, Northern Kentucky (right across the state line!). Id apply to case and OSU but I dont think I have the numbers.
Ohio lawyer here. Geographically within Ohio where do you want to practice (e.g., Cleveland/NE Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, etc.)? Also, what kind of legal career do you want (e.g., biglaw, small law, public interest, government, etc.)?
Criminal defense I think but I also love politics so I was thinking of Columbus? I also liked Cincinnati where I’m from. Open to Cleveland and Akron too.what do you think?
If you want to work in Columbus or Cincinnati, OSU is the first choice (OSU is pretty good for getting jobs in the entire state). For Cincinnati, UC and NKU are dominant. If you are not as interested in practicing in Cleveland/NE Ohio, I would not go to Case or Cleveland Marshall. Cleveland is pretty insular to outsiders go to none-NE Ohio law schools. Because criminal law is not as competitive as biglaw to break into, it will not be as important where you go. Keeping your debt low as possible will be more important because criminal law typically (unless we are talking white collar defense) does not pay as much.

If you are able to, I would highly recommend you re-take the LSAT. Schools like UC and NKU will give you decent money if you can get your score to at least a 160+. Graduating from UC/NKU with little debt is possible will give you more options for taking criminal defense positions.
Thank you. I have taken the lsat more than one time and do not want to again, it is not going to get much higher based on my practices. I will cross my fingers for UC and NKU

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cavalier1138

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by cavalier1138 » Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:32 am

tomtownsend wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:19 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:20 am
tomtownsend wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:10 pm
Well a lot of them have parents who are lawyers and they talk to pre law advising so I wouldn’t say they don’t know what their talking about.
I would.

Their parents may have no real idea regarding legal hiring (boomers are notoriously misinformed about the current state of the market), and prelaw advisors are worse than useless. Reach out to Cleveland attorneys, or--since you're lucky enough to have found an Ohio attorney here--talk to Ohio attorneys on this site.
Well that’s pretty rude. Their parents do know about hiring bc some have their firms and do the hiring. Why is my prelate advisor worse than useless? She’s given a lot of good info
Again, you're not in a position to know what constitutes good information about law schools or legal hiring. And that's fine; no one expects you to be. But you need to be discerning about which sources you trust regarding this decision. Your friends' parents may be on hiring committees, in which case they may have better insight into specific hiring practices for their firms. But again, in general, don't trust anyone who graduated pre-recession regarding the state of the job market.

And sorry to break it to you, but prelaw advisors are universally uninformed. They aren't practicing lawyers. They usually didn't attend law school. And they almost always tell applicants to focus on things like personal statements, school "fit," and basically anything else except the numbers game that actually impacts admissions. Listen to the actual Ohio lawyer on this thread: retake the LSAT for extra money and better school options.

(Also, don't go to law school for a political career.)

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by CanadianWolf » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 pm

Law school is okay for one aspiring to a career in politics. Unfortunately, work as a criminal defense attorney will most likely harm any chance of getting elected--especially in a Red state such as Ohio. Prosecutors get elected on a law & order, tough-on-crime stance. Criminal defense attorneys get blasted for defending murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc.

Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.

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Ohiobumpkin

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by Ohiobumpkin » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:51 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 pm
Law school is okay for one aspiring to a career in politics. Unfortunately, work as a criminal defense attorney will most likely harm any chance of getting elected--especially in a Red state such as Ohio. Prosecutors get elected on a law & order, tough-on-crime stance. Criminal defense attorneys get blasted for defending murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc.

Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.
1. You do not need a law degree to run for political office, unless we are talking about county prosecutor, judge, or other positions that require a law license. Getting a law degree to run for office is ridiculous unless the positions sought are the ones I mentioned.

2. Being in criminal defense will not kill a political career in Ohio. First, it is too simplistic to say that working in a public defender position will make you unelectable because you be portrayed as weak on crime. There are plenty of politicians who get elected having a background in criminal defense.

3. I agree it is difficult to win statewide office as a Democrat in Ohio, but if you are running for office at the county or municipal level, it is almost required to be a Democrat in some places (see Cuyahoga, Franklin, Lucas, Athens, and Summit counties).

OP, if you want to go into politics, I recommend you work for a state or federal politician's office (e.g., state rep or senator, federal rep or senator). Alternatively, you can go the campaign route and work for political campaign organizations or companies that offer logistical/operational support to political campaigns. You do not need to get a law degree to work in politics.

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by CanadianWolf » Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:09 pm

Ohiobumpkin wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:51 pm
CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 pm
Law school is okay for one aspiring to a career in politics. Unfortunately, work as a criminal defense attorney will most likely harm any chance of getting elected--especially in a Red state such as Ohio. Prosecutors get elected on a law & order, tough-on-crime stance. Criminal defense attorneys get blasted for defending murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc.

Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.
1. You do not need a law degree to run for political office, unless we are talking about county prosecutor, judge, or other positions that require a law license. Getting a law degree to run for office is ridiculous unless the positions sought are the ones I mentioned.

2. Being in criminal defense will not kill a political career in Ohio. First, it is too simplistic to say that working in a public defender position will make you unelectable because you be portrayed as weak on crime. There are plenty of politicians who get elected having a background in criminal defense.

3. I agree it is difficult to win statewide office as a Democrat in Ohio, but if you are running for office at the county or municipal level, it is almost required to be a Democrat in some places (see Cuyahoga, Franklin, Lucas, Athens, and Summit counties).

OP, if you want to go into politics, I recommend you work for a state or federal politician's office (e.g., state rep or senator, federal rep or senator). Alternatively, you can go the campaign route and work for political campaign organizations or companies that offer logistical/operational support to political campaigns. You do not need to get a law degree to work in politics.
You're right as there is no such thing as a politician with a background in the practice of law.

P.S. Please read posts more carefully before commenting. No one wrote that a law degree is necessary to run for political office.

As for public defenders running for public office, it is possible, but it is an uphill battle.

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:55 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 pm
Law school is okay for one aspiring to a career in politics. Unfortunately, work as a criminal defense attorney will most likely harm any chance of getting elected--especially in a Red state such as Ohio. Prosecutors get elected on a law & order, tough-on-crime stance. Criminal defense attorneys get blasted for defending murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc.

Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.
Okay I didn’t mean state wide. I want to be in an urban enviroment and it’ll help with more progressive players.

What do you mean my numbers and destroy my life? That seems dramatic

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pm

Ohiobumpkin wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:51 pm
CanadianWolf wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 pm
Law school is okay for one aspiring to a career in politics. Unfortunately, work as a criminal defense attorney will most likely harm any chance of getting elected--especially in a Red state such as Ohio. Prosecutors get elected on a law & order, tough-on-crime stance. Criminal defense attorneys get blasted for defending murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc.

Based on your current numbers, the financial burden of attending law school may destroy your life.
1. You do not need a law degree to run for political office, unless we are talking about county prosecutor, judge, or other positions that require a law license. Getting a law degree to run for office is ridiculous unless the positions sought are the ones I mentioned.

2. Being in criminal defense will not kill a political career in Ohio. First, it is too simplistic to say that working in a public defender position will make you unelectable because you be portrayed as weak on crime. There are plenty of politicians who get elected having a background in criminal defense.

3. I agree it is difficult to win statewide office as a Democrat in Ohio, but if you are running for office at the county or municipal level, it is almost required to be a Democrat in some places (see Cuyahoga, Franklin, Lucas, Athens, and Summit counties).

OP, if you want to go into politics, I recommend you work for a state or federal politician's office (e.g., state rep or senator, federal rep or senator). Alternatively, you can go the campaign route and work for political campaign organizations or companies that offer logistical/operational support to political campaigns. You do not need to get a law degree to work in politics.
I get your point but it seems really irresponsible to suggest laws to pass when you’re not a lawyer yourself

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by CanadianWolf » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:02 pm

Based on your numbers--152 LSAT & 3.4 GPA--you are almost certainly going to be a full pay student for law school. If you have to take out student loans in order to pay COA for law school, the debt burden might be too much to handle based on the employment stats of your targeted schools.

My message is to be very careful about assuming debt to attend your targeted law schools.

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nixy

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by nixy » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:11 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pm
I get your point but it seems really irresponsible to suggest laws to pass when you’re not a lawyer yourself
Lawyers have no monopoly on understanding current law and having opinions about what a law should contain.

As for actually writing laws, that’s what legislative counsel are for.

There are lots and lots and lots of politicians without legal backgrounds, do you think they’re all irresponsible?

tomtownsend

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:14 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:02 pm
Based on your numbers--152 LSAT & 3.4 GPA--you are almost certainly going to be a full pay student for law school. If you have to take out student loans in order to pay COA for law school, the debt burden might be too much to handle based on the employment stats of your targeted schools.

My message is to be very careful about assuming debt to attend your targeted law schools.
Okay well my parents aren’t rich and I don’t have much savings so I need loans. What loan size do you think is possible?

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:15 pm

nixy wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:11 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pm
I get your point but it seems really irresponsible to suggest laws to pass when you’re not a lawyer yourself
Lawyers have no monopoly on understanding current law and having opinions about what a law should contain.

As for actually writing laws, that’s what legislative counsel are for.

There are lots and lots and lots of politicians without legal backgrounds, do you think they’re all irresponsible?
Don’t want to get political here (looking for advice!), but if you aren’t happy with politics today don’t you think all of them being lawyers may help the situation since they’d know what their doing?

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by CanadianWolf » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:18 pm

My suggestion is to limit your total student loan debt burden to something less than your expected first year salary as an attorney. Ask each law school placement office for the typical starting pay in your region for recent law grads.

P.S. An article just appeared in today's New York Law Journal titled: "Young lawyers drowning in debt. Ask ABA for help."

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:32 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:18 pm
My suggestion is to limit your total student loan debt burden to something less than your expected first year salary as an attorney. Ask each law school placement office for the typical starting pay in your region for recent law grads.

P.S. An article just appeared in today's New York Law Journal titled: "Young lawyers drowning in debt. Ask ABA for help."
I appreciate your advice but most people aren’t that conservative with tuition and money. Not everyone can do that

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by nixy » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:39 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:15 pm
nixy wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:11 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pm
I get your point but it seems really irresponsible to suggest laws to pass when you’re not a lawyer yourself
Lawyers have no monopoly on understanding current law and having opinions about what a law should contain.

As for actually writing laws, that’s what legislative counsel are for.

There are lots and lots and lots of politicians without legal backgrounds, do you think they’re all irresponsible?
Don’t want to get political here (looking for advice!), but if you aren’t happy with politics today don’t you think all of them being lawyers may help the situation since they’d know what their doing?
What makes you think lawyers are qualified to be politicians? I’m a practicing lawyer, and I have no skills relevant to politics. Also, whether a politician is a lawyer has nothing to do with whether I think they’re a good politician. There are plenty of politician lawyers who I think are terrible politicians.

Politicians who know what they’re doing are people who’ve worked in politics.

tomtownsend

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:19 pm

nixy wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:39 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:15 pm
nixy wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:11 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:57 pm
I get your point but it seems really irresponsible to suggest laws to pass when you’re not a lawyer yourself
Lawyers have no monopoly on understanding current law and having opinions about what a law should contain.

As for actually writing laws, that’s what legislative counsel are for.

There are lots and lots and lots of politicians without legal backgrounds, do you think they’re all irresponsible?
Don’t want to get political here (looking for advice!), but if you aren’t happy with politics today don’t you think all of them being lawyers may help the situation since they’d know what their doing?
What makes you think lawyers are qualified to be politicians? I’m a practicing lawyer, and I have no skills relevant to politics. Also, whether a politician is a lawyer has nothing to do with whether I think they’re a good politician. There are plenty of politician lawyers who I think are terrible politicians.

Politicians who know what they’re doing are people who’ve worked in politics.
Lol skills? Idk, understanding how the legal system works, constitution, criminal justice, how laws work in practice (courtroom). Clearly a JD education is a value asset for a politician

Baron7

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Re: Ohio Schools

Post by Baron7 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:39 pm

[/quote]

Lol skills? Idk, understanding how the legal system works, constitution, criminal justice, how laws work in practice (courtroom). Clearly a JD education is a value asset for a politician
[/quote]

The users replying to you are really just concerned about your debt burden. There are a number of things you could do with a JD from the schools you mentioned (public defender, legal aid attorney, staff attorney for the local/state government, etc). But your life could be "ruined" if you go into the public interest field tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Spending a few weeks studying to retake the LSAT could save you a few years of crippling interest payments.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
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