What do I do? (Underemployed/Unemployed) Forum

[strawberryprincess7]

Hello. After a year of job searching without success, I don't have it in me to continue going on anymore just to have a cycle of getting shot down over and over again. I have a 3.9 GPA from a top 20 USNWR school and I'm putting my all into getting the best LSAT possible. If I spend the upcoming two years just working as an Uber driver or whatever minimum wage job so I can at least put more weight into the LSAT and get the LSAT above a 170 (right now, I'm preptesting in the low 170s and I'm hoping that by the fall of 2021 next year, I can get around a 175 on the official thing), would it matter to schools like HYS (CCN) that I was just an Uber driver/waitress/bartender for two years? It's been one of my major goals to get into one of those schools and I'm just scared that my resume would be shot down compared to those who have paralegaled for top places or worked in the corporate world or whatnot.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I'm just scared that my resume would be shot down compared to those who have paralegaled for top places or worked in the corporate world or whatnot.

Don't worry about it. Work experience is a soft factor at most, and having any is more important than what you do. And law schools are going to be even more forgiving than usual thanks to COVID.

[nixy]

Paralegaling is so common, it’s not going to make a difference in an application. And sure, if you’d done something super amazing and impressive in the corporate world (or any world), that would be great, but most people don’t - you’re fine. There are plenty of people who really like to see grunt work/service work on someone’s resume. To the extent work experience matters, it’s in 1) having any versus having none, 2) being able to talk about it in a compelling/interesting way in your application where pertinent, and 3) if you can, getting a good reference from someone (and even then academic references are probably more significant for someone only a couple years out or college).

[strawberryprincess7]

Bump:
What about for schools like HYS?
Also, would being an Uber driver for 2 years (at this moment, I am seriously thinking about it) affect my chances at OCI or 1L because I didn't have any tangible or relevant work experience?

[nixy]

Honestly, it’s not going to hurt you. Here’s my completely unscientific “ranking” of pre-law school work experience:

1) Really impressive/eye catching unusual work experience (like UN negotiator or Pulitzer Prize-winning author or Senator or Olympic athlete) = will help with admissions and future employment (but almost no one will have this experience)

2) common white collar experience in something sort of pertinent to biglaw jobs (consulting, investment banking, lower level DC political stuff) = good to have for admissions because it’s work experience, can help at OCI for big firms (but not required)

3) other jobs = good to have for admissions and OCI purposes because it’s work experience

4) K-JD = a good candidate will still have tons of admissions and OCI options but it’s better to have work experience if you can

The reality is that no one who’s looking for a way to spend a couple of years before law school right after graduating college is going to fall into category 1. Those are usually the kinds of things you have to put a lot of sweat equity into for years to achieve, not things you can do as a way to make a law school app better. This is why I say almost no one falls into this category - you will probably find more of them at HYS but these are, overall, not common applicants.

More applicants fall into category 2, but I don’t think for admissions purposes they have a particular edge over category 3. They can have an edge at OCI for big firms, mostly because they have some context for big firm work and experience in that white collar sector can translate to more effective interviewing. But this experience also isn’t required to do well at OCI.

Having work experience at all is, I think, the important thing. In part, it helps you get a job because employers know that they won’t have to teach you how to be an employee, period, at the same time they have to teach you their job. I think it will also help with interviewing generally, even without white collar-specific experience.

That said, KJDs still succeed all the time, at both admissions and OCI.

(I’ve defaulted to biglaw because so many people here want to do that - I think prior relevant experience can be a little more pertinent for some mission-driven public sector stuff - more like impact lit and non-profit work than government - but again, plenty of people succeed in those fields without relevant previous experience.)

In any case, you have the job opportunities that you have. You can’t magically will yourself into category 1, and frankly a lot of people don’t have access to category 2 (depending on location/alma mater) or just aren’t interested in category 2. Sure, some jobs are fancier and shinier-looking than others. But if you can’t get one of those, you’re not foreclosed from anything. And for admissions purposes, much more important than having a specific job is putting your own experience into a compelling, well-crafted narrative in which you can explain why you did whatever job you did and, more importantly, why it makes you someone they should admit to their school. So driving for Uber/waitressing/bartending isn’t going to keep you from getting into a top school - assuming you have the rest of the qualifications to get in, of course. (And this is going to be even more the case, as already mentioned, because of the economic impact of Covid.)

Besides, what is your alternative? If we all said “Uber/waitressing/bartending *will* get you shot down compared to the fancy paralegals” [but it won’t], what would you do instead? It’s definitely better to do whatever ordinary job than to keep applying for something shinier, not get it, and not have work experience at all.

Basically, law is really a generalist degree - people come to it from all kinds of different fields and experiences and it has no real prereqs (unlike most other grad programs). You don’t have to show you have specific experience already to get in/get a job, you just have to show potential.

(Okay I had no intention of writing a tome but I guess I feel strongly about this!)

[strawberryprincess7]

Thank you so much @nixy for taking the time to write all of that! I appreciate you doing that because now I have a definite sense of closure. Thanks. =)

Honestly, it’s not going to hurt you. Here’s my completely unscientific “ranking” of pre-law school work experience:

1) Really impressive/eye catching unusual work experience (like UN negotiator or Pulitzer Prize-winning author or Senator or Olympic athlete) = will help with admissions and future employment (but almost no one will have this experience)

2) common white collar experience in something sort of pertinent to biglaw jobs (consulting, investment banking, lower level DC political stuff) = good to have for admissions because it’s work experience, can help at OCI for big firms (but not required)

3) other jobs = good to have for admissions and OCI purposes because it’s work experience

4) K-JD = a good candidate will still have tons of admissions and OCI options but it’s better to have work experience if you can

The reality is that no one who’s looking for a way to spend a couple of years before law school right after graduating college is going to fall into category 1. Those are usually the kinds of things you have to put a lot of sweat equity into for years to achieve, not things you can do as a way to make a law school app better. This is why I say almost no one falls into this category - you will probably find more of them at HYS but these are, overall, not common applicants.

More applicants fall into category 2, but I don’t think for admissions purposes they have a particular edge over category 3. They can have an edge at OCI for big firms, mostly because they have some context for big firm work and experience in that white collar sector can translate to more effective interviewing. But this experience also isn’t required to do well at OCI.

Having work experience at all is, I think, the important thing. In part, it helps you get a job because employers know that they won’t have to teach you how to be an employee, period, at the same time they have to teach you their job. I think it will also help with interviewing generally, even without white collar-specific experience.

That said, KJDs still succeed all the time, at both admissions and OCI.

(I’ve defaulted to biglaw because so many people here want to do that - I think prior relevant experience can be a little more pertinent for some mission-driven public sector stuff - more like impact lit and non-profit work than government - but again, plenty of people succeed in those fields without relevant previous experience.)

In any case, you have the job opportunities that you have. You can’t magically will yourself into category 1, and frankly a lot of people don’t have access to category 2 (depending on location/alma mater) or just aren’t interested in category 2. Sure, some jobs are fancier and shinier-looking than others. But if you can’t get one of those, you’re not foreclosed from anything. And for admissions purposes, much more important than having a specific job is putting your own experience into a compelling, well-crafted narrative in which you can explain why you did whatever job you did and, more importantly, why it makes you someone they should admit to their school. So driving for Uber/waitressing/bartending isn’t going to keep you from getting into a top school - assuming you have the rest of the qualifications to get in, of course. (And this is going to be even more the case, as already mentioned, because of the economic impact of Covid.)

Besides, what is your alternative? If we all said “Uber/waitressing/bartending *will* get you shot down compared to the fancy paralegals” [but it won’t], what would you do instead? It’s definitely better to do whatever ordinary job than to keep applying for something shinier, not get it, and not have work experience at all.

Basically, law is really a generalist degree - people come to it from all kinds of different fields and experiences and it has no real prereqs (unlike most other grad programs). You don’t have to show you have specific experience already to get in/get a job, you just have to show potential.

(Okay I had no intention of writing a tome but I guess I feel strongly about this!)