HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

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Libya

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HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by Libya » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:11 pm

HLS just announced it will be virtual this fall. If your schools goes virtual and you are a 0L I’d defer if it is feasible, unless there is a SERIOUS tuition reduction. Fall 1L online, with grades, could easily become a shit show. Just my 2 cents as a law student.

Throwaway5818

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by Throwaway5818 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:40 pm

I didn't learn shit from my virtual classes, it's just not a conducive forum to learning the law. Can't believe Harvard would do this.

nixy

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by nixy » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:59 pm

LOTS of schools are going to be virtual this fall, even if they haven't admitted it yet. Harvard's doing it because they feel they have to, because they can't guarantee the safety of students or faculty or staff.

That said, I totally get not wanting to attend virtual classes. I'm only saying that "can't believe Harvard would do this" seems to entirely ignore the reality of the pandemic.

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mudiverse

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by mudiverse » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:30 pm

HLS may be virtual but deferring (if that is even permitted) implies that you have an alternative opportunity that you can pursue in the gap year. If that's the case I would support deferring, but if you are sitting on your hands for a year you may as well attend online classes at HLS.

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Yugihoe

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by Yugihoe » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:33 pm

Definitely would not pay 60k to get on zoom lessons.

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nixy

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by nixy » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:20 am

mudiverse wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:30 pm
HLS may be virtual but deferring (if that is even permitted) implies that you have an alternative opportunity that you can pursue in the gap year. If that's the case I would support deferring, but if you are sitting on your hands for a year you may as well attend online classes at HLS.
I agree with this. If you have a job already or can get one, or some kind of meaningful volunteer experience or such, great. If you don’t, no reason not to attend virtual classes. Law school’s graded on a curve. And you’re still going to end up with a Harvard degree, which is what you’re paying the $60k for.

msf305

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by msf305 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:10 am

Yugihoe wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:33 pm
Definitely would not pay 60k to get on zoom lessons.
Defer defer defer

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blackmamba8

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by blackmamba8 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:29 am

mudiverse wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:30 pm
HLS may be virtual but deferring (if that is even permitted) implies that you have an alternative opportunity that you can pursue in the gap year. If that's the case I would support deferring, but if you are sitting on your hands for a year you may as well attend online classes at HLS.
I disagree. Zoom classes were absolutely terrible last semester. I barely learned anything after we switched over. If I was a 1L, I would definitely not want to start law school online. The first semester is too important.

nixy

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by nixy » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:01 pm

Switching to zoom classes in the middle of a semester isn’t really representative of online classes - professors who’ve never taught online before having to convert a class not designed to be taught online within like 2 weeks’ time and then teach to students whose circumstances all vary and from their own home often with a working spouse and/or kids at home is a recipe for disaster.

That said, some of those circumstances aren’t going to go away by the fall, but because schools/profs have had the opportunity to plan, the classes should at least be better in the fall. How much better, I can’t say, of course.

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rk42

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by rk42 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:43 pm

Just a note on deferrals, Harvard is saying that if they get too many requests, you might need to defer for 2 years instead of 1.

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zhenders

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by zhenders » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:47 am

This is dumb advice. Don’t defer. The time value of money is significant. This is just reality right now; make the best of it. You’ll still get a killer education—you just might need to do a bit of extra reading on the side.

AdieuCali

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by AdieuCali » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:49 am

nixy wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:01 pm
Switching to zoom classes in the middle of a semester isn’t really representative of online classes - professors who’ve never taught online before having to convert a class not designed to be taught online within like 2 weeks’ time and then teach to students whose circumstances all vary and from their own home often with a working spouse and/or kids at home is a recipe for disaster.

That said, some of those circumstances aren’t going to go away by the fall, but because schools/profs have had the opportunity to plan, the classes should at least be better in the fall. How much better, I can’t say, of course.
+1. I didn't learn anything last semester, but I think that was mostly due to the lack of grade pressure and having to establish a new study rhythm on the fly when my kid's daycare shut down.

I did a master's program completely online a few years ago and it was fine. Most people in law school aren't in study groups and don't routinely go to office hours, so there won't be much of a difference to the average student. You're on a curve, so everyone will be at the same disadvantage.

If you can stay with family and set up a private study area, you're going to save a ton on rent compared to Boston, NYC, SF. If you can't, get a short term lease in a low-COL area.

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logan3000

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by logan3000 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:34 am

also will add that I’d actually prefer a blanket “online only” than some sort of hybrid setup.

granted, I have a comfortable home life at my parents’ so I can value saving the $10k or so on rent, plus will have had a good 5 months practice of WFH by the time of matriculation. so, I can definitely understand that it won’t work for everyone and of course it’s not ideal for me, but there are for sure some silver linings for me (esp if it means I get off the HLS WL when in other years I may not).

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LBJ's Hair

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by LBJ's Hair » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:22 pm

The Zoom thing doesn't really matter. I'd defer for job market -- OCI in 2021 could be brutal. Better to be another year out of pandemic

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Re: HLS is virtual this fall; you should defer

Post by law5man1 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:13 am

Long time lurker, first time poster. I went to HLS about a decade ago. One of the best parts of my experience was getting to know my classmates and spending time and hanging out with them. I am still in touch with many of my law school friends, and they have been vital to me throughout my career. One should not underestimate the connections you can make at a school like HLS. Personally, I don't think it is possible to get to know one's classmates over zoom as well as one could in person, so I echo those suggesting deferring law school one year if that is possible.

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