Law School after failing a different grad program Forum

[ags]

Around 5 years ago I began a Physician Assistant program. The final semester of the first year I failed a class. I could have retaken that class and graduated a semester late, but I decided that I didn't want to finish.

My motivation for applying to PA school and enrolling was that throughout my life a few close family members and me all had serious, unrelated illnesses. (Cancer, leukemia, ALS) I thought that since I received great medical care, I would want to provide similar care to people in need. However, upon enrolling, I quickly realized that being back in the hospital was the worst thing for me - it brought back a bunch of bad memories. I did what I could to finish, but my heart just wasn't in it.

After some time and healing, I am seriously considering applying to law school. I currently work with government contracts. While my work doesn't require a law degree, I can see the power that even a misplaced comma can have on the meaning of a contract.

My question for you, internet, is do you think I have a shot at getting into a decent school with not finishing PA school on my record? My first inclination is to just apply and see what happens, but am wondering how I should set my expectations. My UGPA is 3.55 and my Grad GPA is 3.1, even with failing the class. Haven't taken the LSAT yet.

Thanks!

[decimalsanddollars]

An undergrad GPA of 3.55 will make the top few schools tough without a stellar LSAT (and Yale/Stanford are probably categorically off the table), but nothing you've described will keep you from getting admitted to law school. Most schools simply don't care how well or how poorly you did in grad school; the numbers that matter most are LSAT and undergrad GPA, in that order. Having another grad degree is generally considered a positive "soft factor," and failure in grad school (probably like termination from a job just after college) is probably negative, but the effect is minimal---particularly because you have substantial post-grad work experience, which is another positive "soft factor."

Make sure you want to be a lawyer before committing to going to law school, and research potential outcomes so that you can make as informed a decision as possible. Beyond that, a good enough LSAT will enable you to get into (almost) any law school.

[bajablast]

It is 100% true that your LSAT score and undergrad GPA (in that order) are the most critical and determinative factors in your application.

However, I worked as a student admissions interviewer so I feel like I can provide some anecdotal insight. While the grad school dropout will not determine your application, you will be asked about it if interviewed and your answer to this question is probably going to be given a ton of weight into your soft portion of your application (what kind of person is this? how do they respond to failure? why did they fail? etc.). Maybe not since it sounds like it was for pretty personal reasons, but I think everyone in the admissions committee is going to be wondering what is going to keep you from dropping out of grad school again. So this could either be an opportunity or something negative. Honestly writing about how you moved on from this part of your life may be a good personal statement.

[nixy]

I'd also suggest reframing it as "choosing not to finish" rather than "failing." I know that you did fail one class, but you chose not to retake it and not to complete the degree. That's totally fine.

[Wild Card]

If you prepare an addendum simply stating what you wrote here, which is persuasive and understandable, you should be fine.

[ags]

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.

I think at this point, given a competitive LSAT, who reads my application is just as important as what is in it. I'm sure some admissions committee members would be skeptical of me while others, who may have some experience with health issues, might be more understanding.

I'll probably apply to schools in the top 20 and see what happens. It only takes one acceptance to become a lawyer.

[cavalier1138]

I'll probably apply to schools in the top 20 and see what happens. It only takes one acceptance to become a lawyer.

Please be very wary of adopting this attitude. Your debt and career prospects at graduation are far more important than getting to write "Esq." after your name.

[Miss Trial]

It only takes one acceptance to become a lawyer.

It takes way more than one acceptance. It takes three years, 10 weeks of intense bar prep, several thousand dollars in exam fees, and $300,000 in student loans. Don't downplay this.

[QContinuum]

It only takes one acceptance to become a lawyer.

It takes way more than one acceptance. It takes three years, 10 weeks of intense bar prep, several thousand dollars in exam fees, and $300,000 in student loans. Don't downplay this.

In addition, it also entails 3 years of foregone salary. Even at the federal minimum wage of $7.25 (and a college grad competitive for a T20 law school admission is almost certainly going to be able to secure a job paying far more than $7.25, not to mention that many cities/states have far higher minimum wages - NYC's up to $15), that's $45k in income over 3 years that you're giving up by attending law school.

[ags]

Wow. I must have really touched a nerve to get 3 replies about half of a sentence.

I don’t remember typing that I thought becoming a lawyer was easy or cheap. I simply meant that if I applied to 10 schools and received 9 rejections and 1 acceptance I could be a lawyer. I don’t need 7/10 acceptances, although that would be nice. Just one understanding AdCom will do the trick.

Good luck to all of you.

[cavalier1138]

Wow. I must have really touched a nerve to get 3 replies about half of a sentence.

I don’t remember typing that I thought becoming a lawyer was easy or cheap. I simply meant that if I applied to 10 schools and received 9 rejections and 1 acceptance I could be a lawyer. I don’t need 7/10 acceptances, although that would be nice. Just one understanding AdCom will do the trick.

Good luck to all of you.

I strongly urge you to re-read the replies with less of a defensive attitude. The point was not what you took away.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I don’t remember typing that I thought becoming a lawyer was easy or cheap. I simply meant that if I applied to 10 schools and received 9 rejections and 1 acceptance I could be a lawyer. I don’t need 7/10 acceptances, although that would be nice. Just one understanding AdCom will do the trick.

This is incorrect. Acceptance to law school is a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition to being a lawyer. Hope this helps.

[ags]

I strongly urge you to re-read the replies with less of a defensive attitude. The point was not what you took away.

You know what? You're right. I usually have my guard up on the internet, but I don't really know these forums and you don't know me. I try to assume best intentions in real life, so why not do it here? Have an awesome weekend!

This is incorrect. Acceptance to law school is a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition to being a lawyer. Hope this helps.

While your condition is correct, my use of the word 'could' negates any assumption of sufficiency. Thus, we are saying the same thing. Anyway, love your name.

[The Lsat Airbender]

This is incorrect. Acceptance to law school is a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition to being a lawyer. Hope this helps.

While your condition is correct, my use of the word 'could' negates any assumption of sufficiency.

Exactly, as in, "You could make better choices." Possible but apparently quite unlikely.

[ags]

This is incorrect. Acceptance to law school is a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition to being a lawyer. Hope this helps.

While your condition is correct, my use of the word 'could' negates any assumption of sufficiency.

Exactly, as in, "You could make better choices." Possible but apparently quite unlikely.

I think it is more like, "If I post 581 times on an internet forum, I could say something useful." For some reason, on my thread, it isn't happening for you. I was just here for advice on what I thought was a unique situation. I have my answer and will now let this thread slowly wither away.

[Johnnybgoode92]

This is incorrect. Acceptance to law school is a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition to being a lawyer. Hope this helps.

While your condition is correct, my use of the word 'could' negates any assumption of sufficiency.

Exactly, as in, "You could make better choices." Possible but apparently quite unlikely.

I think it is more like, "If I post 581 times on an internet forum, I could say something useful." For some reason, on my thread, it isn't happening for you. I was just here for advice on what I thought was a unique situation. I have my answer and will now let this thread slowly wither away.

Follow your dreams!!!!