HLS or Reapply? Forum

[yalegal2023]

Please don't quote this.

I'm currently on deferral at HLS. I'm considering rescinding my deferral and applying to Yale in the next two weeks. I didn't even apply last year because I figured I wouldn't get in, but now I regret that. I've decided that Yale is a much better fit for my interests. I would ideally be an academic in something like jurisprudence. Plus, I prefer the culture and general feel of the place. It's where I want to go, basically.

My concern is that my numbers are marginal for YLS (3.78/177), and while my softs are impressive enough by most standards, I don't have a Rhodes or something. So, let's say I don't get in this cycle and reapply to the t6 next year, do you think my results would be similar to when I applied last year? What I'm doing this year is in line with my previous resume, so again, good but not phenomenal. I assume HLS would be out, but might Chicago or Columbia offer me similar scholarships? I was waitlisted at Stanford last time, but would actually prefer going there to HLS, so applying is a plus.

Is this idea crazy? I was talking to my family and they told me I must have absolutely lost it.

[Npret]

If you want Yale, the only way to get there is to apply. You aren’t crazy for wanting Yale if you recognize that the program, location, smaller class size, professors, etc better fit your career goals.

You will be trading a certain admission at HLS for an unknown at Yale. Giving up Harvard shouldn’t hurt you with admissions at schools you haven’t deferred and then rejected, like Columbia or Chicago.

Maybe this question needs expert advice from someone at Spivey admissions group? Maybe they can help you assess your realistic chances of getting your Yale admission. You need data that we can’t provide.

The only question is if you don’t get Yale, will you be able to live with the decision to forego Harvard?

[Eggs]

If you want Yale, the only way to get there is to apply. You aren’t crazy for wanting Yale if you recognize that the program, location, smaller class size, professors, etc better fit your career goals.

You will be trading a certain admission at HLS for an unknown at Yale. Giving up Harvard shouldn’t hurt you with admissions at schools you haven’t deferred and then rejected, like Columbia or Chicago.

Maybe this question needs expert advice from someone at Spivey admissions group? Maybe they can help you assess your realistic chances of getting your Yale admission. You need data that we can’t provide.

The only question is if you don’t get Yale, will you be able to live with the decision to forego Harvard?

Ok, I gotta ask. Are you a Spivey consultant or has just not one taught you about the concept of “no free ads”?

[Npret]

No I don’t work for Spivey. I have nothing to do with them. I think they have a former Yale admissions person on staff.

I don’t know what else to suggest to OP.

How would you decide to give up Harvard for an application at Yale? If he cancels his deferral, Harvard isn’t taking him back.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I doubt the margin between Yale and Harvard is worth the gamble. This is probably reading the tea leaves a little too much, but your WL outcome at Stanford implies that you don't have the amazing softs necessary to overcome a 3.78 at Yale either.

It sounds like you're just getting cold feet. Understandably - this is a huge life event, like a wedding or a home purchase, and people often get into "what could have been"-style choice paralysis at these times. But unless you truly believe you'd be unhappy or unsuccessful at Harvard I wouldn't overthink things. If you picked HLS over substantial scholarships at CCN then you presumably wanted to go pretty badly at some point - has anything meaningfully changed in your life since then?

[QContinuum]

I doubt the margin between Yale and Harvard is worth the gamble. This is probably reading the tea leaves a little too much, but your WL outcome at Stanford implies that you don't have the amazing softs necessary to overcome a 3.78 at Yale either.

It sounds like you're just getting cold feet. Understandably - this is a huge life event, like a wedding or a home purchase, and people often get into "what could have been"-style choice paralysis at these times. But unless you truly believe you'd be unhappy or unsuccessful at Harvard I wouldn't overthink things. If you picked HLS over substantial scholarships at CCN then you presumably wanted to go pretty badly at some point - has anything meaningfully changed in your life since then?

I agree with LSAT Airbender's analysis above. I think the Stanford WL decision is strongly probative vis-a-vis OP's chances of getting into Yale. (Of course, there is always some uncertainty when it comes to getting in to Y & S, so I wouldn't say the Stanford outcome is conclusive re: OP's chances at YLS. But Yale admits typically also get into Stanford, which is less selective than Y.)

I think there is a real difference between Y & H, but OP is in a unique situation here because she'd be definitively giving up H in exchange for an extremely speculative shot at Y. The outcome could very easily be OP being "forced" to matriculate at CCN instead. Given that OP has already decided that she would rather go to H than go to CCN on the cheap*, I suspect OP would be devastated if she ended up "having" to go to CCN. So given the odds here, I don't think it's worth the gamble.

*Note, I am not endorsing OP's choice to turn down CCN with $$$ for H. I will refrain from reviewing the merits of that decision because that choice has already been made - OP is not currently deciding whether to turn down CCN.

[The Lsat Airbender]

*Note, I am not endorsing OP's choice to turn down CCN with $$$ for H. I will refrain from reviewing the merits of that decision because that choice has already been made - OP is not currently deciding whether to turn down CCN.

Yeah, I'm enough of a debt hawk to say that picking Harvard over substantial money at Chicago/Columbia was probably a mistake. But it's nowhere near the sort of objectively stupid, shoot-yourself-in-the-foot choice that would justify reneging a deferral - HLS will give OP a solid chance to realise their academia goals and has strong enough job outcomes in general to justify its cost.

[Eggs]

No I don’t work for Spivey. I have nothing to do with them. I think they have a former Yale admissions person on staff.

I don’t know what else to suggest to OP.

How would you decide to give up Harvard for an application at Yale? If he cancels his deferral, Harvard isn’t taking him back.

Just messing with ya man. Thought the 2 AM post time would make that apparent haha

[dropout]

Yeah, I'm enough of a debt hawk to say that picking Harvard over substantial money at Chicago/Columbia was probably a mistake. But it's nowhere near the sort of objectively stupid, shoot-yourself-in-the-foot choice that would justify reneging a deferral - HLS will give OP a solid chance to realise their academia goals and has strong enough job outcomes in general to justify its cost.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking. There are plenty of HLS grads in academia.

[yalegal2023]

Thanks for the analysis, Airbender and Q. I agree that it would be crazy to throw away H for a 20% chance at Y. Maybe I am just having cold feet.

[yalegal2023]

I doubt the margin between Yale and Harvard is worth the gamble. This is probably reading the tea leaves a little too much, but your WL outcome at Stanford implies that you don't have the amazing softs necessary to overcome a 3.78 at Yale either.

It sounds like you're just getting cold feet. Understandably - this is a huge life event, like a wedding or a home purchase, and people often get into "what could have been"-style choice paralysis at these times. But unless you truly believe you'd be unhappy or unsuccessful at Harvard I wouldn't overthink things. If you picked HLS over substantial scholarships at CCN then you presumably wanted to go pretty badly at some point - has anything meaningfully changed in your life since then?

I agree with LSAT Airbender's analysis above. I think the Stanford WL decision is strongly probative vis-a-vis OP's chances of getting into Yale. (Of course, there is always some uncertainty when it comes to getting in to Y & S, so I wouldn't say the Stanford outcome is conclusive re: OP's chances at YLS. But Yale admits typically also get into Stanford, which is less selective than Y.)

I think there is a real difference between Y & H, but OP is in a unique situation here because she'd be definitively giving up H in exchange for an extremely speculative shot at Y. The outcome could very easily be OP being "forced" to matriculate at CCN instead. Given that OP has already decided that she would rather go to H than go to CCN on the cheap*, I suspect OP would be devastated if she ended up "having" to go to CCN. So given the odds here, I don't think it's worth the gamble.

*Note, I am not endorsing OP's choice to turn down CCN with $$$ for H. I will refrain from reviewing the merits of that decision because that choice has already been made - OP is not currently deciding whether to turn down CCN.

Most of my reason for choosing HLS over CCN with $$ is that I just hadn't looked at the hard data, which seems to indicate that, for things like clerkships and other selective outcomes, it's really Y>>SHCCN. If I had a re-do, I'd take one of the half-scholarships at CCN. Although my resume has improved in interesting ways in the last year, I'm not sure if that would make up for the fact that I already turned down those schools if I reapplied.

[QContinuum]

Most of my reason for choosing HLS over CCN with $$ is that I just hadn't looked at the hard data, which seems to indicate that, for things like clerkships and other selective outcomes, it's really Y>>SHCCN. If I had a re-do, I'd take one of the half-scholarships at CCN. Although my resume has improved in interesting ways in the last year, I'm not sure if that would make up for the fact that I already turned down those schools if I reapplied.

FWIW, I think that if you did reapply (and I'm not saying you should necessarily do this), you would be admitted to CCN again, likely with similar or even increased merit aid, as your resume has improved in the intervening year. The only reason H will be out in the reapplication scenario is because you would then have reneged on a deferral. Unless you defer and then renege on the deferral, typically schools don't hold any grudges against an applicant for reapplying.

[Npret]

Most of my reason for choosing HLS over CCN with $$ is that I just hadn't looked at the hard data, which seems to indicate that, for things like clerkships and other selective outcomes, it's really Y>>SHCCN. If I had a re-do, I'd take one of the half-scholarships at CCN. Although my resume has improved in interesting ways in the last year, I'm not sure if that would make up for the fact that I already turned down those schools if I reapplied.

FWIW, I think that if you did reapply (and I'm not saying you should necessarily do this), you would be admitted to CCN again, likely with similar or even increased merit aid, as your resume has improved in the intervening year. The only reason H will be out in the reapplication scenario is because you would then have reneged on a deferral. Unless you defer and then renege on the deferral, typically schools don't hold any grudges against an applicant for reapplying.

I have seen people not be reaccepted at Harvard and other schools. I feel that a person who rejects the top offer a school has - like the Hamilton - and then reapplies won’t be accepted, similar to reneging on a deferral. For lesser offers of financial aid, people should be reaccepted.

Schools don’t want to tie up top scholarships to people who have declined them when they have new applicants to attract.

[Npret]

I am not advising people not to reapply. I can’t 100% predict what will happen to applications. Just be careful about assuming the same options will be available.