Confused about "employment data" - reliable? Forum

[LegalBiology]

So I am a NC resident and considering UNC chapel hill

here are the aba statistics for employment/income within 10 months

http://www.law.unc.edu/career/employmentdata/

private sector median salary just over 100,000, with 75th around 140,000. I'm assuming they place most people around NC (probably a lot in Charlotte) where the cost of living isn't that high.

.....so, isn't that pretty good? am I wrong that even 100,000 isn't a bad salary, especially where the debt from UNC is going to be lower?

or is this information wrong/unreliable?

they say only go to a top 14 school to make money but I'd be happy with 6 figures

[QContinuum]

I doubt the data is fake, but it's almost certainly misleading. Legal salaries are bimodal. There are very few jobs that actually pay in the low six figures, in between BigLaw and non-BigLaw. IOW, very few people will actually make the median salary. Instead, people will either make much more or much less than the calculated median.

Charlotte BigLaw is small and extremely hard to get, from what I've heard. I wouldn't bank on landing Charlotte BigLaw out of UNC. Its placement rate isn't awful - 31% BigLaw/fed. clerk for the class of 2017 - but you'd still need to be top quarter, preferably top fifth to be comfortable landing BigLaw anywhere.

[AJordan]

So I am a NC resident and considering UNC chapel hill

here are the aba statistics for employment/income within 10 months

http://www.law.unc.edu/career/employmentdata/

private sector median salary just over 100,000, with 75th around 140,000. I'm assuming they place most people around NC (probably a lot in Charlotte) where the cost of living isn't that high.

.....so, isn't that pretty good? am I wrong that even 100,000 isn't a bad salary, especially where the debt from UNC is going to be lower?

or is this information wrong/unreliable?

they say only go to a top 14 school to make money but I'd be happy with 6 figures

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/unc/sals/

Of UNC's 2017 class, 88 of their 229 graduates landed attorney jobs in the private firm sector. The top half of that group is in biglaw and likely doing well enough to service loan debt. The bottom half has an attorney job in a glutted market but they probably have a chance to earn a good living and live comfortably, especially if they continue the hustle and actually enjoy the job.

The question lies with the rest. roughly 20% of the class is unemployed or working a job that's half a step above unemployment. That's an equal number to the biglaw placement btw. The rest are in some sort of government, business, public interest, all valuable fields, certainly, but not one I'd be comfortable entering with any debt at all. Median at UNC looks dicey imo and I certainly wouldn't pay to go there with those job placement numbers.

So, yeah, they probably have some self selection into government and public interest and there are the fed clerk numbers which are extant, but those might need to be weighed against 10-15 attorney jobs that are legacy handouts for whatever reason. UNC looks like a solid regional where top 10% has a good shot at BL/FC and median has a good shot to get a job of some sort in North Carolina that will provide comfortable living.

It's all cost benefit analysis. If it's free, you have network/ties there, and you want to stay in North Carolina, UNC is a perfectly fine choice. Being debt free really is the kicker. It's hard to know what we want, even as we get older. I'm in my 30s and just decided to change careers last year. I do feel like debt has become more real for me as I've gotten older. I had 10k of debt at one point and felt crushed. I can't imagine what 250k of nondischargeable debt feels like. Everything is MUCH less risky if it's free. You're already losing 3 years of earning potential on a gambit that you can make that up later. Paying to do so makes it all the more tenuous a proposition.

[LegalBiology]

So I am a NC resident and considering UNC chapel hill

here are the aba statistics for employment/income within 10 months

http://www.law.unc.edu/career/employmentdata/

private sector median salary just over 100,000, with 75th around 140,000. I'm assuming they place most people around NC (probably a lot in Charlotte) where the cost of living isn't that high.

.....so, isn't that pretty good? am I wrong that even 100,000 isn't a bad salary, especially where the debt from UNC is going to be lower?

or is this information wrong/unreliable?

they say only go to a top 14 school to make money but I'd be happy with 6 figures

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/unc/sals/

Of UNC's 2017 class, 88 of their 229 graduates landed attorney jobs in the private firm sector. The top half of that group is in biglaw and likely doing well enough to service loan debt. The bottom half has an attorney job in a glutted market but they probably have a chance to earn a good living and live comfortably, especially if they continue the hustle and actually enjoy the job.

The question lies with the rest. roughly 20% of the class is unemployed or working a job that's half a step above unemployment. That's an equal number to the biglaw placement btw. The rest are in some sort of government, business, public interest, all valuable fields, certainly, but not one I'd be comfortable entering with any debt at all. Median at UNC looks dicey imo and I certainly wouldn't pay to go there with those job placement numbers.

So, yeah, they probably have some self selection into government and public interest and there are the fed clerk numbers which are extant, but those might need to be weighed against 10-15 attorney jobs that are legacy handouts for whatever reason. UNC looks like a solid regional where top 10% has a good shot at BL/FC and median has a good shot to get a job of some sort in North Carolina that will provide comfortable living.

It's all cost benefit analysis. If it's free, you have network/ties there, and you want to stay in North Carolina, UNC is a perfectly fine choice. Being debt free really is the kicker. It's hard to know what we want, even as we get older. I'm in my 30s and just decided to change careers last year. I do feel like debt has become more real for me as I've gotten older. I had 10k of debt at one point and felt crushed. I can't imagine what 250k of nondischargeable debt feels like. Everything is MUCH less risky if it's free. You're already losing 3 years of earning potential on a gambit that you can make that up later. Paying to do so makes it all the more tenuous a proposition.

oh, thanks for the info and the site.

2 questions - 1 i know this probably gets asked a lot but how plausible is it to be in the top 20/25% of your class, say with an LSAT that is top quarter for admissions? and 2, i have a B.S. in Biochemistry from a top 20 undergrad and am planning on doing patent law - does that provide any sort of boost in terms of job prospects/pay?

[AJordan]

I know next to nothing about patent lit but anecdotally I've heard the only major employers were specifically looking for enough to move a needle was EE

[UVA2B]

Wanting to go into patent law will add an additional variable to your hirability, but that shouldn’t cause you to approach this decision differently. Where most law students rely on their grades, law school pedigree, and prior work experience to become hirable, you’ll be able to show patent bar eligibility and a tech background, which those hiring in the big patent fields (lit and pros) will weigh favorably. It at least puts you into a marginally smaller bin of candidates to pick from. But that bin still has more toys than there are kids to pick up those toys, so you can’t just ignore your prospective school’s data in hopes of beating the odds because you’re going into patent law (potentially).

And while EE is desirable in patent law, biochemistry will “move the needle” as well. This is speaking about prosecution more than it is litigation, but both backgrounds are valuable with the right additional background (good law school, good grades, potentially any work experience in the field).

Edit: as for getting good grades, it’s possible, but can’t be planned for or worked for in advance. Your best assumption going into law school is that you’ll be approximately median GPA. That’s just the nature of law school and the forced curve grading.