Transferring FROM HLS to CLS/YLS. Forum

[R_B_Me]

Edited/deleted. Thanks for the advice everyone. After thinking it through, I don't think I'll be submitting any transfer applications.

[april_ludgate]

0L here, but I remember reading a Spivey article about how even transferring up has big repercussions, like not getting on law review and essentially losing your 1L grades. So I guess you'd have to weight those losses in

[GreenEggs]

Didn't read it all so sorry if I'm missing something in there. But honestly if you're just going to be that much happier not at HLS then transfer to CLS/NYU. I knew a kid at NYU who transferred to Boalt after 1L because he hated living in NYC. Ended up 100x happier.

Another consideration is just really minimizing the time you spend at HLS. Look to doing semester long externships in NYC/visiting student 3L if that's a thing? / stack classes to Mon-Weds so you can take a bus back ever week to NYC for the rest of the week. There are other options, but don't stick somewhere you're not happy just because you feel you have to -- I've made that mistake and regret it

[R_B_Me]

0L here, but I remember reading a Spivey article about how even transferring up has big repercussions, like not getting on law review and essentially losing your 1L grades.

So, law review is something I really need to research more. If you asked me right now, I'd say that I'd only do it if having it will significantly benefit me during OCI, even in light of good grades. Without researching more, I'd say that I have no genuine interest in doing it apart from OCI benefits. I think the last thing I should be doing after having picked HLS primarily for prestige at the cost of happiness, is do something very time-consuming at HLS for prestige over happiness. Where does it end, you know?

I'm also exploring studying away at CLS for a semester or year. Have to research that more too.

[UVA2B]

If you realized it this early on, you might want to consider just dropping out and reapplying next year. You could still get apps together for next fall and give yourself shot at some scholarships. I know that doesn’t sound great because redoing 1L fall semester would be a whole bucket of yuck, but it’s an option.

Absent that, you should do what it takes to transfer back to CLS/NYU. You’ll be happier, you’ll still have largely the same opportunities available to you, and you might actually improve your performance due to being personally happier.

There is no shame in realizing you made a mistake and want to do what is necessary to right that mistake. Given your reasons, no one in the legal world will question your decision.

[R_B_Me]

If you realized it this early on, you might want to consider just dropping out and reapplying next year.

I suppose I could, but I think I'd hate that even more. I've already been out of school for a while (won't say more for privacy reasons) and would like to graduate in 2020 very much. I like being in the working world a lot, and would not like to postpone that another year.

[UVA2B]

If you realized it this early on, you might want to consider just dropping out and reapplying next year.

I suppose I could, but I think I'd hate that even more. I've already been out of school for a while (won't say more for privacy reasons) and would like to graduate in 2020 very much. I like being in the working world a lot, and would not like to postpone that another year.

That's fair, I just raised it in case you hadn't considered it. And it has the benefit of getting you back to NYC after this semester and potentially costing a lot less. But it's totally your decision to make.

Just remember that you're probably internally overselling yourself how important graduating from HLS will be for what you want to do. In terms of private practice placement, CLS is entirely on par with HLS, even among the most elite firm outcomes. So really you're not giving up anything there for your happiness. Unless you're receiving significant need-based aid at HLS, start working toward a transfer now.

[Rigo]

Transferring to Columbia would be quite the financial hit, I'd imagine, since you'd be going for two years at sticker (and a tough pill to swallow since I'm sure you initially got money).
Try for Yale or stick Harvard out.

The NYC person being unhappy first year in Cambridge is a fairly common phenomena.

[R_B_Me]

Transferring to Columbia would be quite the financial hit, I'd imagine, since you'd be going for two years at sticker (and a tough pill to swallow since I'm sure you initially got money).
Try for Yale or stick Harvard out.

The NYC person being unhappy first year in Cambridge is a fairly common phenomena.

Yeah, Yale would fix a lot of this, assuming they give finaid to transfers. Columbia categorically does not? I should talk to them and see what, if anything, can be done.

Staying at Harvard could work but I’d have to make a lot more NYC trips for my sanity (which is expensive unless I take the 4-6 hour bus ride, and on weekends, it can be closer to 6 due to traffic bottlenecks on both sides, even when you try to time it right).

It’s funny, about an hour ago, I was doing chores in my apartment and just started getting reinvigorated about the idea of being here (at Harvard) but on my terms, meaning: not taking any classes I don’t want to take, actively doing the extracurricular activities I didn’t 1st semester (which in retrospect I could have fit in), building relationships with the people I actually truly click with (who tend to be more conservative and older), and building relationships with professors.

Maybe I will give this next semester a real go, make a real 110% effort to have the HLS experience I want, and go from there.

[blueapple]

Maybe I will give this next semester a real go, make a real 110% effort to have the HLS experience I want, and go from there.

I would really recommend this. It sounds like you were born and raised in NY and have never spent significant (or any?) time living outside of the city so I get why you feel that way. In high school I moved from NY to a different part of the country and was miserable for almost two years. I refused to try to enjoy my new surroundings because I was committed to being miserable. Finally I got tired of that and by the end of high school I liked where I was and had made friends and felt really dumb about pining after NY for two years.

I think you are a combination of (a) homesick because you haven't been away from NY much before and (b) overwhelmed by adjusting to 1L (I'm just extrapolating from your last post where you talk about imagining doing next semester at HLS on your own terms), and so I think your missing NY might be magnified by the stress of law school. Obviously those stresses are easier to handle when you have your usual support system nearby, but I wouldn't write off HLS quite yet. I think if you start to make the effort to make law school an experience you enjoy, you might be surprised by what a difference that makes. I know that's easier said than done, but being able to adjust to these new surroundings is a really useful life skill that I am so glad I was forced to pick up, even though I hated my parents for it at the time.

Not to say that you won't find that you still want to transfer come May. I'm just saying that you might as well try to make the next semester a positive experience so that you can be sure you gave living out of NY your best shot.

[R_B_Me]

Maybe I will give this next semester a real go, make a real 110% effort to have the HLS experience I want, and go from there.

I would really recommend this. It sounds like you were born and raised in NY and have never spent significant (or any?) time living outside of the city so I get why you feel that way....

...I think you are a combination of (a) homesick because you haven't been away from NY much before and (b) overwhelmed by adjusting to 1L (I'm just extrapolating from your last post where you talk about imagining doing next semester at HLS on your own terms)...

...I know that's easier said than done, but being able to adjust to these new surroundings is a really useful life skill that I am so glad I was forced to pick up, even though I hated my parents for it at the time.

Not to say that you won't find that you still want to transfer come May. I'm just saying that you might as well try to make the next semester a positive experience so that you can be sure you gave living out of NY your best shot.

I agree I should try to make next semester as positive as possible. I just think I tried a decent amount to do that this semester. But not being able to pick any of my classes and being at the whims of a few unsavory folks (separate story entirely) was definitely part of the problem. Also dropped an extracurricular I really cared about and regretted it, so will be dropping back in.

As for NY, I've actually moved around a fair bit, including outside the US and not going to college in NYC, which is why I value so much knowing where I'm happy (NY) and staying there. I'm also very fortunate to have rebuilt old childhood friendships with so many folks in NY and gotten close to family friends and that's why it's even more difficult to not be there and more telling that I'm *so* homesick. College was a different story because we were all away in college, but now, the majority of my friends/family/social circle are all NY-based for the long run (or as long as they can predict in their late 20s, 30s and 40s), so I'm the one no longer there, but they are all there. I think that's why it's hard.

In any event, I'm making a few calls and sending a few emails today to start trying to make next semester work out, including switching a class in my schedule and emailing folks in one of my extracurriculars about getting involved again in the spring.

Thanks!

[doggozeg]

Just intern and then work in New York. It's not worth transferring from such a good school in my opinion. You can make it through.

[R_B_Me]

Just intern and then work in New York. It's not worth transferring from such a good school in my opinion. You can make it through.

Thx! I will intern there both summers, and at the very least travel there regularly during the semesters. I suppose if I have to spend more of my summer earnings on trains/flights to NY in future years for my sanity, even an an extra $1-2K would be a drop in the bucket compared to losing certain benefits of the Harvard name, which are at least worth more than a couple grand...lol

And someone above also suggested stacking my schedule M-W so I can spend the second half of the week in NY if I want to. Totally possible. I've actually heard of students doing this before, not sure why it didn't occur to me that I can start doing this relatively soon.

[heythatslife]

Maybe I will give this next semester a real go, make a real 110% effort to have the HLS experience I want, and go from there.

I would really recommend this. It sounds like you were born and raised in NY and have never spent significant (or any?) time living outside of the city so I get why you feel that way. In high school I moved from NY to a different part of the country and was miserable for almost two years. I refused to try to enjoy my new surroundings because I was committed to being miserable. Finally I got tired of that and by the end of high school I liked where I was and had made friends and felt really dumb about pining after NY for two years.

I think you are a combination of (a) homesick because you haven't been away from NY much before and (b) overwhelmed by adjusting to 1L (I'm just extrapolating from your last post where you talk about imagining doing next semester at HLS on your own terms), and so I think your missing NY might be magnified by the stress of law school. Obviously those stresses are easier to handle when you have your usual support system nearby, but I wouldn't write off HLS quite yet. I think if you start to make the effort to make law school an experience you enjoy, you might be surprised by what a difference that makes. I know that's easier said than done, but being able to adjust to these new surroundings is a really useful life skill that I am so glad I was forced to pick up, even though I hated my parents for it at the time.

Not to say that you won't find that you still want to transfer come May. I'm just saying that you might as well try to make the next semester a positive experience so that you can be sure you gave living out of NY your best shot.

I agree with this. If you can find a way to make it work in HLS, then it seems like the best solution.

If Cambridge is the problem, New Haven itself is even worse and NYC is still too far. And I've never heard of any school giving non-need-based aid to transfers - after all, what incentives do schools have? - so paying sticker at CLS for 2 years will likely be a financial hit.

Look, first semester of 1L is a stressful time for anyone. It does get better. The gunnerism and competitiveness will tone down after the first semester. The cliquey-ness of sections and the passive jabbings that occur there will fade. You'll get to pick your own classes and have more control over your schedule. For my entire 3L year, I packed all my classes into Mon-Wed so I could go to NYC every week for 4 days and be with my SO. Obviously, you should do what you feel would make you the happiest but these are my 2 cents.

[jingosaur]

I'm am HLS grad who has similar feelings about New York being great and hating Boston. 2L and 3L were actually way worse because of this and I think a lot about how it would have been better if I transferred. I could see a lot of issues with your job search if you transferred down because every interview would be a 20 minute conversation about why you transferred. But other than that, I would say to go with your gut.

[R_B_Me]

I'm am HLS grad who has similar feelings about New York being great and hating Boston. 2L and 3L were actually way worse because of this and I think a lot about how it would have been better if I transferred. I could see a lot of issues with your job search if you transferred down because every interview would be a 20 minute conversation about why you transferred. But other than that, I would say to go with your gut.

Wrinkle/twist: What if I were to do a 1L SA firm gig in NY at a firm I like, and it happened to end in an offer subject to a touchback (not common but happens)? Obviously I’d be up front with them during the summer or at the end of the summer about considering going to Columbia. Assuming I’d have already applied to transfer and gotten in, would it be a bad move to ask the firm (before accepting the transfer offer) if being a Columbia student by the time I return for a touchback and a Columbia grad when I return as an associate would affect the likelihood of joining the firm)?

Argh, even that sounds complicated and probably doesn’t sound good from their POV since surely they’d be factoring in getting a HLS grad into giving me an offer. Probably not even worth the risk. Agree/disagree?

[R_B_Me]

If Cambridge is the problem, New Haven itself is even worse and NYC is still too far....

...Look, first semester of 1L is a stressful time for anyone. It does get better...

Good points. I’ll still be spending most of my time wherever I am attending school. Making Boston a bigger part of my life (rather than being holed up in Cambridge) is a safer bet than being in New Haven in terms of my desire to enjoy a city environment while attending school.

New Haven is much more accessible to NYC which does make a difference, but staying at HLS while doing a visiting semester at CLS or spending half-weeks in NYC while remaining full-time at HLS all 3 years would spare me the downsides of actually transferring and having to make new relationships with professors/students.

[dabigchina]

Maybe I will give this next semester a real go, make a real 110% effort to have the HLS experience I want, and go from there.

I would really recommend this. It sounds like you were born and raised in NY and have never spent significant (or any?) time living outside of the city so I get why you feel that way. In high school I moved from NY to a different part of the country and was miserable for almost two years. I refused to try to enjoy my new surroundings because I was committed to being miserable. Finally I got tired of that and by the end of high school I liked where I was and had made friends and felt really dumb about pining after NY for two years.

I think you are a combination of (a) homesick because you haven't been away from NY much before and (b) overwhelmed by adjusting to 1L (I'm just extrapolating from your last post where you talk about imagining doing next semester at HLS on your own terms), and so I think your missing NY might be magnified by the stress of law school. Obviously those stresses are easier to handle when you have your usual support system nearby, but I wouldn't write off HLS quite yet. I think if you start to make the effort to make law school an experience you enjoy, you might be surprised by what a difference that makes. I know that's easier said than done, but being able to adjust to these new surroundings is a really useful life skill that I am so glad I was forced to pick up, even though I hated my parents for it at the time.

Not to say that you won't find that you still want to transfer come May. I'm just saying that you might as well try to make the next semester a positive experience so that you can be sure you gave living out of NY your best shot.

I agree with this. If you can find a way to make it work in HLS, then it seems like the best solution.

If Cambridge is the problem, New Haven itself is even worse and NYC is still too far. And I've never heard of any school giving non-need-based aid to transfers - after all, what incentives do schools have? - so paying sticker at CLS for 2 years will likely be a financial hit.

Look, first semester of 1L is a stressful time for anyone. It does get better. The gunnerism and competitiveness will tone down after the first semester. The cliquey-ness of sections and the passive jabbings that occur there will fade. You'll get to pick your own classes and have more control over your schedule. For my entire 3L year, I packed all my classes into Mon-Wed so I could go to NYC every week for 4 days and be with my SO. Obviously, you should do what you feel would make you the happiest but these are my 2 cents.

I agree with this 100%. Then again, I've never felt particularly fond about Morningside Heights or NYC in general.

[jingosaur]

I'm am HLS grad who has similar feelings about New York being great and hating Boston. 2L and 3L were actually way worse because of this and I think a lot about how it would have been better if I transferred. I could see a lot of issues with your job search if you transferred down because every interview would be a 20 minute conversation about why you transferred. But other than that, I would say to go with your gut.

Wrinkle/twist: What if I were to do a 1L SA firm gig in NY at a firm I like, and it happened to end in an offer subject to a touchback (not common but happens)? Obviously I’d be up front with them during the summer or at the end of the summer about considering going to Columbia. Assuming I’d have already applied to transfer and gotten in, would it be a bad move to ask the firm (before accepting the transfer offer) if being a Columbia student by the time I return for a touchback and a Columbia grad when I return as an associate would affect the likelihood of joining the firm)?

Argh, even that sounds complicated and probably doesn’t sound good from their POV since surely they’d be factoring in getting a HLS grad into giving me an offer. Probably not even worth the risk. Agree/disagree?

Once you got the 2L offer they likely wouldn't care about you transferring to Columbia