Questions from an engineering grad applying to law school Forum

[BigBear85]

Hello TLS community,

I am a long-time lurker and first-time poster, and I want to thank you for the frank (though at times extremely cynical) advice posted on this forum. I am in the process of preparing for admission in Fall 2018, and am currently studying hard for the September LSAT. I have some questions about my background and how to prepare the best application for my goals, and I would really appreciate any help.

My background is BS/MS engineering degrees from a Top-15 USNWR university. My undergrad GPA was 3.50, master GPA 3.38 (bad grade in a research course) and I completed both degrees in 4 years. I also took 4 additional upper-undergrad courses after graduation for fun (two of them were literature/writing courses - any area I have had a lifelong interest in) and got all A's, but I understand these won't count for LSAC GPA purposes. I am a few years out of school and my WE includes some corporate internships, some full-time tech transfer work, and some entrepreneurial stock investment research work.

My goal is to practice law in Chicago, and from some informational conversations I've had it seems like I would most like litigation work. It seems like IP litigation may be the path of least resistance to getting a job with my background. I also like to argue with my mom if that is a good indication of liking litigation?

So here are my questions:
1. Who should I ask to write my recommendations? One literature professor (very good relationship) from a post-undergrad course, and one science/engineering professor (graduated a few years ago so they won't remember me)? Maybe one work colleague who is a medical doctor and mentor to my entrepreneurial work (outstanding relationship)? I don't have strong relationships with work supervisors. What should these people comment on to help boost my candidacy?

2. I know this is might be a difficult question, but what LSAT score would I need to get significant money at the T14? I am studying very rigorously (full-time at the moment) for the upcoming September test, and I want to be sure I target the score I need. I know TLS hates hypothetical questions, but if I were to score a 176+, could I get a hefty scholarship at NU/UChicago, or have a shot at HLS with a great story?

3. Do you think adcoms would take into account the difficulty of my course of study and my statement of purpose (ie. not interested in being an engineer/scientist, but very interested in how the legal architecture can create a system of scientific innovation. I think my experience supports my claim strongly). I have seen people get flamed on this forum for asking if engineers get an unofficial GPA "bump" from adcoms, but I have the same question. I think the average undergrad engineering GPA in my school/major was a 3.3-3.4 (not sure), which I have seen to be the case in most engineering programs.

Thanks a bunch for reading my long post. I would really appreciate any thoughts/advice as I go through this process. If you had asked me what I wanted to be when I was in high school, I would have instantly replied "lawyer". Outside influences formed some of my decisions since then, and I wasn't really doing something I was passionate about. But I think I would enjoy a legal career because of the analytical thinking and argumentation involved, and the opportunity to do good as a lawyer (even though I fully understand the junior years are not glamorous at all).

Thank you for your help!

[pancakes3]

1) the LOR don't matter much. numbers are 90% of the game. your softs (LOR, personal statement, experience, major, etc) distinguish you from others with identical GPA/LSAT but nailing the LSAT is really all that matters.

2) the answer to "what LSAT do i need?" is "as high as you can possibly score." a 176 is def a good goal and will net your substantial T13 scholly even with a 3.5 GPA. i think you should def aim for hefty NU for your admission goal. you're above the 25th percentile for GPA and if you score substantially higher than their 75th (170) scholly should be headed your way.

3) unfortunately the raw GPA is mostly what matters for adcoms. there may be some consideration that you're patent-bar eligible but it's a marginal bump at best.

4*) even though you were STEM, I wouldn't resign yourself as patent lit unless you're either 1) gung ho about patent, or 2) 1L gpa came out a little iffy and you want to rely on a patent boost come OCI. being argumentative with your mom doesn't mean you're a born litigator. however, your PS about how you like analytical thinking and being able to parse through difficult/inaccessible raw data and digesting it into something meaningful is a very standard, and serviceable PS topic.

[SplitMyPants]

get 175+ on the LSAT; ED northwestern; profit / enjoy chicago

seriously, though---your gpa is what it is, and while theyll look more favorably upon your major so as to not look down on the gpa in a wholistic sense, it is still a negative wrt their numbers so to get $$$ at the T14 it will be crucial to kill the LSAT (175+) and ensure youll be above all of their 75-percentile LSAT numbers. as an engineer, you're in a good spot to do that. statistically, engineering majors score higher on the lsat, so don't get complacent and just focus on killing the lsat and the rest will hopefully follow.

regarding your thoughts on patent lit, what area of engineering did you major in? some are way more in demand than others. and regardless, as pancakes noted, you may end up far more interested in another are of law.

finally, im also a bs/ms in engineering with a 3.4x ugrad gpa. its just one data point, but ill pm my LSN profile from a few cycles ago

[guynourmin]

A couple 3.5/170-171's got the NU ed scholarship this year.

[BigBear85]

Thank you all for the helpful replies!

[Future Ex-Engineer]

Hello TLS community,

I am a long-time lurker and first-time poster, and I want to thank you for the frank (though at times extremely cynical) advice posted on this forum. I am in the process of preparing for admission in Fall 2018, and am currently studying hard for the September LSAT. I have some questions about my background and how to prepare the best application for my goals, and I would really appreciate any help.

My background is BS/MS engineering degrees from a Top-15 USNWR university. My undergrad GPA was 3.50, master GPA 3.38 (bad grade in a research course) and I completed both degrees in 4 years. I also took 4 additional upper-undergrad courses after graduation for fun (two of them were literature/writing courses - any area I have had a lifelong interest in) and got all A's, but I understand these won't count for LSAC GPA purposes. I am a few years out of school and my WE includes some corporate internships, some full-time tech transfer work, and some entrepreneurial stock investment research work.

My goal is to practice law in Chicago, and from some informational conversations I've had it seems like I would most like litigation work. It seems like IP litigation may be the path of least resistance to getting a job with my background. I also like to argue with my mom if that is a good indication of liking litigation?
No. That just means you like to argue with your mother. Pretty common.

So here are my questions:
1. Who should I ask to write my recommendations? One literature professor (very good relationship) from a post-undergrad course, and one science/engineering professor (graduated a few years ago so they won't remember me)? Maybe one work colleague who is a medical doctor and mentor to my entrepreneurial work (outstanding relationship)? I don't have strong relationships with work supervisors. What should these people comment on to help boost my candidacy?

I'd stick with past professors. Had my graduate advisor and another prof I was very close with write mine.
2. I know this is might be a difficult question, but what LSAT score would I need to get significant money at the T14? I am studying very rigorously (full-time at the moment) for the upcoming September test, and I want to be sure I target the score I need. I know TLS hates hypothetical questions, but if I were to score a 176+, could I get a hefty scholarship at NU/UChicago, or have a shot at HLS with a great story?

Always shoot for 180. That being said, 172+ should give you a shot at NU ED. I doubt you'll get a significant scholarship at UChi regardless with your GPA, but who knows for sure.

3. Do you think adcoms would take into account the difficulty of my course of study and my statement of purpose (ie. not interested in being an engineer/scientist, but very interested in how the legal architecture can create a system of scientific innovation. I think my experience supports my claim strongly). I have seen people get flamed on this forum for asking if engineers get an unofficial GPA "bump" from adcoms, but I have the same question. I think the average undergrad engineering GPA in my school/major was a 3.3-3.4 (not sure), which I have seen to be the case in most engineering programs.

I think it may get a slight consideration, but doubt it affects much. I think adcoms are more likely to give a bump to kids from schools known for grade deflation over someone coming out with a difficult major. (anecdotally, someone with a worse GPA than me, and only 1 point better LSAT got a Dillard at UVA this past year. We were both sub 170, but I had essentially a perfect GPA/3.7x grad gpa, and he only had a BA with a 3.8 GPA.
He went to one of the Quaker schools known for gpa deflation)

Thanks a bunch for reading my long post. I would really appreciate any thoughts/advice as I go through this process. If you had asked me what I wanted to be when I was in high school, I would have instantly replied "lawyer". Outside influences formed some of my decisions since then, and I wasn't really doing something I was passionate about. But I think I would enjoy a legal career because of the analytical thinking and argumentation involved, and the opportunity to do good as a lawyer (even though I fully understand the junior years are not glamorous at all).

Thank you for your help!