Speculation about Schools Following Harvard? Forum

[Veil of Ignorance]

I'm wondering whether you all think there's a chance that other schools in the T14 are going to follow Harvard and start allowing the GRE during the 2017-2018 admission cycle. If a school was planning on implementing that policy, by when do you think they would announce it? Do you think we are just going to have to wait until application open in August/September to find if the T14 is going full-GRE?

[baseballfan660]

according to Dave from Powerscore it will only be Harvard this year from the T-14 most likely. The schools have to do a study first to prove their is a correlation between GRE success and Law School success.

[Veil of Ignorance]

according to Dave from Powerscore it will only be Harvard this year from the T-14 most likely. The schools have to do a study first to prove their is a correlation between GRE success and Law School success.

Whew. Who would've thought that law school admissions was such a wild ride

[grades??]

Remember, its the t13. I heard speculation at my t10 today that the admin was going to meet about doing this asap.

[Veil of Ignorance]

Remember, its the t13. I heard speculation at my t10 today that the admin was going to meet about doing this asap.

"Doing this" meaning conduct a study or accept the GRE?

[grades??]

Remember, its the t13. I heard speculation at my t10 today that the admin was going to meet about doing this asap.

"Doing this" meaning conduct a study or accept the GRE?

No idea, speculation. I imagine they are gonna meet to talk about the H move and see how viable it is to implement sooner rather than later aka next year.

[SlackOff]

It's a win/win for law schools, so they'll probably all follow in suit eventually...

As a splitter, I'm probably going to actually fucking cry if they do.

[Npret]

It's a win/win for law schools, so they'll probably all follow in suit eventually...

As a splitter, I'm probably going to actually fucking cry if they do.

It's a win/win for some applicants too. Just not the ones that post here apparently. But don't give up hope yet. I doubt US News will drop the LSAT from the rankings. This is all speculation that splitters are hurt. The idea is to broaden the applicant pool not to cut out a large segment of it.

I'm surprised people don't seem happier about this decision.

[ImGonnaTakeGRE]

It's a win/win for law schools, so they'll probably all follow in suit eventually...

As a splitter, I'm probably going to actually fucking cry if they do.

It's a win/win for some applicants too. Just not the ones that post here apparently. But don't give up hope yet. I doubt US News will drop the LSAT from the rankings. This is all speculation that splitters are hurt. The idea is to broaden the applicant pool not to cut out a large segment of it.

I'm surprised people don't seem happier about this decision.

Pure anecdotal but I never gave law school real consideration because I didn't want to invest time & energy to LSAT. But now I'm giving it more thought because a JD could be beneficial for my career. Same with a couple of my friends I talked with at HBS & HKS who are now thinking of pursuing dual degrees.

[lymenheimer]

It's a win/win for law schools, so they'll probably all follow in suit eventually...

As a splitter, I'm probably going to actually fucking cry if they do.

It's a win/win for some applicants too. Just not the ones that post here apparently. But don't give up hope yet. I doubt US News will drop the LSAT from the rankings. This is all speculation that splitters are hurt. The idea is to broaden the applicant pool not to cut out a large segment of it.

I'm surprised people don't seem happier about this decision.

Because the legal market definitely isn't over-saturated as it stands...

[Npret]

It's a win/win for law schools, so they'll probably all follow in suit eventually...

As a splitter, I'm probably going to actually fucking cry if they do.

It's a win/win for some applicants too. Just not the ones that post here apparently. But don't give up hope yet. I doubt US News will drop the LSAT from the rankings. This is all speculation that splitters are hurt. The idea is to broaden the applicant pool not to cut out a large segment of it.

I'm surprised people don't seem happier about this decision.

Because the legal market definitely isn't over-saturated as it stands...

I don't understand how this makes more lawyers? I thought people were upset that their personal chances at becoming lawyers could be harmed?

You mean lower schools being able to admit on GRE? Don't quite follow.

[lymenheimer]

Because the legal market definitely isn't over-saturated as it stands...

I don't understand how this makes more lawyers? I thought people were upset that their personal chances at becoming lawyers could be harmed?

You mean lower schools being able to admit on GRE? Don't quite follow.

Yea. I'm slightly conflating. And making broad assumptions. But if other schools follow, kids will get bumped down: H-GRE kids will bump out some [previous] H-LSAT kids. Who will bump kids lower down. There are some schools that won't think twice about taking on more tuition payers = more law students -> grads -> lawyers.

Opening up admission to GRE kids could lead to more whimsical "oh I want to be a lawyer now", and we have plenty of those as it is even with the LSAT as a "barrier to entry".

[SlackOff]

It's a win/win for some applicants too. Just not the ones that post here apparently. But don't give up hope yet. I doubt US News will drop the LSAT from the rankings. This is all speculation that splitters are hurt. The idea is to broaden the applicant pool not to cut out a large segment of it.

I'm surprised people don't seem happier about this decision.

Well...

Because the legal market definitely isn't over-saturated as it stands...

This.
The number of spots stays the same, the number of applicants goes up.

Plus, the rules have changed in a way that obviously disadvantges splitters. Sure the LSAT won't be eliminated for ranking purposes, but it's a lot easier and more appealing for a school to take a ton of 3.9/perfect GREs and a few (figuratively speaking, of course) 3.9/175s and have awesome numbers than it is to bother taking people with low GPAs or low LSATs.

Then again, if this doesn't catch on with other schools, I don't really care... But it'll almost certainly catch on, since it's a win/win for schools.

[Po$eidon]

As someone who teaches LSAT it's pretty much a disaster for the (very large I might add) LSAT market that's developed around the LSAT. Like, reeeeeaaalllly bad. It will destroy the purpose of LSAT study for virtually everyone that doesn't already have a high GPA. I don't see how LSAC is not currently running around with their hair on fire screaming.

[ImGonnaTakeGRE]

As someone who teaches LSAT it's pretty much a disaster for the (very large I might add) LSAT market that's developed around the LSAT. Like, reeeeeaaalllly bad. It will destroy the purpose of LSAT study for virtually everyone that doesn't already have a high GPA. I don't see how LSAC is not currently running around with their hair on fire screaming.

Why would it be really bad for LSAT? Business schools accept GRE but applicants predominantly still take GMAT.

[SlackOff]

As someone who teaches LSAT it's pretty much a disaster for the (very large I might add) LSAT market that's developed around the LSAT. Like, reeeeeaaalllly bad. It will destroy the purpose of LSAT study even applying to law school for virtually everyone that doesn't already have a high GPA. I don't see how LSAC is not currently running around with their hair on fire screaming.

[Po$eidon]

As someone who teaches LSAT it's pretty much a disaster for the (very large I might add) LSAT market that's developed around the LSAT. Like, reeeeeaaalllly bad. It will destroy the purpose of LSAT study even applying to law school for virtually everyone that doesn't already have a high GPA. I don't see how LSAC is not currently running around with their hair on fire screaming.

That is totally true. Which will, further, destroy the LSAT market which largely is based around the idea that LSAT score can move mountains (won't move crap after this)

[Po$eidon]

^Also I'd argue that Harvard is probably the single worst institution to try pulling this for the LSAT market: lay prestige matters in marketing and Harvard is the king of that. Further, it is simultaneously very prestigious and has a very large class size. If a lower tier school attempted this other institutions would shrug but also if either Stanford or Yale pulled this most institutions would be like "but only they can get away with it". Harvard is like a dam breaking.

[Veil of Ignorance]

according to Dave from Powerscore it will only be Harvard this year from the T-14 most likely. The schools have to do a study first to prove their is a correlation between GRE success and Law School success.

Could you provide the quote for that, though?

[baseballfan660]

according to Dave from Powerscore it will only be Harvard this year from the T-14 most likely. The schools have to do a study first to prove their is a correlation between GRE success and Law School success.

Could you provide the quote for that, though?

it's on his twitter. Spivey also talked about it in his advice thread I believe. They seem to think it will be a few years before it is widely accepted at other schools.

[Npret]

It's a win/win for law schools, so they'll probably all follow in suit eventually...

As a splitter, I'm probably going to actually fucking cry if they do.

It's a win/win for some applicants too. Just not the ones that post here apparently. But don't give up hope yet. I doubt US News will drop the LSAT from the rankings. This is all speculation that splitters are hurt. The idea is to broaden the applicant pool not to cut out a large segment of it.

I'm surprised people don't seem happier about this decision.

Pure anecdotal but I never gave law school real consideration because I didn't want to invest time & energy to LSAT. But now I'm giving it more thought because a JD could be beneficial for my career. Same with a couple of my friends I talked with at HBS & HKS who are now thinking of pursuing dual degrees.

What career is that? I mean the test isn't worth your time but 3 additional years of school is?

[Platopus]

Opening up admission to GRE kids could lead to more whimsical "oh I want to be a lawyer now", and we have plenty of those as it is even with the LSAT as a "barrier to entry".

Yup, this about sums it up.

^Also I'd argue that Harvard is probably the single worst institution to try pulling this for the LSAT market: lay prestige matters in marketing and Harvard is the king of that. Further, it is simultaneously very prestigious and has a very large class size. If a lower tier school attempted this other institutions would shrug but also if either Stanford or Yale pulled this most institutions would be like "but only they can get away with it". Harvard is like a dam breaking.

I wonder what effect this will have on Harvard's yield. Potentially admittedly students with only a mild inclination toward law school and a legal career will affect yield, as I would assume a larger percentage of these students (as opposed to students who are dead-set on law school) will possibly attend PHd programs, etc. instead of HLS. It seems like HLS would be forced to admitted many more students to fill an equivalent class size. Handing out acceptances to people with only mild interest in attending seems like brand deflation to me.

[ImGonnaTakeGRE]

It's a win/win for law schools, so they'll probably all follow in suit eventually...

As a splitter, I'm probably going to actually fucking cry if they do.

It's a win/win for some applicants too. Just not the ones that post here apparently. But don't give up hope yet. I doubt US News will drop the LSAT from the rankings. This is all speculation that splitters are hurt. The idea is to broaden the applicant pool not to cut out a large segment of it.

I'm surprised people don't seem happier about this decision.

Pure anecdotal but I never gave law school real consideration because I didn't want to invest time & energy to LSAT. But now I'm giving it more thought because a JD could be beneficial for my career. Same with a couple of my friends I talked with at HBS & HKS who are now thinking of pursuing dual degrees.

What career is that? I mean the test isn't worth your time but 3 additional years of school is?

Corporate M&A. Again, I know and have read the countless books & websites saying that there's no job that requires a dual JD/MBA. So I never gave law school much serious thought. But considering I'm heading to b-school in the fall and already have GRE scores, why not?

[Npret]

It's a win/win for law schools, so they'll probably all follow in suit eventually...

As a splitter, I'm probably going to actually fucking cry if they do.

It's a win/win for some applicants too. Just not the ones that post here apparently. But don't give up hope yet. I doubt US News will drop the LSAT from the rankings. This is all speculation that splitters are hurt. The idea is to broaden the applicant pool not to cut out a large segment of it.

I'm surprised people don't seem happier about this decision.

Pure anecdotal but I never gave law school real consideration because I didn't want to invest time & energy to LSAT. But now I'm giving it more thought because a JD could be beneficial for my career. Same with a couple of my friends I talked with at HBS & HKS who are now thinking of pursuing dual degrees.

What career is that? I mean the test isn't worth your time but 3 additional years of school is?

Corporate M&A. Again, I know and have read the countless books & websites saying that there's no job that requires a dual JD/MBA. So I never gave law school much serious thought. But considering I'm heading to b-school in the fall and already have GRE scores, why not?

Because it's a waste of time and money? In fact it's a much bigger waste of time and money then studying and taking exam. I think possibly you need to understand a little bit more about law school.

But you do you.

[somedeadman]

So in theory, if you have a GPA below t14 median, you need to get your ass in school pronto?