2018 USNWR Rankings Forum

[Joined4Knowledge]

Yes, all those kids at the international SAT-prep academy were really hoping to get into no-name state schools because they're research POWERHOUSES.

You're making Duke sound much better than it is... It's a border-line local school, man.. although I'm not exactly sure where In NC it is. So...https://i.imgflip.com/1l7zn7.jpg

[magnum_law]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example? C'mon man. Also, Duke definitely crushes Berk in lay prestige generally... it gets too mucked up with UCLA, etc.

[Easterbork]

Who cares about national lay prestige though.
Joe the Plumber isn't a hiring partner.

Neither is Brittany

[RedPurpleBlue]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

Man, I really hope Brown and Vanderbilt can eventually close the gap on UCSD/B.

Vanderbilt? Sure. Brown? Never. Brown is pretty much hot garbage in terms of graduate programs and far too small.

[LurkerTurnedMember]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example? C'mon man. Also, Duke definitely crushes Berk in lay prestige generally... it gets too mucked up with UCLA, etc.

For law school, of course not! Yale beats Berkeley hands down. I think our earlier discussion was mostly about lay prestige generally and not specifically to law school. I think if you talk about prestige with respect to law school specifically, then you're automatically cutting off everyday people, so there's no such thing as lay prestige for law schools. So you gotta talk about the school generally, which is what I thought we were talking about. So, generally, Berkeley and Yale I think are about the same nationally, although Berkeley takes the cake by a bit at least internationally. You can't deny history at Berkeley. I didn't even go there. I went to U of Chicago. But sometimes I read these forums and I'm so surprised. There was a guy trying to say Vandy is better than Berkeley. Before this, in another thread, another person tried saying WashU was better than Columbia. Come on now. You can't deny Berkeley's history and standing. The free speech/rights movement, the constant leader of progressivism, it's on the media all the time. Turn on CNN, there's Robert Reich from Berkeley, turn on the local news, there are protests at Berkeley (which I'm 100% sure wouldn't have been covered so nationally if it happened at some other university with a different history), the military including it in their commercials in the Midwest as a top school along with MIT and Harvard, the reputation rankings, both national and international, always putting it up high. I didn't go there and I'm U of Chi all the way. But come on. You can't tell me Duke, which is known for basketball generally, beats Berkeley. It's Berkeley.

[Hikikomorist]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example? C'mon man. Also, Duke definitely crushes Berk in lay prestige generally... it gets too mucked up with UCLA, etc.

For law school, of course not! Yale beats Berkeley hands down. I think our earlier discussion was mostly about lay prestige generally and not specifically to law school. I think if you talk about prestige with respect to law school specifically, then you're automatically cutting off everyday people, so there's no such thing as lay prestige for law schools. So you gotta talk about the school generally, which is what I thought we were talking about. So, generally, Berkeley and Yale I think are about the same nationally, although Berkeley takes the cake by a bit at least internationally. You can't deny history at Berkeley. I didn't even go there. I went to U of Chicago. But sometimes I read these forums and I'm so surprised. There was a guy trying to say Vandy is better than Berkeley. Before this, in another thread, another person tried saying WashU was better than Columbia. Come on now. You can't deny Berkeley's history and standing. The free speech/rights movement, the constant leader of progressivism, it's on the media all the time. Turn on CNN, there's Robert Reich from Berkeley, turn on the local news, there are protests at Berkeley (which I'm 100% sure wouldn't have been covered so nationally if it happened at some other university with a different history), the military including it in their commercials in the Midwest as a top school along with MIT and Harvard, the reputation rankings, both national and international, always putting it up high. I didn't go there and I'm U of Chi all the way. But come on. You can't tell me Duke, which is known for basketball generally, beats Berkeley. It's Berkeley.

Oh, so it's trolling. Sorry it took me so long.

[Joined4Knowledge]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example? C'mon man. Also, Duke definitely crushes Berk in lay prestige generally... it gets too mucked up with UCLA, etc.

For law school, of course not! Yale beats Berkeley hands down. I think our earlier discussion was mostly about lay prestige generally and not specifically to law school. I think if you talk about prestige with respect to law school specifically, then you're automatically cutting off everyday people, so there's no such thing as lay prestige for law schools. So you gotta talk about the school generally, which is what I thought we were talking about. So, generally, Berkeley and Yale I think are about the same nationally, although Berkeley takes the cake by a bit at least internationally. You can't deny history at Berkeley. I didn't even go there. I went to U of Chicago. But sometimes I read these forums and I'm so surprised. There was a guy trying to say Vandy is better than Berkeley. Before this, in another thread, another person tried saying WashU was better than Columbia. Come on now. You can't deny Berkeley's history and standing. The free speech/rights movement, the constant leader of progressivism, it's on the media all the time. Turn on CNN, there's Robert Reich from Berkeley, turn on the local news, there are protests at Berkeley (which I'm 100% sure wouldn't have been covered so nationally if it happened at some other university with a different history), the military including it in their commercials in the Midwest as a top school along with MIT and Harvard, the reputation rankings, both national and international, always putting it up high. I didn't go there and I'm U of Chi all the way. But come on. You can't tell me Duke, which is known for basketball generally, beats Berkeley. It's Berkeley.

This ^^ My sister went to Stanford and she's helping me with the LSAT and application process in the next cycle. We had a talk about which schools I should be aiming for and stuff, and Berkeley was toward the top. Duke wasn't in the discussion almost at all other than it's also in the top 14 of schools. Of course, Stanford is the top school, followed by Yale, then Harvard.

My edit to this post: She went to Stanford Law, not Stanford undergrad.

[magnum_law]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example? C'mon man. Also, Duke definitely crushes Berk in lay prestige generally... it gets too mucked up with UCLA, etc.

For law school, of course not! Yale beats Berkeley hands down. I think our earlier discussion was mostly about lay prestige generally and not specifically to law school. I think if you talk about prestige with respect to law school specifically, then you're automatically cutting off everyday people, so there's no such thing as lay prestige for law schools. So you gotta talk about the school generally, which is what I thought we were talking about. So, generally, Berkeley and Yale I think are about the same nationally, although Berkeley takes the cake by a bit at least internationally. You can't deny history at Berkeley. I didn't even go there. I went to U of Chicago. But sometimes I read these forums and I'm so surprised. There was a guy trying to say Vandy is better than Berkeley. Before this, in another thread, another person tried saying WashU was better than Columbia. Come on now. You can't deny Berkeley's history and standing. The free speech/rights movement, the constant leader of progressivism, it's on the media all the time. Turn on CNN, there's Robert Reich from Berkeley, turn on the local news, there are protests at Berkeley (which I'm 100% sure wouldn't have been covered so nationally if it happened at some other university with a different history), the military including it in their commercials in the Midwest as a top school along with MIT and Harvard, the reputation rankings, both national and international, always putting it up high. I didn't go there and I'm U of Chi all the way. But come on. You can't tell me Duke, which is known for basketball generally, beats Berkeley. It's Berkeley.

With all due respect; no fucking way man..I gotta say that I completely disagree with you.

I was speaking of general lay prestige, not law school. I honestly can't say much about international reputations because I've never lived abroad, but I CAN speak for national lay prestige I think. And just to kind of push back on your international rankings point, just look at the national undergrad rankings.... Yale is at #3, Duke is at #8, while Berkeley is at #20! Berk and Yale are NOT in the same league nationally.... I'm from NY area and later in live moved to the South, and in both places, Berkeley and Vanderbilt are pretty comparable in prestige. The UG rankings also support this. (Although I agree that Berk is DEFINITELY better known than WashU.)

[magnum_law]

I genuinely think that this is an east coast, west coast thing going on... because I had a similar experience when looking at law schools. Barely even looked at/considered Berkeley. Doesn't really solicit any kind of impression on this side of the country in my experience. It's a known name, but it lacks that excitement in reactions that schools like Yale, Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Columbia, Duke, etc. get.

[Rigo]

Who cares about national lay prestige though.
Joe the Plumber isn't a hiring partner.

Neither is Brittany

?

[LurkerTurnedMember]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example? C'mon man. Also, Duke definitely crushes Berk in lay prestige generally... it gets too mucked up with UCLA, etc.

For law school, of course not! Yale beats Berkeley hands down. I think our earlier discussion was mostly about lay prestige generally and not specifically to law school. I think if you talk about prestige with respect to law school specifically, then you're automatically cutting off everyday people, so there's no such thing as lay prestige for law schools. So you gotta talk about the school generally, which is what I thought we were talking about. So, generally, Berkeley and Yale I think are about the same nationally, although Berkeley takes the cake by a bit at least internationally. You can't deny history at Berkeley. I didn't even go there. I went to U of Chicago. But sometimes I read these forums and I'm so surprised. There was a guy trying to say Vandy is better than Berkeley. Before this, in another thread, another person tried saying WashU was better than Columbia. Come on now. You can't deny Berkeley's history and standing. The free speech/rights movement, the constant leader of progressivism, it's on the media all the time. Turn on CNN, there's Robert Reich from Berkeley, turn on the local news, there are protests at Berkeley (which I'm 100% sure wouldn't have been covered so nationally if it happened at some other university with a different history), the military including it in their commercials in the Midwest as a top school along with MIT and Harvard, the reputation rankings, both national and international, always putting it up high. I didn't go there and I'm U of Chi all the way. But come on. You can't tell me Duke, which is known for basketball generally, beats Berkeley. It's Berkeley.

With all due respect; no fucking way man..I gotta say that I completely disagree with you.

I was speaking of general lay prestige, not law school. I honestly can't say much about international reputations because I've never lived abroad, but I CAN speak for national lay prestige I think. And just to kind of push back on your international rankings point, just look at the national undergrad rankings.... Yale is at #3, Duke is at #8, while Berkeley is at #20! Berk and Yale are NOT in the same league nationally.... I'm from NY area and later in live moved to the South, and in both places, Berkeley and Vanderbilt are pretty comparable in prestige. The UG rankings also support this. (Although I agree that Berk is DEFINITELY better known than WashU.)

Ok. I got ya. I think it just then comes to what information we rely on. So if we go by the national rankings, you're right. But if we consider more of the international rankings, then I'm right. Or I should say your or my position is "supported," not necessarily proved right. My thinking was just that if a school is so well known globally, then it trumps someone's regional reputation even if regionally another school is more known. So WashU is huge in St. Louis I'm sure since that's where it is, more so than Berkeley. But on a broader level, it doesn't compare to Berkeley. Similarly, sure, Yale might outrank Berkeley nationally and be better known, but my thought was that who cares if globally it's not on Berkeley's level. Same for Vandy in the Midwest, or a particular state in the U.S.

And I agree with the person above and the convo you had with your sister from Stanford. When I applied, I applied to almost all T14 schools, including Stanford, U of Chi, and Berkeley. But I didn't apply to Duke, and because I had the same perception as your sister. I'm not saying I'm right, or anyone else is wrong. I'm sure these things fluctuate depending on where you are and what information you have. I'm just putting in my two cents. And by the way, it goes U of Chicago, Yale, Stanford, then Harvard (then Columbia, NYU/Berkeley, Penn/UVA, Mich)

[Joined4Knowledge]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example? C'mon man. Also, Duke definitely crushes Berk in lay prestige generally... it gets too mucked up with UCLA, etc.

For law school, of course not! Yale beats Berkeley hands down. I think our earlier discussion was mostly about lay prestige generally and not specifically to law school. I think if you talk about prestige with respect to law school specifically, then you're automatically cutting off everyday people, so there's no such thing as lay prestige for law schools. So you gotta talk about the school generally, which is what I thought we were talking about. So, generally, Berkeley and Yale I think are about the same nationally, although Berkeley takes the cake by a bit at least internationally. You can't deny history at Berkeley. I didn't even go there. I went to U of Chicago. But sometimes I read these forums and I'm so surprised. There was a guy trying to say Vandy is better than Berkeley. Before this, in another thread, another person tried saying WashU was better than Columbia. Come on now. You can't deny Berkeley's history and standing. The free speech/rights movement, the constant leader of progressivism, it's on the media all the time. Turn on CNN, there's Robert Reich from Berkeley, turn on the local news, there are protests at Berkeley (which I'm 100% sure wouldn't have been covered so nationally if it happened at some other university with a different history), the military including it in their commercials in the Midwest as a top school along with MIT and Harvard, the reputation rankings, both national and international, always putting it up high. I didn't go there and I'm U of Chi all the way. But come on. You can't tell me Duke, which is known for basketball generally, beats Berkeley. It's Berkeley.

With all due respect; no fucking way man..I gotta say that I completely disagree with you.

I was speaking of general lay prestige, not law school. I honestly can't say much about international reputations because I've never lived abroad, but I CAN speak for national lay prestige I think. And just to kind of push back on your international rankings point, just look at the national undergrad rankings.... Yale is at #3, Duke is at #8, while Berkeley is at #20! Berk and Yale are NOT in the same league nationally.... I'm from NY area and later in live moved to the South, and in both places, Berkeley and Vanderbilt are pretty comparable in prestige. The UG rankings also support this. (Although I agree that Berk is DEFINITELY better known than WashU.)

Ok. I got ya. I think it just then comes to what information we rely on. So if we go by the national rankings, you're right. But if we consider more of the international rankings, then I'm right. Or I should say your or my position is "supported," not necessarily proved right. My thinking was just that if a school is so well known globally, then it trumps someone's regional reputation even if regionally another school is more known. So WashU is huge in St. Louis I'm sure since that's where it is, more so than Berkeley. But on a broader level, it doesn't compare to Berkeley. Similarly, sure, Yale might outrank Berkeley nationally and be better known, but my thought was that who cares if globally it's not on Berkeley's level. Same for Vandy in the Midwest, or a particular state in the U.S.

And I agree with the person above and the convo you had with your sister from Stanford. When I applied, I applied to almost all T14 schools, including Stanford, U of Chi, and Berkeley. But I didn't apply to Duke, and because I had the same perception as your sister. I'm not saying I'm right, or anyone else is wrong. I'm sure these things fluctuate depending on where you are and what information you have. I'm just putting in my two cents. And by the way, it goes U of Chicago, Yale, Stanford, then Harvard (then Columbia, NYU/Berkeley, Penn/UVA, Mich)

Wow!! That's so close to what she said.. She said Stanford, Yale, Harvard, University of Chicago, Columbia, "NYU and Berkeley although NYU is a bit better," and then the rest of the "top 14 schools," and she listed them off I forgot which order. Do you know a Julia at all? Maybe you know her...

My edit to this post: Sorry I forgot to ask if anyone took the GRE and what's going on with the GRE stuff? If we already took the LSAT, should we try taking the GRE? Is this going to be a thing now?

[LurkerTurnedMember]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example? C'mon man. Also, Duke definitely crushes Berk in lay prestige generally... it gets too mucked up with UCLA, etc.

For law school, of course not! Yale beats Berkeley hands down. I think our earlier discussion was mostly about lay prestige generally and not specifically to law school. I think if you talk about prestige with respect to law school specifically, then you're automatically cutting off everyday people, so there's no such thing as lay prestige for law schools. So you gotta talk about the school generally, which is what I thought we were talking about. So, generally, Berkeley and Yale I think are about the same nationally, although Berkeley takes the cake by a bit at least internationally. You can't deny history at Berkeley. I didn't even go there. I went to U of Chicago. But sometimes I read these forums and I'm so surprised. There was a guy trying to say Vandy is better than Berkeley. Before this, in another thread, another person tried saying WashU was better than Columbia. Come on now. You can't deny Berkeley's history and standing. The free speech/rights movement, the constant leader of progressivism, it's on the media all the time. Turn on CNN, there's Robert Reich from Berkeley, turn on the local news, there are protests at Berkeley (which I'm 100% sure wouldn't have been covered so nationally if it happened at some other university with a different history), the military including it in their commercials in the Midwest as a top school along with MIT and Harvard, the reputation rankings, both national and international, always putting it up high. I didn't go there and I'm U of Chi all the way. But come on. You can't tell me Duke, which is known for basketball generally, beats Berkeley. It's Berkeley.

With all due respect; no fucking way man..I gotta say that I completely disagree with you.

I was speaking of general lay prestige, not law school. I honestly can't say much about international reputations because I've never lived abroad, but I CAN speak for national lay prestige I think. And just to kind of push back on your international rankings point, just look at the national undergrad rankings.... Yale is at #3, Duke is at #8, while Berkeley is at #20! Berk and Yale are NOT in the same league nationally.... I'm from NY area and later in live moved to the South, and in both places, Berkeley and Vanderbilt are pretty comparable in prestige. The UG rankings also support this. (Although I agree that Berk is DEFINITELY better known than WashU.)

Ok. I got ya. I think it just then comes to what information we rely on. So if we go by the national rankings, you're right. But if we consider more of the international rankings, then I'm right. Or I should say your or my position is "supported," not necessarily proved right. My thinking was just that if a school is so well known globally, then it trumps someone's regional reputation even if regionally another school is more known. So WashU is huge in St. Louis I'm sure since that's where it is, more so than Berkeley. But on a broader level, it doesn't compare to Berkeley. Similarly, sure, Yale might outrank Berkeley nationally and be better known, but my thought was that who cares if globally it's not on Berkeley's level. Same for Vandy in the Midwest, or a particular state in the U.S.

And I agree with the person above and the convo you had with your sister from Stanford. When I applied, I applied to almost all T14 schools, including Stanford, U of Chi, and Berkeley. But I didn't apply to Duke, and because I had the same perception as your sister. I'm not saying I'm right, or anyone else is wrong. I'm sure these things fluctuate depending on where you are and what information you have. I'm just putting in my two cents. And by the way, it goes U of Chicago, Yale, Stanford, then Harvard (then Columbia, NYU/Berkeley, Penn/UVA, Mich)

Wow!! That's so close to what she said.. She said Stanford, Yale, Harvard, University of Chicago, Columbia, "NYU and Berkeley although NYU is a bit better," and then the rest of the "top 14 schools," and she listed them off I forgot which order. Do you know a Julia at all? Maybe you know her...

My edit to this post: Sorry I forgot to ask if anyone took the GRE and what's going on with the GRE stuff? If we already took the LSAT, should we try taking the GRE? Is this going to be a thing now?

Yea I know a Julia but it's not your sister. And not sure about the GRE. I hear it's a recent thing. I'm sure the LSAT alone will get you through the next application cycle. Good luck.

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

Who cares about national lay prestige though.
Joe the Plumber isn't a hiring partner.

Neither is Brittany

?

I assume they're implying that they will use the prestige to get laid

[Hikikomorist]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example? C'mon man. Also, Duke definitely crushes Berk in lay prestige generally... it gets too mucked up with UCLA, etc.

For law school, of course not! Yale beats Berkeley hands down. I think our earlier discussion was mostly about lay prestige generally and not specifically to law school. I think if you talk about prestige with respect to law school specifically, then you're automatically cutting off everyday people, so there's no such thing as lay prestige for law schools. So you gotta talk about the school generally, which is what I thought we were talking about. So, generally, Berkeley and Yale I think are about the same nationally, although Berkeley takes the cake by a bit at least internationally. You can't deny history at Berkeley. I didn't even go there. I went to U of Chicago. But sometimes I read these forums and I'm so surprised. There was a guy trying to say Vandy is better than Berkeley. Before this, in another thread, another person tried saying WashU was better than Columbia. Come on now. You can't deny Berkeley's history and standing. The free speech/rights movement, the constant leader of progressivism, it's on the media all the time. Turn on CNN, there's Robert Reich from Berkeley, turn on the local news, there are protests at Berkeley (which I'm 100% sure wouldn't have been covered so nationally if it happened at some other university with a different history), the military including it in their commercials in the Midwest as a top school along with MIT and Harvard, the reputation rankings, both national and international, always putting it up high. I didn't go there and I'm U of Chi all the way. But come on. You can't tell me Duke, which is known for basketball generally, beats Berkeley. It's Berkeley.

With all due respect; no fucking way man..I gotta say that I completely disagree with you.

I was speaking of general lay prestige, not law school. I honestly can't say much about international reputations because I've never lived abroad, but I CAN speak for national lay prestige I think. And just to kind of push back on your international rankings point, just look at the national undergrad rankings.... Yale is at #3, Duke is at #8, while Berkeley is at #20! Berk and Yale are NOT in the same league nationally.... I'm from NY area and later in live moved to the South, and in both places, Berkeley and Vanderbilt are pretty comparable in prestige. The UG rankings also support this. (Although I agree that Berk is DEFINITELY better known than WashU.)

Ok. I got ya. I think it just then comes to what information we rely on. So if we go by the national rankings, you're right. But if we consider more of the international rankings, then I'm right. Or I should say your or my position is "supported," not necessarily proved right. My thinking was just that if a school is so well known globally, then it trumps someone's regional reputation even if regionally another school is more known. So WashU is huge in St. Louis I'm sure since that's where it is, more so than Berkeley. But on a broader level, it doesn't compare to Berkeley. Similarly, sure, Yale might outrank Berkeley nationally and be better known, but my thought was that who cares if globally it's not on Berkeley's level. Same for Vandy in the Midwest, or a particular state in the U.S.

And I agree with the person above and the convo you had with your sister from Stanford. When I applied, I applied to almost all T14 schools, including Stanford, U of Chi, and Berkeley. But I didn't apply to Duke, and because I had the same perception as your sister. I'm not saying I'm right, or anyone else is wrong. I'm sure these things fluctuate depending on where you are and what information you have. I'm just putting in my two cents. And by the way, it goes U of Chicago, Yale, Stanford, then Harvard (then Columbia, NYU/Berkeley, Penn/UVA, Mich)

Are you crazy? International students don't see Berkeley as being on the same level as Yale. Stanford, sure, but not Berkeley. Public schools are not prestigious, because they don't have the per-student endowments of their private counterparts, and they're pressured into accepting in-state lemons.

[rpupkin]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example?

These are "global" rankings. In Europe and Asia, Berkeley is generally more highly regarded than Yale.

Also, the linked rankings appear to be based largely on "research" and other factors that would elevate schools with impressive overall graduate programs. In terms of the breadth and quality of its graduate programs, Berkeley's only real competition in the United States is Harvard. Berkeley has dozens of top-10 grad programs, and several top-3 programs. Which makes it all the more cringe-worthy that its law school is ranked 12th. LOL @ Boalttt.

[LurkerTurnedMember]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example?

These are "global" rankings. In Europe and Asia, Berkeley is generally more highly regarded than Yale.

Also, the linked rankings appear to be based largely on "research" and other factors that would elevate schools with impressive overall graduate programs. In terms of the breadth and quality of its graduate programs, Berkeley's only real competition in the United States is Harvard. Berkeley has dozens of top-10 grad programs, and several top-3 programs. Which makes it all the more cringe-worthy that its law school is ranked 12th. LOL @ Boalttt.

I kept thinking the same thing! Their law school might just need a solid dean and it'll level out. Isn't that what happened last time with that other dean? They were 6th at one point coming from 12th or so. But, who knows, according to Hikikomorist up there, who's in love with "private schools," a public school can never be good even if almost all of its graduate programs are insanely well ranked and actually really good because... public schools are yucky.

[Joined4Knowledge]

I asked my sister about Duke and she asked me if I really wanted to live in the midwest and if I did I should aim for Chicago I had to tell her Duke was in North Carolina....

[Macandcheese]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

According to your international rankings, university of Washington is "better" than Yale and UCSB is "better than northwestern which both seem waaaaaay off. Doesn't add much credibility to the rest of the study.

[Hikikomorist]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

These rankings are silly - you genuinely believe anyone in their right mind thinks of Berk as superior over Yale, for example?

These are "global" rankings. In Europe and Asia, Berkeley is generally more highly regarded than Yale.

Also, the linked rankings appear to be based largely on "research" and other factors that would elevate schools with impressive overall graduate programs. In terms of the breadth and quality of its graduate programs, Berkeley's only real competition in the United States is Harvard. Berkeley has dozens of top-10 grad programs, and several top-3 programs. Which makes it all the more cringe-worthy that its law school is ranked 12th. LOL @ Boalttt.

I kept thinking the same thing! Their law school might just need a solid dean and it'll level out. Isn't that what happened last time with that other dean? They were 6th at one point coming from 12th or so. But, who knows, according to Hikikomorist up there, who's in love with "private schools," a public school can never be good even if almost all of its graduate programs are insanely well ranked and actually really good because... public schools are yucky.

No one cares about graduate programs for lay prestige, except maybe the tippy-top of pre-professional graduate program rankings (e.g., HYS for law schools).

[LurkerTurnedMember]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

According to your international rankings, university of Washington is "better" than Yale and UCSB is "better than northwestern which both seem waaaaaay off. Doesn't add much credibility to the rest of the study.

I didn't say it's discussion-ending support for my two cents. I just used it to show the general global perception of schools. Like someone above said

Also, the linked rankings appear to be based largely on "research" and other factors that would elevate schools with impressive overall graduate programs. In terms of the breadth and quality of its graduate programs, Berkeley's only real competition in the United States is Harvard. Berkeley has dozens of top-10 grad programs, and several top-3 programs.

And to the future applicant above who wrote

I asked my sister about Duke and she asked me if I really wanted to live in the midwest and if I did I should aim for Chicago I had to tell her Duke was in North Carolina....

I didn't know where Duke was either when I was looking at schools. But just because a school doesn't have a ton of prestige nationally, doesn't mean it's not a good school. Duke is a good school and you should definitely consider applying and going there.

[rpupkin]

No one cares about graduate programs for lay prestige, except maybe the tippy-top of pre-professional graduate program rankings (e.g., HYS for law schools).

"No one cares about grad programs for lay prestige, except for law schools," said the law student. LOL @ this pathetic bubble.

In the real world, no one cares about our profession's silly prestige rankings. If you asked 100 random college graduates about which law school is better—Yale or Georgetown—I bet half would pick the latter. Law is not "prestigious."

[Hikikomorist]

No one cares about graduate programs for lay prestige, except maybe the tippy-top of pre-professional graduate program rankings (e.g., HYS for law schools).

"No one cares about grad programs for lay prestige, except for law schools," said the law student. LOL @ this pathetic bubble.

In the real world, no one cares about our profession's silly prestige rankings. If you asked 100 random college graduates about which law school is better—Yale or Georgetown—I bet half would pick the latter. Law is not "prestigious."

Also MBA and MD programs. I agree no one really cares, but they have more prestige than any PhD programs, at least.

[Hikikomorist]

Importance for overall institutional lay prestige: UG rankings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MD/MBA/JD rankings >> rankings for other graduate programs.

[LurkerTurnedMember]

No one cares about graduate programs for lay prestige, except maybe the tippy-top of pre-professional graduate program rankings (e.g., HYS for law schools).

"No one cares about grad programs for lay prestige, except for law schools," said the law student. LOL @ this pathetic bubble.

In the real world, no one cares about our profession's silly prestige rankings. If you asked 100 random college graduates about which law school is better—Yale or Georgetown—I bet half would pick the latter. Law is not "prestigious."

I agree with this 100%. I think they did a study a while back and asked people how good "Princeton Law" was and they ranked it top 5 or something. There is no Princeton Law.

That's why, talking to Hikikomotorist above, I went to general perception of the university itself, which encompasses how good the undergrad and graduate programs are, how it's portrayed in the media, and the reputational perception both nationally and globally in rankings (although the rankings usually add other stuff, too, like research power).