2018 USNWR Rankings Forum

[Hikikomorist]

FWIW. I found the professors at Harvard Law to be amazingly approachable. More so even that those at my undergraduate school. Not everyone of them to everybody, and not all of them all of the time, but if your interests/pursuits overlap, and they aren't writing a book or something else that is taking a tremendous amount of their time, they are very approachable and more than willing to be involved.

Didn't find a lot of gunners and when there were it really wasn't an issue.

If you look around and can't find the gunner, it's probably you.

I don't think any of my 2L classes have had gunners.

[RedPurpleBlue]

I find it interesting that "staying at median" is presented as a norm here. Through mathematical chance, "staying at median" (or thereabouts) has a ~50% failure rate.

Yeah, these guys don't make sense all the time

Have you read any of the replies to that post? The median can literally be over half of the students at a school, and everyone else can be above the median.

50% of the students perform below the median. That would be a failure for students wanting biglaw

Why? The T5 places >70% into BL/FC and the T13 places >55%. Only below that is the median student pwned.

Stop making useless divisions within the T13.Every T13 offers you a >65% chance of landing BL, including Berkeley/Michigan when accounting for PI/Gov't self-selection. You have >10% of room to fall below the median at every T13 school to have a decent shot at BL/FC.

T13 (BL/FC)
Yale: ~72%
Stanford: ~78%
Harvard: ~70%
Chicago: ~82%
Columbia: ~78%
NYU: ~67%
Penn: ~76%
UVA:~70%
Michigan: ~61%
Duke: ~74%
Northwestern: ~70%
Berkeley: ~56%
Cornell: ~66%

[genericwit]

Neither shocked nor surprised at UT joining the pantheon

WELL DESERVED WE DID IT

To be clear, UT has not joined anything. UT is still just outside the meaningful distinction. It is now the T13.

I'm going to yawn at this repeated butthurtedness from elitist pricks all the way to my biglaw summer job. Should I tell them they made a mistake, because I don't go to a T13 school, and that's the new distinction according to some guy on the Internet who heard it from another guy on the Internet and thought it was clever enough to repeat?

Or should I just quietly pocket that money, since I have no student loan debt to pay back? Thanks UT for in-state tuition, generous scholarships, biglaw job offers, and people who aren't this petty.

[cavalier1138]

Neither shocked nor surprised at UT joining the pantheon

WELL DESERVED WE DID IT

To be clear, UT has not joined anything. UT is still just outside the meaningful distinction. It is now the T13.

I'm going to yawn at this repeated butthurtedness from elitist pricks all the way to my biglaw summer job. Should I tell them they made a mistake, because I don't go to a T13 school, and that's the new distinction according to some guy on the Internet who heard it from another guy on the Internet and thought it was clever enough to repeat?

Or should I just quietly pocket that money, since I have no student loan debt to pay back? Thanks UT for in-state tuition, generous scholarships, biglaw job offers, and people who aren't this petty.

When you say "biglaw", is that just referencing the fact that Texans insist on writing all of their laws in a very large typeface to appear more important?

*Hint: I don't think you're getting the joke.

[lymenheimer]

Neither shocked nor surprised at UT joining the pantheon

WELL DESERVED WE DID IT

To be clear, UT has not joined anything. UT is still just outside the meaningful distinction. It is now the T13.

I'm going to yawn at this repeated butthurtedness from elitist pricks all the way to my biglaw summer job. Should I tell them they made a mistake, because I don't go to a T13 school, and that's the new distinction according to some guy on the Internet who heard it from another guy on the Internet and thought it was clever enough to repeat?

Or should I just quietly pocket that money, since I have no student loan debt to pay back? Thanks UT for in-state tuition, generous scholarships, biglaw job offers, and people who aren't this petty.

(Irony)

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

Neither shocked nor surprised at UT joining the pantheon

WELL DESERVED WE DID IT

To be clear, UT has not joined anything. UT is still just outside the meaningful distinction. It is now the T13.

I'm going to yawn at this repeated butthurtedness from elitist pricks all the way to my biglaw summer job. Should I tell them they made a mistake, because I don't go to a T13 school, and that's the new distinction according to some guy on the Internet who heard it from another guy on the Internet and thought it was clever enough to repeat?

Or should I just quietly pocket that money, since I have no student loan debt to pay back? Thanks UT for in-state tuition, generous scholarships, biglaw job offers, and people who aren't this petty.

Is only joke

Why you heff to be mad?

[lolRCscrewyou]

Regardless, Berkeley will always be Berkeley. Other schools are really good, too, but telling someone you went to Penn, UVA, Michigan, NYU, Northwestern, or Duke doesn't have the same ring to it or reaction from everyday people.

Duke doesn't have the same reaction as Berkeley? You must live on the West Coast then because the reaction seems pretty equivalent. In fact I'd argue Duke has more pull outside the West Coast but that's been my experience.

Agreed, but I'd even say people on the West Coast have a better reaction to Duke than Berk. Everyone and their mother went to Berk, it's not really an uncommon thing. I think the only California school that still pulls a *gasp* reaction 10/10 times is Stanford. Meanwhile, despite law school rankings being all over the place, these schools never fail to illicit good reactions to CA natives: Vanderbilt, Harvard, Yale, Duke, and Georgetown.

[curry1]

Regardless, Berkeley will always be Berkeley. Other schools are really good, too, but telling someone you went to Penn, UVA, Michigan, NYU, Northwestern, or Duke doesn't have the same ring to it or reaction from everyday people.

Duke doesn't have the same reaction as Berkeley? You must live on the West Coast then because the reaction seems pretty equivalent. In fact I'd argue Duke has more pull outside the West Coast but that's been my experience.

Agreed, but I'd even say people on the West Coast have a better reaction to Duke than Berk. Everyone and their mother went to Berk, it's not really an uncommon thing. I think the only California school that still pulls a *gasp* reaction 10/10 times is Stanford. Meanwhile, despite law school rankings being all over the place, these schools never fail to illicit good reactions to CA natives: Vanderbilt, Harvard, Yale, Duke, and Georgetown.

odd pro-vanderbilt trolling.

[Rigo]

I'm from the west coast and haven't really noticed people having hardons for Vandy, but maybe my sample is limited.

[Hikikomorist]

I'm from the west coast and haven't really noticed people having hardons for Vandy, but maybe my sample is limited.

Pushing Rice for "second-best Southern school" status at the UG level.

[lolRCscrewyou]

Regardless, Berkeley will always be Berkeley. Other schools are really good, too, but telling someone you went to Penn, UVA, Michigan, NYU, Northwestern, or Duke doesn't have the same ring to it or reaction from everyday people.

Duke doesn't have the same reaction as Berkeley? You must live on the West Coast then because the reaction seems pretty equivalent. In fact I'd argue Duke has more pull outside the West Coast but that's been my experience.

Agreed, but I'd even say people on the West Coast have a better reaction to Duke than Berk. Everyone and their mother went to Berk, it's not really an uncommon thing. I think the only California school that still pulls a *gasp* reaction 10/10 times is Stanford. Meanwhile, despite law school rankings being all over the place, these schools never fail to illicit good reactions to CA natives: Vanderbilt, Harvard, Yale, Duke, and Georgetown.

odd pro-vanderbilt trolling.

Not at all. I lived in California all my life until law school, and I'm just saying regular blue collar folk recognize these as great schools. We know Berkeley is too, but since so many alum stay here it's not as rare as the other ones, thereby diminishing the awe factor. Now, people familiar with law school prestige won't have the same reaction. I was just trying to point out that to the general population, saying those schools don't have a similar ring as Berkeley does isn't true.

[Rigo]

I'm from the west coast and haven't really noticed people having hardons for Vandy, but maybe my sample is limited.

Pushing Rice for "second-best Southern school" status at the UG level.

Tbh I didn't really know of Rice or WUSTL either.
The midwest was kind of a deadzone. I didn't know anyone from high school who went to school anywhere geographically between UC-Boulder and Georgetown or Syracuse, I don't think.

I was probably in a little San Diego bubble though where not many people left SoCal let alone CA.

[Rigo]

Who cares about national lay prestige though.
Joe the Plumber isn't a hiring partner.

[Ferrisjso]

I'm from the west coast and haven't really noticed people having hardons for Vandy, but maybe my sample is limited.

It is, Nashville is a wonderful city(many people I talk to feel the same way, it's a top destination for northerners going to the south for cheaper living costs) and Vanderbilt being regional in that regard doesn't hurt it, except among people choosing among the few national schools. Maybe in the West Coast, Nashville isn't a popular destination for people looking to pick up their lives and move, on the east coast it most certainly is.

[buckiguy_sucks]

Who cares about national lay prestige though.
Joe the Plumber isn't a hiring partner.

What's the point of going to law school if not to impress your midwestern extended family members

[Rigo]

I'm from the west coast and haven't really noticed people having hardons for Vandy, but maybe my sample is limited.

It is, Nashville is a wonderful city(many people I talk to feel the same way, it's a top destination for northerners going to the south for cheaper living costs) and Vanderbilt being regional in that regard doesn't hurt it, except among people choosing among the few national schools. Maybe in the West Coast, Nashville isn't a popular destination for people looking to pick up their lives and move, on the east coast it most certainly is.

Okay sure but we were specifically discussing west coast perceptions.

[BigZuck]

Neither shocked nor surprised at UT joining the pantheon

WELL DESERVED WE DID IT

To be clear, UT has not joined anything. UT is still just outside the meaningful distinction. It is now the T13.

I'm going to yawn at this repeated butthurtedness from elitist pricks all the way to my biglaw summer job. Should I tell them they made a mistake, because I don't go to a T13 school, and that's the new distinction according to some guy on the Internet who heard it from another guy on the Internet and thought it was clever enough to repeat?

Or should I just quietly pocket that money, since I have no student loan debt to pay back? Thanks UT for in-state tuition, generous scholarships, biglaw job offers, and people who aren't this petty.

Samesies, only difference is I'm actually a BIG LAWYER closing BIG DEALS and my yawn is from staying up until 2 AM and billing 14 hours plus the last 4 days straight to close yet another BIG DEAL and count my FAT STACKS of 180K (non-state income taxed) CASH $$$$$$$ HONEY

#hookem

[Ferrisjso]

I'm from the west coast and haven't really noticed people having hardons for Vandy, but maybe my sample is limited.

It is, Nashville is a wonderful city(many people I talk to feel the same way, it's a top destination for northerners going to the south for cheaper living costs) and Vanderbilt being regional in that regard doesn't hurt it, except among people choosing among the few national schools. Maybe in the West Coast, Nashville isn't a popular destination for people looking to pick up their lives and move, on the east coast it most certainly is.

Okay sure but we were specifically discussing west coast perceptions.

True I was implying I could see why West Coast people would consider Nashville as an alternative if they wanted to leave for whatever reason.(should have been clearer) I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there's a considerable contingent and I'd actually be surprised if there was none.

[TudoBem]

Who cares about national lay prestige though.
Joe the Plumber isn't a hiring partner.

Yep, you got that right.

[LurkerTurnedMember]

Regardless, Berkeley will always be Berkeley. Other schools are really good, too, but telling someone you went to Penn, UVA, Michigan, NYU, Northwestern, or Duke doesn't have the same ring to it or reaction from everyday people.

Duke doesn't have the same reaction as Berkeley? You must live on the West Coast then because the reaction seems pretty equivalent. In fact I'd argue Duke has more pull outside the West Coast but that's been my experience.

Agreed, but I'd even say people on the West Coast have a better reaction to Duke than Berk. Everyone and their mother went to Berk, it's not really an uncommon thing. I think the only California school that still pulls a *gasp* reaction 10/10 times is Stanford. Meanwhile, despite law school rankings being all over the place, these schools never fail to illicit good reactions to CA natives: Vanderbilt, Harvard, Yale, Duke, and Georgetown.

odd pro-vanderbilt trolling.

Haha it was. I was almost taking it seriously until I read Vandy, and then thought, "Damn it! Trolled."

And there's no real point in saying Duke is better known for academics and just generally than Berkeley. Just look at INTERNATIONAL rankings. Top schools from the U.S. tend to be Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, and Stanford. Duke is nowhere. That's because Duke isn't on the same level as the former four schools or schools like them. Basketball doesn't beat the free speech/rights movement, having almost all the graduate programs ranked in the top 10 or 5 spots, international recognition, being almost regularly in media, and the leader in progressivism, social movements, and academics. I'm not saying Duke is a bad school. It's really good and I have friends who went there. But if I didn't go to University of Chicago, and I had the choice between UVA, Mich, Duke, or Berkeley, I'd go to Berkeley hands down. The weather and location alone wins.

Here are international rankings based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is behind Stanford by .1 and is 4th. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke and Vandy. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

[Hikikomorist]

Regardless, Berkeley will always be Berkeley. Other schools are really good, too, but telling someone you went to Penn, UVA, Michigan, NYU, Northwestern, or Duke doesn't have the same ring to it or reaction from everyday people.

Duke doesn't have the same reaction as Berkeley? You must live on the West Coast then because the reaction seems pretty equivalent. In fact I'd argue Duke has more pull outside the West Coast but that's been my experience.

Agreed, but I'd even say people on the West Coast have a better reaction to Duke than Berk. Everyone and their mother went to Berk, it's not really an uncommon thing. I think the only California school that still pulls a *gasp* reaction 10/10 times is Stanford. Meanwhile, despite law school rankings being all over the place, these schools never fail to illicit good reactions to CA natives: Vanderbilt, Harvard, Yale, Duke, and Georgetown.

odd pro-vanderbilt trolling.

Haha it was. I was almost taking it seriously until I read Vandy, and then thought, "Damn it! Trolled."

And there's no real point in saying Duke is better known for academics and just generally than Berkeley. Just look at INTERNATIONAL rankings. Top schools from the U.S. tend to be Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, and Stanford. Duke is nowhere. That's because Duke isn't on the same level as the former four schools or schools like them. Basketball doesn't beat the free rights movement, having almost all the graduate programs ranked in the top 10 or 5 spots, international recognition, being almost regularly in media, and the leader in progressivism, social movements, and academics. I'm not saying Duke is a bad school. It's really good and I have friends who went there. But if I didn't go to University of Chicago, and I had the choice between UVA, Mich, Duke, or Berkeley, I'd go to Berkeley hands down. The weather and location alone wins.

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

[LurkerTurnedMember]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

[Hikikomorist]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

Man, I really hope Brown and Vanderbilt can eventually close the gap on UCSD/B.

[Moneytrees]

Duke easily has more lay prestige than Berkeley or any other state school. International rankings are dogshit and elevate dogshit state schools (for clarification, not counting Berkeley as a dogshit state school) way above where they belong.

Here are rankings of schools based on global and regional reputation. Berkeley is 4th, just .1 behind Stanford. I'll let you click through the rest of the pages to find Duke. https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... s/rankings

Man, I really hope Brown and Vanderbilt can eventually close the gap on UCSD/B.

They will never because they are not major research powerhouses. Just because your small, selective private UG ranked poorly in the in the international rankings doesn't mean the rankings are dogshit. Those rankings are more about research output and global recognition, not lay prestige.

[Hikikomorist]

Yes, all those kids at the international SAT-prep academy were really hoping to get into no-name state schools because they're research POWERHOUSES.