Which schools to apply to earliest? Forum

[LawschoolHopeful2k16]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know or have a link with up to date information about which schools have the biggest boost to applying early?

For example, I've read in a couple places that Penn dosent even start reviewing applications until mid-November. Meanwhile UVA and Duke are already returning decisions.

My goal is to apply as early as possible while still submitting a quality application, essays, etc. So I'm trying to figure out which schools to prioritize the school-specific parts to do. Like I'd try to send in my UVA application before my Penn one, since if I get it to Penn in early November I shouldn't be at any disadvantage. And if I did it in the opposite order I would be sending my application to UVA after they've already filled some more spots in their class.

[20171lhopeful]

seconding this question.

[vcap180]

seconding this question.

I'm thirding it.

[poptart123]

seconding this question.

I'm thirding it.

4th

[CenterFringe]

Unless you have specific additional essays, after your first application, most additional applications take much less than an hour to complete. Even your Why X essays shouldn't take that much additional time. Certainly not enough to change your application date by months.

[vcap180]

Unless you have specific additional essays, after your first application, most additional applications take much less than an hour to complete. Even your Why X essays shouldn't take that much additional time. Certainly not enough to change your application date by months.

U wot m8?

[cavalier1138]

Unless you have specific additional essays, after your first application, most additional applications take much less than an hour to complete. Even your Why X essays shouldn't take that much additional time. Certainly not enough to change your application date by months.

U wot m8?

This doesn't seem all that hard to understand.

You aren't going to be submitting radically different applications to UVA and Penn. At most, you'll be sending them different "Why [X]" essays. So this question is largely pointless, because if your UVA application is ready now, there's no reason that your Penn application can't be ready within the 10 minutes it takes to write, "Ever since I was a little girl, I've dreamed of studying the law in the ruins of what used to be the centerpiece of America...".

[RZ5646]

All of them except HYS. Scholarship money dries up quickly.

[vcap180]

Unless you have specific additional essays, after your first application, most additional applications take much less than an hour to complete. Even your Why X essays shouldn't take that much additional time. Certainly not enough to change your application date by months.

U wot m8?

This doesn't seem all that hard to understand.

You aren't going to be submitting radically different applications to UVA and Penn. At most, you'll be sending them different "Why [X]" essays. So this question is largely pointless, because if your UVA application is ready now, there's no reason that your Penn application can't be ready within the 10 minutes it takes to write, "Ever since I was a little girl, I've dreamed of studying the law in the ruins of what used to be the centerpiece of America...".

Cool story - I guess this is a pointless topic in your narrow view. Or perhaps someone wants to apply to several schools and does not have/want to spend a large sum of money on applications all at once, and would rather spread it over the course of a few months. For this person, it would make sense to know which schools he/she ought to apply to first. Or perhaps someone is extremely busy and needs to find time to work on their why [X]/optional essays. Here again, this information would be helpful for prioritizing. I can keep going...

[cavalier1138]

Unless you have specific additional essays, after your first application, most additional applications take much less than an hour to complete. Even your Why X essays shouldn't take that much additional time. Certainly not enough to change your application date by months.

U wot m8?

This doesn't seem all that hard to understand.

You aren't going to be submitting radically different applications to UVA and Penn. At most, you'll be sending them different "Why [X]" essays. So this question is largely pointless, because if your UVA application is ready now, there's no reason that your Penn application can't be ready within the 10 minutes it takes to write, "Ever since I was a little girl, I've dreamed of studying the law in the ruins of what used to be the centerpiece of America...".

Cool story - I guess this is a pointless topic in your narrow view. Or perhaps someone wants to apply to several schools and does not have/want to spend a large sum of money on applications all at once, and would rather spread it over the course of a few months. For this person, it would make sense to know which schools he/she ought to apply to first. Or perhaps someone is extremely busy and needs to find time to work on their why [X]/optional essays. Here again, this information would be helpful for prioritizing. I can keep going...

Speaking as someone who applied to law school while working two jobs (for much less money than you make, I promise), that's bullshit. If you're that poor, you can get an LSAC fee waiver. And again, the fictional "I'm too busy to write a tiny, optional paragraph," scenario is also... wait for it... bullshit. Besides, if you already knew you were going to apply early, these things should have been ready to go well over a month ago.

So yes, this is a pointless topic. If your application for one school is ready, the only possible thing that could delay submitting to other schools would be named scholarship essays. Otherwise, it takes literally five minutes to fill out any slightly different information and re-attach your essays.

[vcap180]

Unless you have specific additional essays, after your first application, most additional applications take much less than an hour to complete. Even your Why X essays shouldn't take that much additional time. Certainly not enough to change your application date by months.

U wot m8?

This doesn't seem all that hard to understand.

You aren't going to be submitting radically different applications to UVA and Penn. At most, you'll be sending them different "Why [X]" essays. So this question is largely pointless, because if your UVA application is ready now, there's no reason that your Penn application can't be ready within the 10 minutes it takes to write, "Ever since I was a little girl, I've dreamed of studying the law in the ruins of what used to be the centerpiece of America...".

Cool story - I guess this is a pointless topic in your narrow view. Or perhaps someone wants to apply to several schools and does not have/want to spend a large sum of money on applications all at once, and would rather spread it over the course of a few months. For this person, it would make sense to know which schools he/she ought to apply to first. Or perhaps someone is extremely busy and needs to find time to work on their why [X]/optional essays. Here again, this information would be helpful for prioritizing. I can keep going...

Speaking as someone who applied to law school while working two jobs (for much less money than you make, I promise), that's bullshit. If you're that poor, you can get an LSAC fee waiver. And again, the fictional "I'm too busy to write a tiny, optional paragraph," scenario is also... wait for it... bullshit. Besides, if you already knew you were going to apply early, these things should have been ready to go well over a month ago.

So yes, this is a pointless topic. If your application for one school is ready, the only possible thing that could delay submitting to other schools would be named scholarship essays. Otherwise, it takes literally five minutes to fill out any slightly different information and re-attach your essays.

They money could certainly be an issue. If you to blanket the t-14, apply to a few safety schools, and a few potential bargaining chips, you're looking at a huge chunk of money. Some people would rather spread this out over the course of several weeks if it would not significantly impact their chances.

With that said, I'm really just being confrontational. My interest in this thread stems from something entirely different: I want to know which schools actually do begin evaluating/deciding very early in the cycle; it doesn't have anything to do with me deciding when to apply - my apps are already in.

[LawschoolHopeful2k16]

1) It would be helpful to know just so that I know when the schools actually start looking at apps and when they start returning decisions.
2) if I don't have a spare $800 laying around i can apply to some first and then the rest after another paycheck or two.
3) writing a why xyz essay for a half dozen (or more) schools and some optional essays and addenda and essays related to a certain area/joint degree/scholarship definitely can take some time. Writing very high quality essays for those isn't as quick as you're making it. A difference of a month or so isn't major, but could have some impact.
4) and even if I could afford everything all at once and could do all the optional parts pretty quickly doesn't mean that I want to. If it'd be possible for me to write only 2 essays a week for the next month and still turn everything in in an order that didn't disadvantage compared to writing 10 essays in 2 weeks, I'd definitely prefer to spread them out.

[cavalier1138]

1) It would be helpful to know just so that I know when the schools actually start looking at apps and when they start returning decisions.
2) if I don't have a spare $800 laying around i can apply to some first and then the rest after another paycheck or two.
3) writing a why xyz essay for a half dozen (or more) schools and some optional essays and addenda and essays related to a certain area/joint degree/scholarship definitely can take some time. Writing very high quality essays for those isn't as quick as you're making it. A difference of a month or so isn't major, but could have some impact.
4) and even if I could afford everything all at once and could do all the optional parts pretty quickly doesn't mean that I want to. If it'd be possible for me to write only 2 essays a week for the next month and still turn everything in in an order that didn't disadvantage compared to writing 10 essays in 2 weeks, I'd definitely prefer to spread them out.

1. Apply before November. There is no school where applying now vs. November makes a difference.

2. Get waivers. There is absolutely zero reason that someone who can't afford to apply will have to pay for applications. If you earn too much to qualify for the LSAC waiver and haven't gotten a merit waiver anywhere, then raise your hand up and slap yourself firmly across the face for not anticipating this and saving money over the summer.

3. Why are you only writing these now? None of these essays should come as a surprise to you. And in case people haven't made it clear on these forums before, joint degrees are largely a waste of time and money (unless you want to go into teaching and are concurrently working on a PhD).

4. Maybe when you get to school you'd prefer to spread out your legal writing assignments and reading over several weeks instead of having to get everything done within a few days. Good luck with that.

[vcap180]

1) It would be helpful to know just so that I know when the schools actually start looking at apps and when they start returning decisions.
2) if I don't have a spare $800 laying around i can apply to some first and then the rest after another paycheck or two.
3) writing a why xyz essay for a half dozen (or more) schools and some optional essays and addenda and essays related to a certain area/joint degree/scholarship definitely can take some time. Writing very high quality essays for those isn't as quick as you're making it. A difference of a month or so isn't major, but could have some impact.
4) and even if I could afford everything all at once and could do all the optional parts pretty quickly doesn't mean that I want to. If it'd be possible for me to write only 2 essays a week for the next month and still turn everything in in an order that didn't disadvantage compared to writing 10 essays in 2 weeks, I'd definitely prefer to spread them out.

1. Apply before November. There is no school where applying now vs. November makes a difference.

2. Get waivers. There is absolutely zero reason that someone who can't afford to apply will have to pay for applications. If you earn too much to qualify for the LSAC waiver and haven't gotten a merit waiver anywhere, then raise your hand up and slap yourself firmly across the face for not anticipating this and saving money over the summer.

3. Why are you only writing these now? None of these essays should come as a surprise to you. And in case people haven't made it clear on these forums before, joint degrees are largely a waste of time and money (unless you want to go into teaching and are concurrently working on a PhD).

4. Maybe when you get to school you'd prefer to spread out your legal writing assignments and reading over several weeks instead of having to get everything done within a few days. Good luck with that.

1) Assuming this is true, this is all we're interested in.

2) Again, you missed the point. OP may be able to afford
them, but would simply rather spread out that cost over a period of time IF DOING SO WOULD CONFER NO DISADVANTAGE.

3) It's September. The cycle has literally just started. Some apps aren't even out yet! "Why are you only writing these now?" - you sound ridiculous.

4) Or maybe OP knows that would clearly be to his/her detriment. What is less clear, however, is the effect of applying in September vs November at certain schools....hence the entire purpose of this thread.

[cavalier1138]

3) It's September. The cycle has literally just started. Some apps aren't even out yet! "Why are you only writing these now?" - you sound ridiculous.

Since this is the only thing resembling a point that isn't, "Why me, why now?"...

When did you contact your LOR writers? Did you wait until every school had opened its applications? Did you decide that you wanted to see whether the personal statement prompts had changed drastically from their decades-old format before writing yours? Were you surprised that schools offered the chance to write a "Why [X]?" essay? Were you absolutely floored that the RTK scholarship essay was a personal statement about your commitment to public service?

Literally nothing about this process should have been an unknown by the time the applications were posted, because literally nothing about the process has changed since last year, or the year before that, or the year before that. If you wanted to apply early but didn't bother to prepare any materials prior to September, that's poor planning on your part.

But to get back to the point, there is nothing that knowing UVA might be already sending out acceptances or that Penn might not that would be helpful, because we're still in September. Anything submitted before November is early; there is no need to consider earlier-than-early applications on a school-by-school basis.

[LawschoolHopeful2k16]

3) It's September. The cycle has literally just started. Some apps aren't even out yet! "Why are you only writing these now?" - you sound ridiculous.

Since this is the only thing resembling a point that isn't, "Why me, why now?"...

When did you contact your LOR writers? Did you wait until every school had opened its applications? Did you decide that you wanted to see whether the personal statement prompts had changed drastically from their decades-old format before writing yours? Were you surprised that schools offered the chance to write a "Why [X]?" essay? Were you absolutely floored that the RTK scholarship essay was a personal statement about your commitment to public service?

Literally nothing about this process should have been an unknown by the time the applications were posted, because literally nothing about the process has changed since last year, or the year before that, or the year before that. If you wanted to apply early but didn't bother to prepare any materials prior to September, that's poor planning on your part.

But to get back to the point, there is nothing that knowing UVA might be already sending out acceptances or that Penn might not that would be helpful, because we're still in September. Anything submitted before November is early; there is no need to consider earlier-than-early applications on a school-by-school basis.

I got my recs a year ago.

I had more important things to attend to so I had to prioritize them over law school research that would provide little return on time invested.

And I procrastinated.

So regardless of what led to the situation, I'm still trying to make the best of it. And since I've seen evidence that applying by certain dates definitely provides at least a small advantage for certain schools, I want to take advantage of that.

[LawschoolHopeful2k16]

That aside, does anyone actually have an answer tho my question?

I know at one point there was an online article that looked at how much of a boost people had when applying to schools in which month, and it also looked at what boost it gave to splitters and reverse splitters. However it was rather outdated.

Or even if your thinking is the same as Cavalier1138's, if you can give more explanation as to why I doesn't matter and provide concrete evidence, like a chart of acceptance rates during each month, that'd be helpful too.

[cavalier1138]

So regardless of what led to the situation, I'm still trying to make the best of it. And since I've seen evidence that applying by certain dates definitely provides at least a small advantage for certain schools, I want to take advantage of that.

Except there's no evidence of that.

The people getting admitted to Duke right now are priority track. The people getting admitted to UVA and any other schools that are already accepting people are people who were such sure things that there was no point in the school waiting to review other apps next to theirs. So there is no benefit. Even were these people to have applied in October and been compared against the larger pool of people who get their app in early, they still would have gotten in.

There is literally no difference at any school in America between applying now and applying a month from now.

[LawschoolHopeful2k16]

So regardless of what led to the situation, I'm still trying to make the best of it. And since I've seen evidence that applying by certain dates definitely provides at least a small advantage for certain schools, I want to take advantage of that.

Except there's no evidence of that.

The people getting admitted to Duke right now are priority track. The people getting admitted to UVA and any other schools that are already accepting people are people who were such sure things that there was no point in the school waiting to review other apps next to theirs. So there is no benefit. Even were these people to have applied in October and been compared against the larger pool of people who get their app in early, they still would have gotten in.

There is literally no difference at any school in America between applying now and applying a month from now.

I'm aware that much of the supposed boost may be due to more qualified applicants being the type to submit their applications the first month. I clearly don't think uva has an 80% acceptance rate in Sept and Oct just because they let in weaker candidates.

But I have seen statistics that do indicate that applying earlier is better than later. And while it's clear that it's better to apply in September than January, the October to November range is much less clear. Even if it's a 1% boost in likelihood of getting admitted, I'll gladly take that advantage.

[cavalier1138]

So regardless of what led to the situation, I'm still trying to make the best of it. And since I've seen evidence that applying by certain dates definitely provides at least a small advantage for certain schools, I want to take advantage of that.

Except there's no evidence of that.

The people getting admitted to Duke right now are priority track. The people getting admitted to UVA and any other schools that are already accepting people are people who were such sure things that there was no point in the school waiting to review other apps next to theirs. So there is no benefit. Even were these people to have applied in October and been compared against the larger pool of people who get their app in early, they still would have gotten in.

There is literally no difference at any school in America between applying now and applying a month from now.

I'm aware that much of the supposed boost may be due to more qualified applicants being the type to submit their applications the first month. I clearly don't think uva has an 80% acceptance rate in Sept and Oct just because they let in weaker candidates.

But I have seen statistics that do indicate that applying earlier is better than later. And while it's clear that it's better to apply in September than January, the October to November range is much less clear. Even if it's a 1% boost in likelihood of getting admitted, I'll gladly take that advantage.

You're not understanding the "boost". There is none. The only people being admitted in these months are sure things. There is no boost, because they were already going to be admitted.

And I have no idea where you came up with the 80% acceptances between September and October statistic, but no. That's not true.

[RamTitan]

So regardless of what led to the situation, I'm still trying to make the best of it. And since I've seen evidence that applying by certain dates definitely provides at least a small advantage for certain schools, I want to take advantage of that.

Except there's no evidence of that.

The people getting admitted to Duke right now are priority track. The people getting admitted to UVA and any other schools that are already accepting people are people who were such sure things that there was no point in the school waiting to review other apps next to theirs. So there is no benefit. Even were these people to have applied in October and been compared against the larger pool of people who get their app in early, they still would have gotten in.

There is literally no difference at any school in America between applying now and applying a month from now.

I'm aware that much of the supposed boost may be due to more qualified applicants being the type to submit their applications the first month. I clearly don't think uva has an 80% acceptance rate in Sept and Oct just because they let in weaker candidates.

But I have seen statistics that do indicate that applying earlier is better than later. And while it's clear that it's better to apply in September than January, the October to November range is much less clear. Even if it's a 1% boost in likelihood of getting admitted, I'll gladly take that advantage.

You're not understanding the "boost". There is none. The only people being admitted in these months are sure things. There is no boost, because they were already going to be admitted.

And I have no idea where you came up with the 80% acceptances between September and October statistic, but no. That's not true.

If a candidate who wasn't a sure thing applied early, would they be waitlisted, or would there be an advantage to them applying early?

[cavalier1138]

So regardless of what led to the situation, I'm still trying to make the best of it. And since I've seen evidence that applying by certain dates definitely provides at least a small advantage for certain schools, I want to take advantage of that.

Except there's no evidence of that.

The people getting admitted to Duke right now are priority track. The people getting admitted to UVA and any other schools that are already accepting people are people who were such sure things that there was no point in the school waiting to review other apps next to theirs. So there is no benefit. Even were these people to have applied in October and been compared against the larger pool of people who get their app in early, they still would have gotten in.

There is literally no difference at any school in America between applying now and applying a month from now.

I'm aware that much of the supposed boost may be due to more qualified applicants being the type to submit their applications the first month. I clearly don't think uva has an 80% acceptance rate in Sept and Oct just because they let in weaker candidates.

But I have seen statistics that do indicate that applying earlier is better than later. And while it's clear that it's better to apply in September than January, the October to November range is much less clear. Even if it's a 1% boost in likelihood of getting admitted, I'll gladly take that advantage.

You're not understanding the "boost". There is none. The only people being admitted in these months are sure things. There is no boost, because they were already going to be admitted.

And I have no idea where you came up with the 80% acceptances between September and October statistic, but no. That's not true.

If a candidate who wasn't a sure thing applied early, would they be waitlisted, or would there be an advantage to them applying early?

No.

They likely just wouldn't hear back until the "official" first round of decisions went out. There isn't a bump from applying so early that you "skip the line".

To speak generally to this, I was fortunate enough to be on the receiving end of some quick decisions last year. For the sake of anonymity (mine, not the school's; you can PM me if curious), I'll only name Duke, because they're the only ones with a priority track for admissions. The circumstances were:

1. Priority track at Duke, so I was guaranteed a fast turnaround (and they largely only offer this to students they're sure of in the first place).
2. Happened to have a one-on-one meeting with the dean of the school. The dean personally pushed my app through.
3. Went to school for undergrad. Interview was fifteen minutes before a committee meeting; interviewer said they would recommend me. Fifteen minutes later, I got a semi-official e-mail letting me know I was in.

In all three cases, I was well above the 75th LSAT and at least at the median GPA, with some compelling softs. There was literally no way in hell I wasn't getting in at these schools (short of just writing "All work and no play makes Johnny a dull boy" for my PS, and applying in September in no way enhanced my application. It just let me know my decision earlier.

Edit: I should clarify that I submitted all my applications by mid-September just to have them done, and these were the only three schools that returned decisions so quickly, even though I was a lock at multiple other schools I applied to.

[RamTitan]

No.

They likely just wouldn't hear back until the "official" first round of decisions went out. There isn't a bump from applying so early that you "skip the line".

To speak generally to this, I was fortunate enough to be on the receiving end of some quick decisions last year. For the sake of anonymity (mine, not the school's; you can PM me if curious), I'll only name Duke, because they're the only ones with a priority track for admissions. The circumstances were:

1. Priority track at Duke, so I was guaranteed a fast turnaround (and they largely only offer this to students they're sure of in the first place).
2. Happened to have a one-on-one meeting with the dean of the school. The dean personally pushed my app through.
3. Went to school for undergrad. Interview was fifteen minutes before a committee meeting; interviewer said they would recommend me. Fifteen minutes later, I got a semi-official e-mail letting me know I was in.

In all three cases, I was well above the 75th LSAT and at least at the median GPA, with some compelling softs. There was literally no way in hell I wasn't getting in at these schools (short of just writing "All work and no play makes Johnny a dull boy" for my PS, and applying in September in no way enhanced my application. It just let me know my decision earlier.

Edit: I should clarify that I submitted all my applications by mid-September just to have them done, and these were the only three schools that returned decisions so quickly, even though I was a lock at multiple other schools I applied to.

Ah, I see. That makes me tempted to apply to Duke since I was given a priority application, but I think I'll still wait to get my Sept. LSAT back

[LawschoolHopeful2k16]

For those who are wondering, the mylsn.info timeline charts provide interesting information about when each school starts to send out decisions, the ration of decisions that a school sends out by then etc. And you can even check out the stats of the people who fell into each category.

Even if you don't want to crunch the numbers to see how much of it was affected by the schools saying yes to only the best candidates first, you can still gain some information. For example, by December, Berkeley has admitted almost half of the total people it admits. Which implies that applying in even mid November might disadvantage you since by the time your application is considered complete and they finish looking at it, half the spots in their class are taken up already.