Pre-med to Pre-law Forum

[hubbathehut]

Hey everyone. I was pre-med at Stanford for four years. I actually didn't finish and wasn't there the whole time. Now I'm almost 22 and it's time to do things a bit differently. I was thinking about applying for transfers to UCLA and UC Berkeley next year, but they only accept transfers at the junior level so it would mean graduating 3 years from now. In the meantime I would take the LSAT and engage in pre-law activities. So, I would be 25 years old when entering law school, 3 years behind someone who went straight out of college. What do you guys think? Any advice is appreciated. I wonder if I would be able to get into Harvard Law School, which sounds amazing but might be out of reach. I've been crawling in the gutter for so long and I'm not even afraid to admit it anymore.

[Mikey]

Your age will not restrict you from getting into Harvard. Plenty of people that age (starting at 25), as well as older than that, get into top law schools. As long as you have the numbers, your age should not be the one to prevent acceptance. The only way age MIGHT be a disadvantage to someone is if they're K-JD, but even then, if they have good numbers they will have good options.

If you're at Stanford, why don't you just finish up undergrad there? Is this a COA issue? If not, I don't see why going from Stanford to another school would be of any benefit, you just need to have good numbers.

[pancakes3]

a checkered academic history isn't going to keep you out of law school but your GPA will. "pre-law" is a meaningless distinction. your UG classes have no bearing on law school admissions.

[hubbathehut]

Please forgive me, I just can't do it.

[Mikey]

Yes it is an issue of COA. I can't afford the housing and have a sister to leave some tuition money for. But the real issue is which graduate entrance exam to take. I think I'd do best on the GRE, so maybe I should switch to that. I didn't enjoy pre-med, so there's no reason I should enjoy pre-law, since they're both professional tracks.

They're 2 different fields, just because you don't like your pre-med classes doesn't mean you won't like practicing/studying law. A heads up, pre-law isn't really a thing, there's no required classes in undergrad like there is for medical school. You can have a degree in anything you want, as long as your GPA is good. If you don't want to be a lawyer, don't go to law school. It seems like you're mixed up with deciding what to do between med school, law school and another graduate program. Figure out what you want to do first before making decisions, because any graduate school is a big commitment, especially if you're debt financing.

[hubbathehut]

I've been waiting patiently(?) for a while now. Maybe the time to go back to School draws near. Pre-med and the job of a radiologist are still too good to give up. Sorry I can't just stop now. I got banned from SDN (student doctor network) a while ago so I thought maybe I wouldn't get along with other doctors. I can't stop now though.

[AnMzungu]

Please forgive me, I just can't do it.

What on earth are you on about?

[pancakes3]

being a radiologist is not too good to pass up if a) it means 400k in debt, b) there's no guarantee you make it into radiology, and c) you won't be able to service that debt until you're 30.

[hubbathehut]

being a radiologist is not too good to pass up if a) it means 400k in debt, b) there's no guarantee you make it into radiology, and c) you won't be able to service that debt until you're 30.

Yes. I can't afford to do it. Right now I have to get a bachelors degree. I'm going to try to transfer to a UC school. They only take at the junior level. Plus the coming year will be the application cycle, so I'll finish 3 years from now. If everything goes according to plan.

[pancakes3]

being a radiologist is not too good to pass up if a) it means 400k in debt, b) there's no guarantee you make it into radiology, and c) you won't be able to service that debt until you're 30.

Yes. I can't afford to do it. Right now I have to get a bachelors degree. I'm going to try to transfer to a UC school. They only take at the junior level. Plus the coming year will be the application cycle, so I'll finish 3 years from now. If everything goes according to plan.

What on earth are you on about?

[Mikey]

OP, you were at Stanford for 4 years. You're wanting to transfer to another school that only takes in Junior level students, and therefore you will be there for 3 years? So, are you a senior now and will be losing credits when transferring?? The confusion is real ITT.

What on earth are you on about?

[Eee666]

I've been crawling in the gutter for so long and I'm not even afraid to admit it anymore.

IS there something that you're trying to run away from?

[testusername555]

Law school is not something to do just because it doesn't seem like there's anything else to do.

[galadriel3019]

I know multiple people who transferred to UC's before their junior year. I think there are a number of areas that you need to research before you make any sort of major decision. Figuring out how/where to pick up your undergrad is the first step, I wouldn't be worrying about how to get into law school right now.

[Big Dog]

how many credits are you short of graduating from S? What was your cumulative GPA when you left? Why did you leave?

UC transfers are primarily designed for JuCo's. You will need a really good reason to leave a four-year university one year short(?) of graduation to enter another 4 year university which then might require two years to graduate.

btw: you can apply to law school with any major.

[eagle2a]

bro, any health related career is better than going to law school
md/do/dds/pharmd/podiatry/physician assistant
just stick to one of these, law school fucking blows and the job market blows harder

[hubbathehut]

it has to do with the housing, it is difficult to live there while here I have the advantage of having my own room basically
my gpa was 3.78
I left because it was getting dumb... am I right... ? #
the geographic barriers are too large at ages 18-21

[runinthefront]

bro, any health related career is better than going to law school
md/do/dds/pharmd/podiatry/physician assistant
just stick to one of these, law school fucking blows and the job market blows harder

this is not true. have you seen the market for pharmds?

[testusername555]

bro, any health related career is better than going to law school
md/do/dds/pharmd/podiatry/physician assistant
just stick to one of these, law school fucking blows and the job market blows harder

this is not true. have you seen the market for pharmds?

Also, please, medical careers are likewise NOT careers for you to just do because there's nothing else to do. That's even worse than law school.
If you can get T14 law, you'll be out with $200k sunk tuition/living cost after three years.
MD: private schools, $250k sunk tuition/living cost after four years. Likely at least $160k sunk tuition/living cost after four years at state schools since med school tuition is quite high. Afterwards, you must complete a minimum residency of three years for fields like emergency med/primary care ($50-$60k pay, 60-70 hour work weeks) where the only thing you will be able to do is to keep the interest on your loans at bay. For more competitive fields, residency may stretch up to 7 years in addition to a fellowship of 7 years on top of that.
So for MDs, at the minimum, you're training for seven years (med school 4, residency 3) and likely paying off loans for 3+ years. That's a 10 year commitment.
For the most competitive specialties, you're training for EIGHTEEN years (med school 4, residency 7, fellowship 7) and paying off loans for 1-2 years for a 15+ year commitment.
If you are only strictly talking about matters of compensation and work-life balance, medical school is not the way to go unless you are truly service oriented and are interested in medicine as a way to parlay your passions and skills for it.

Edit: There are other serious issues with this post as well.
Stay away from DO. At this point in time, nearly every US MD is able to get a residency, but DOs and especially international medical graduates are having a tougher time getting into a residency. Even if just 25-30% of DOs don't get one (I think that's where the numbers are at right now), do you really want to spend all that time studying for the MCAT and subsequently in some of the toughest curriculum of any discipline only to have a 70% chance of getting into medicine? Again, if you are truly passionate about medicine, go for it. Otherwise, stay far away.
Physician assistant: PA school is lighter on academics for admissions than MD, but that's because they require work experience. To be competitive, you need 1000-2000 hours of work experience, preferably paid, in the medical field. The reason why PA school is just three years is that they expect you to pick up on things much more quickly through your work experience. It certainly doesn't hurt to get that work experience just to see what it is really like to be in medicine--that might help you decide between PharmD, MD, PA, etc. But if you don't like it, obviously there's no reason to go through the subsequent schooling.

[hubbathehut]

I'm not familiar with these law terms - T14 law?

anyway the common app opens today, i'm applying to public schools (even with the out of state tuition)
private just wasn't for me
the uc system doesn't sound too good either
university of Michigan would be my first choice, however obviously id have to pay out of state tuition as I'm a California resident

edit: whew, I kept getting banned left and right, but its great to find some people on here on a similar wavelength, kind of

[Barack O'Drama]

Former pre-med major here...
So upon entering college I wanted to be a lawyer, but the job market was god awful in 2012 and it scared the shit out of me. So I came into college knowing I could go to law school with a pre-med major, but it would also be nice to have a back up plan in case the job market was still fucked.

I too wanted to do radiology. The decision was based off of a quick google search of "Types of doctors who make lots of money"
However, after some work at Americorps, shadowing a doctor, and finding medicine really boring, I decided my plan A of being an attorney was truly for me. I eventually ended up majoring in History/Economics + Biology.

Always, I'm not sure what the point of this is... Wait why can't you just apply with a pre-med degree? With a 3.78 you'll be in a good position to get into a good school with a good LSAT. Even if you do transfer or whatever you have going on, don't spend 3 years getting what will be a worthless degree. The time is better spent: 1) Finishing your pre med degree. 2) studying for the LSAT 3) working getting experience.

[hubbathehut]

I don't think I could become a lawyer. Not enough resources
Considering other healthcare fields now...physical therapist?

[Dcc617]

I don't think I could become a lawyer. Not enough resources
Considering other healthcare fields now...physical therapist?

So nobody has any idea if what you're going on about.

Why don't you want to just finish your degree?

Why can't you just withdraw for a year or two if money is the big issue?

Why are you soliciting this kind of advice on a law school forum?

[Mikey]

I don't think I could become a lawyer. Not enough resources
Considering other healthcare fields now...physical therapist?

Not enough resources? Are you talking about money for tuition or connections for a job? If the former, you can just kill the LSAT, and go to a school with a large scholarship. If the latter, if you go to a good school, and do great, then you can still get a good job with minimal connections.

OP, it's pretty clear that you're confused about what you want to do as a career.. And I'm just going to say that I'm sure almost everyone here will agree that you're a very confusing (and confused) individual. Find out what you want to do, weigh the positive/negatives, think hard about if you REALLY want to do whatever it is you're thinking about, and go from there. If you decide "*light bulb* Hey, I really want to be a lawyer because ____", then come back here and you can get great advice on how to go about dealing with admissions and so on. But no one is going to decide for you whether to go into the medical field, law or some other field, that's your decision.

[Big Dog]

it has to do with the housing, it is difficult to live there while here I have the advantage of having my own room basically

Again, you will need a really good reason to transfer to Cal or UCLA and newsflash, private housing ain't one of them.

Wouldn't it just make more sense to live off campus on the Peninsula somewhere -- free bus/train pass -- and finish your degree at S? If you rock the LSAT, you have a shot a Harvard Law.