Community College. 4.03 GPA. 174 LSAT. Forum

[j0hnnyBg00d]

Hello everyone,

I am looking to apply to law school this coming cycle, but my situation is a bit interesting. As the story goes, I opted for community college over a four year university after high school because of cost issues. I am a political science major, have always wanted to go to law school, and did not want to take out loans for my undergraduate studies since it is inevitable that I will be paying off my debt from law school for a while. During the second year of my college career, prior to even applying to a four year university, I began taking upper division major and G.E. course at a local university via cross-enrollment or open university. I came into community college with AP credit (9 units), and after taking on heavy unit loads each semester, upper division units at my local university, as well as summer courses, I am now on pace to graduate a year early and have all of my required classes completed in time. I know that I do not want to take a break prior to applying to law school, I know what I want to do, and I am ready for law school from a maturity level standpoint, drive standpoint, mental standpoint, etc.

Here is where it gets odd. I have been accepted into the four year university that I was previously taking open university and cross enrollment classes at. However, I will be applying to law school before taking actual classes at this university as a matriculated student. Will that even matter to law schools? I am on pace to graduate next year, and I have been taking upper division major courses at this university through open university, that I would have taken if I were a matriculated student. The only difference is that on my transcript it is stated that I took these courses (15 units btw) via cross enrollment or open university.

Will law schools view my situation as a reason to deny me? Will shedding light on the reason why I attended community college in the first place be a good idea in my application?

My softs are average, possibly even below average compared to others. I have interned at my local courthouse for a few months and put in well over 500 hours. I have been working at the D.A.s office during the summers. In addition, I was accepted into a law school preparatory program that is set up by a local law school in my city. With this program, we learned first hand what law school would be like, had speakers from various types of law speak, and made great connections with professors, judges, lawyers, and law students.

Here are my stats:
I took the LSAT in February, and I scored a 174
My cumulative GPA from both the community college and university is a 4.03.

Thank you in advanced

[Barack O'Drama]

I don't think it will be a problem if I understand your situation correctly. Mostly law schools care about keeping their medians and 75% tiles high enough. Focus on keeping your awesome GPA, solidifying professors that will give you great LOR, and making sure your apps are air tight. You should have a great cycle when you apply with numbers like those. Keep that GPA up!

[Pneumonia]

Will your degree be from State U or from community college? If the former, putting it on your resumé should be enough to allay your concerns. With a 4.03, I doubt that most adcoms are going to be scrutinizing your transcript. If you end up significantly underperforming your numbers – which in your case would mean failing to get into Harvard and/or big scholarships at CCN – then you should consider reapplying next year.

Where do you want to go to school? Is debt a huge concern? Region? Career goals?

I did several years at a community college before transferring to my state's flagship undergrad, and from there I went straight through to law school. If anything, I over-performed my numbers, so I don't think you necessarily need to be worried about your choice of undergrad affecting your cycle.

The law school prep program sounds like a good experience, but it is not something you should emphasize in your apps. At most, give it one line on your resumè. Depending on the law school that hosted it, I might not even do that.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss specifics, and good luck!

[j0hnnyBg00d]

Will your degree be from State U or from community college? If the former, putting it on your resumé should be enough to allay your concerns. With a 4.03, I doubt that most adcoms are going to be scrutinizing your transcript. If you end up significantly underperforming your numbers – which in your case would mean failing to get into Harvard and/or big scholarships at CCN – then you should consider reapplying next year.

Where do you want to go to school? Is debt a huge concern? Region? Career goals?

I did several years at a community college before transferring to my state's flagship undergrad, and from there I went straight through to law school. If anything, I over-performed my numbers, so I don't think you necessarily need to be worried about your choice of undergrad affecting your cycle.

The law school prep program sounds like a good experience, but it is not something you should emphasize in your apps. At most, give it one line on your resumè. Depending on the law school that hosted it, I might not even do that.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss specifics, and good luck!

Thank you for your advice and input. I will be getting my bachelors degree from the State University next spring (a year earlier than the traditional four years). Due to simply being a community college student, I have accepted that Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, and even U Chicago are reaches for me. Region is not a significant concern for me. I would like to stay in California for law school, however, I am not opposed to leaving CA to attend a more prestigious law school.

The law school that set up the law school prep program is a third tier law school. Highly respected school in the city, but probably not the flashiest thing to overemphasize in my resume.

[ss32]

I'd say Berkeley with a substantial scholarship would be a good and very feasible outcome for you, if you're debt-averse. The fact that it's a California state school might mean that they understand the CA community college transfer system a bit better, and understand that your classes at the State U were the same as if you'd been enrolled there at the time. Regardless of that, you should be in just based on your numbers, and they love high GPAs.

Also, they have a scholarship matching program (https://www.law.berkeley.edu/admissions ... holarship/). So, my advice would be to apply to all of the schools on that list, see what scholarships you get, try to get Berkeley to match, and if they don't or you decide you want to leave CA (or get into Stanford), do that.

If you are super debt-averse, and depending on what kind of work you want to do, maybe also throw in apps to USC and UCLA because you are likely looking at a full ride.

All this said, if you write a good personal statement and get great recs, I wouldn't rule out Stanford/Harvard/Columbia/etc just because you went to community college.

[Rigo]

I think your age/k-jd status will be brought up in interviews, but that's pretty normal.
You may underperform your numbers a but, but they're outstanding so you'll definitely have fantastic options and nab a sweet full-ride.

[KissMyAxe]

Will your degree be from State U or from community college? If the former, putting it on your resumé should be enough to allay your concerns. With a 4.03, I doubt that most adcoms are going to be scrutinizing your transcript. If you end up significantly underperforming your numbers – which in your case would mean failing to get into Harvard and/or big scholarships at CCN – then you should consider reapplying next year.

Where do you want to go to school? Is debt a huge concern? Region? Career goals?

I did several years at a community college before transferring to my state's flagship undergrad, and from there I went straight through to law school. If anything, I over-performed my numbers, so I don't think you necessarily need to be worried about your choice of undergrad affecting your cycle.

The law school prep program sounds like a good experience, but it is not something you should emphasize in your apps. At most, give it one line on your resumè. Depending on the law school that hosted it, I might not even do that.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss specifics, and good luck!

Thank you for your advice and input. I will be getting my bachelors degree from the State University next spring (a year earlier than the traditional four years). Due to simply being a community college student, I have accepted that Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, and even U Chicago are reaches for me. Region is not a significant concern for me. I would like to stay in California for law school, however, I am not opposed to leaving CA to attend a more prestigious law school.

The law school that set up the law school prep program is a third tier law school. Highly respected school in the city, but probably not the flashiest thing to overemphasize in my resume.

It's possible Stanford might be a reach, and with all your classes coming from community college, I think Yale will be an uphill battle. That said, it's worth blanketing the entire T14. I think you'll perform close to your numbers. I'd still say you have an excellent chance at being admitted to Stanford, with significant scholarship money to Berkeley (definitely apply to all their peer schools they're willing to match). I would be surprised if you were not accepted to Harvard, Columbia, and Chicago, the latter two with significant money, though I don't think you should be super confident about your chances at a Hamilton/Ruby, since softs do come into play with the full scholarships, and your LSAT could be a couple points higher. And your odds at Yale, while still pretty low (though it's good your diploma will come from the state school, as I'm not aware of a community college student ever getting accepted at YLS, us state school students are rare enough) are not 0. Definitely apply and see what happens.

Congratulations on the excellent GPA and LSAT. I'd be happy to review your essays if interested.

[Rigo]

Agree on blanketing T14 + UCLA and USC.

[j0hnnyBg00d]

Thank you everyone for the very helpful input. Will retaking the LSAT in Sept be something I should consider? I think I could hit the 176-177. Will it make a difference though?

Also, is it worth it to include an addendum mentioning why I decided to attend community college rather than a 4 year U? I do not regret my decision to attend a community college by any means. I have saved thousands of dollars, and have in turn given myself the "freedom/peace of mind" to not be so debt averse when deciding between law schools. Less loans I would have to pay off.


Thanks again, everyone.

[ss32]

Thank you everyone for the very helpful input. Will retaking the LSAT in Sept be something I should consider? I think I could hit the 176-177. Will it make a difference though?

Also, is it worth it to include an addendum mentioning why I decided to attend community college rather than a 4 year U? I do not regret my decision to attend a community college by any means. I have saved thousands of dollars, and have in turn given myself the "freedom/peace of mind" to not be so debt averse when deciding between law schools. Less loans I would have to pay off.


Thanks again, everyone.

I wouldn't include an addendum to explain why you went to community college, if the reason you went to community college was an obvious one (i.e. it's cheap). If you went to community college so you could stay at home and care for a sick parent or something, mayyybe then. Also, community college isn't something you need to apologize for. If it fits naturally into your personal statement, maybe weave it into that.

[Pneumonia]

Thank you everyone for the very helpful input. Will retaking the LSAT in Sept be something I should consider? I think I could hit the 176-177. Will it make a difference though?

Also, is it worth it to include an addendum mentioning why I decided to attend community college rather than a 4 year U? I do not regret my decision to attend a community college by any means. I have saved thousands of dollars, and have in turn given myself the "freedom/peace of mind" to not be so debt averse when deciding between law schools. Less loans I would have to pay off.

Thanks again, everyone.

For me, it's hard to think of many scenarios in which retaking a 174 would be the right call. Yours certainly isn't one of them – you have a high GPA (so you're not going for one of the super-splitter spots at H) and you're almost certainly not going to get into Yale no matter what your LSAT is (because KJD and community college). Stanford may take you, but their decision would very likely be the same even if you had a 177.

You don't need an addendum about community college, but you should be prepared to answer questions about it in any interviews. You have a good answer, and your GPA and LSAT speak for themselves.

I agree with the optimism that everyone here is expressing about your chances at everywhere except Harvard. But, you're still going to need to put together a great PS to make that a reality. Don't slack off on the other portions of the app just because your numbers are good (not saying that I think you would; it's just a trap people sometimes fall into). What are you doing for letters of recommendation?

[j0hnnyBg00d]

Thank you everyone for the very helpful input. Will retaking the LSAT in Sept be something I should consider? I think I could hit the 176-177. Will it make a difference though?

Also, is it worth it to include an addendum mentioning why I decided to attend community college rather than a 4 year U? I do not regret my decision to attend a community college by any means. I have saved thousands of dollars, and have in turn given myself the "freedom/peace of mind" to not be so debt averse when deciding between law schools. Less loans I would have to pay off.


Thanks again, everyone.

I wouldn't include an addendum to explain why you went to community college, if the reason you went to community college was an obvious one (i.e. it's cheap). If you went to community college so you could stay at home and care for a sick parent or something, mayyybe then. Also, community college isn't something you need to apologize for. If it fits naturally into your personal statement, maybe weave it into that.

Hmmm. Very good point; I did not think about that.

[Bearlyalive]

Thank you for your advice and input. I will be getting my bachelors degree from the State University next spring (a year earlier than the traditional four years). Due to simply being a community college student, I have accepted that Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, and even U Chicago are reaches for me. Region is not a significant concern for me. I would like to stay in California for law school, however, I am not opposed to leaving CA to attend a more prestigious law school.

The law school that set up the law school prep program is a third tier law school. Highly respected school in the city, but probably not the flashiest thing to overemphasize in my resume.

The only reach you might have is Yale. For every other school you have a good shot (with scholarship $ at CCN and lower too). Harvard may be wish-washy too, but that will be because you are a KJD, not because you went to CC.

I'm also a community college transfer that did CC -> California state school. My numbers are a bit better than yours, but at this level that only really makes a difference for scholarship awards (at least IMO). I'm very pleased with my cycle, and I don't think that having gone to a CC hurt me at all, except maybe on the margins of the margins. My CC was on my resume and my transcript, but other than that I did not mention it on my application. The only school that even asked about my CC was Columbia, and that obviously didn't hurt me with them. I did not get into Stanford, but I also didn't apply to them until right before the deadline, I did not include a Stanford-specific LOR, and I did not write a LOCI (or demonstrate my interest in any other way, because, quite frankly, I wasn't interested and wanted to get out of California for law school). If you want Stanford, you are definitely in a position to get it so long as you apply earlier and let them know you are interested.

Make sure your LORs and essays are in tip top shape. Get recommendations from professors who know and like you, even if you didn't necessarily take 3 classes with them or have them edit your thesis (which I'm guessing you didn't do one anyways, neither did I and it doesn't matter). Yale is really the only school that even demonstrably cares about LORs, and they prefer letters from professors who can talk about how they enjoyed teaching you. Stanford cares about LORs to the extent that one of your recommenders mentions you wanting to go to Stanford and why you would be a good fit there. Your recommenders can be CC professors, it won't make a difference. Get letters from the people who would be enthusiastic to recommend you, not from people who seem impressive or who you just did very well in their class.

Do not write your essay about a cliché topic (I did, and I still hit my head against my desk whenever I think about it, even though I got the exact outcome I wanted anyways). I would recommend not making your CC, or especially your reasons for attending CC, the focal point of your PS. Your PS should be about highlighting your strengths, not making excuses (which, even if you think you aren't, it will likely still read like you are). If you really have a compelling reason for attending CC and it works into a larger narrative, then that's fine, but using CC as a "growth story" definitely falls into the cliché categories to avoid. Don't go out of your way to avoid talking about your CC experiences, but also don't make it a defining part of your application.

Make your application good, and you should be good for several full rides to the lower t-14, and maybe even competitive for a Butler at CLS. If you can retake again and increase your score, there's no harm in doing so; a few more points could open up a CCN full ride as well. Feel free to PM me if you have questions.

[Rigo]

I wouldn't include an addendum to explain why you went to community college. Also, community college isn't something you need to apologize for.

This. I wouldn't do an addendum no matter the reason.

[j0hnnyBg00d]

Thank you everyone for the very helpful input. Will retaking the LSAT in Sept be something I should consider? I think I could hit the 176-177. Will it make a difference though?
my
Also, is it worth it to include an addendum mentioning why I decided to attend community college rather than a 4 year U? I do not regret my decision to attend a community college by any means. I have saved thousands of dollars, and have in turn given myself the "freedom/peace of mind" to not be so debt averse when deciding between law schools. Less loans I would have to pay off.

Thanks again, everyone.

For me, it's hard to think of many scenarios in which retaking a 174 would be the right call. Yours certainly isn't one of them – you have a high GPA (so you're not going for one of the super-splitter spots at H) and you're almost certainly not going to get into Yale no matter what your LSAT is (because KJD and community college). Stanford may take you, but their decision would very likely be the same even if you had a 177.

You don't need an addendum about community college, but you should be prepared to answer questions about it in any interviews. You have a good answer, and your GPA and LSAT speak for themselves.

I agree with the optimism that everyone here is expressing about your chances at everywhere except Harvard. But, you're still going to need to put together a great PS to make that a reality. Don't slack off on the other portions of the app just because your numbers are good (not saying that I think you would; it's just a trap people sometimes fall into). What are you doing for letters of recommendation?

Thank you for your advice. Instead of studying for the LSAT again, maybe it is more worth my while to use that energy on my apps.
For my LORs, I was thinking of asking my head supervisor at the DAs office I work at during the summers. In addition, the pre law adviser at my university knows me very well, and has expressed to me that she would love to write a LOR for me. I also asked one of my CC professors to write a LOR for me. I got two of my A+'s in her class when I took intro to paralegal studies and business law. She is also a former lawyer, turned mayor (I know the status of the individual should not matter, but it has to be some kind of plus, right?) I have a good relationship with her, she helped guide me toward getting the summer job at the DAs office, she would write an excellent LOR.

[j0hnnyBg00d]

Thank you for your advice and input. I will be getting my bachelors degree from the State University next spring (a year earlier than the traditional four years). Due to simply being a community college student, I have accepted that Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, and even U Chicago are reaches for me. Region is not a significant concern for me. I would like to stay in California for law school, however, I am not opposed to leaving CA to attend a more prestigious law school.

The law school that set up the law school prep program is a third tier law school. Highly respected school in the city, but probably not the flashiest thing to overemphasize in my resume.

The only reach you might have is Yale. For every other school you have a good shot (with scholarship $ at CCN and lower too). Harvard may be wish-washy too, but that will be because you are a KJD, not because you went to CC.

I'm also a community college transfer that did CC -> California state school. My numbers are a bit better than yours, but at this level that only really makes a difference for scholarship awards (at least IMO). I'm very pleased with my cycle, and I don't think that having gone to a CC hurt me at all, except maybe on the margins of the margins. My CC was on my resume and my transcript, but other than that I did not mention it on my application. The only school that even asked about my CC was Columbia, and that obviously didn't hurt me with them. I did not get into Stanford, but I also didn't apply to them until right before the deadline, I did not include a Stanford-specific LOR, and I did not write a LOCI (or demonstrate my interest in any other way, because, quite frankly, I wasn't interested and wanted to get out of California for law school). If you want Stanford, you are definitely in a position to get it so long as you apply earlier and let them know you are interested.

Make sure your LORs and essays are in tip top shape. Get recommendations from professors who know and like you, even if you didn't necessarily take 3 classes with them or have them edit your thesis (which I'm guessing you didn't do one anyways, neither did I and it doesn't matter). Yale is really the only school that even demonstrably cares about LORs, and they prefer letters from professors who can talk about how they enjoyed teaching you. Stanford cares about LORs to the extent that one of your recommenders mentions you wanting to go to Stanford and why you would be a good fit there. Your recommenders can be CC professors, it won't make a difference. Get letters from the people who would be enthusiastic to recommend you, not from people who seem impressive or who you just did very well in their class.

Do not write your essay about a cliché topic (I did, and I still hit my head against my desk whenever I think about it, even though I got the exact outcome I wanted anyways). I would recommend not making your CC, or especially your reasons for attending CC, the focal point of your PS. Your PS should be about highlighting your strengths, not making excuses (which, even if you think you aren't, it will likely still read like you are). If you really have a compelling reason for attending CC and it works into a larger narrative, then that's fine, but using CC as a "growth story" definitely falls into the cliché categories to avoid. Don't go out of your way to avoid talking about your CC experiences, but also don't make it a defining part of your application.

Make your application good, and you should be good for several full rides to the lower t-14, and maybe even competitive for a Butler at CLS. If you can retake again and increase your score, there's no harm in doing so; a few more points could open up a CCN full ride as well. Feel free to PM me if you have questions.

Nice! Heaven sent! Thank you so much for your input! I am relieved to know that someone who has a similar story to mine had little to no limitations when applying to law school. I will keep your points in mind as I continue to work on my application.

From one CC student to another, congrats on a great cycle:P