Abysmally low UGPA...Should I give up on law school? Forum

[Not an artist]

Hello, it's my first post on here.

Essentially should I give up on law school?

Details:2.7 gpa / 158 lsat (Florida State)

So I've been entangled with the idea of law school for about over a decade. I had some depression issues in undergraduate which led to a pretty low gpa. I wasn't diagnosed or treated throughout undergrad which made things worse but I dropped out for my last semester of senior year. Later took an online class for the last credit hours I needed. I graduated two and a half years ago and gotten better. I took the lsat right after undergrad with minimal studying. In the mean time I've worked some interesting jobs.(politics, teaching English abroad, and legal assistant)

Long term I want to work in politics. I'm pretty politically active in south Florida. Although young people warn me to stay away, every acquaintances or friend over the age of 35 has strongly encouraged law school. Most tend to have attended regional schools and then work in small or mid law then run for office. Honestly this would be ideal for me. Also if I never break out into politics i would not be unhappy working in law as long as I found the cause to be noble. Ideal job is government law and staying in Florida. I would try for big law if I had the chance but I know it's extremely minuscule. Also my network is pretty good down here.

Anyways I'm considering retaking (it will be two years since my last) and I could have a solid 4 months of studying. No job just studying. It would suck to be out of income but I'm moving back with the parents after my current contract is done.

Would like to attend UF/FSU/FIU/UM but dream of GULC.

Should I retake? Should I forget law school? Should I get another undergraduate degree to change my gpa?

[Danny Mothers]

If you want to do politics don't mess around with law school. I would say this even if you had a great UGPA. You say you've already worked in politics; keep doing that.

[Not an artist]

Danny, thanks for the quick response. This is to me the most logical thing to do. But all my mentors in politics urge me to go to law school. I've hit a ceiling promotions wise and law school is the go to "shortcut" to getting ahead which I don't understand. I've been In the cycle of working as an organizer during campaigns then doing something else waiting for the next. Some of my colleagues have been stuck in this for over a decade . Essentially I keep getting told that I'll always remain a staffer unless I go to law school or run a business for a bit.

[Barack O'Drama]

Yeah if your ultimate goal is politics I don't honestly think going to law school is going to be the best way for you. While a lot of politicians have law backgrounds, there are many that don't as well. I think your best bet might be finding a job as a policy analyst or something political on a local/state level and get to know some people. It just seems like your law degree is means to an end, and then worse case you wouldn't mind ending up working law.

With your GPA/LSAT as of now, there probably isn't much worth attending. A lot of the T3/T4 regional schools you're going to get into will put you in a lot of debt with less than a coin flip chance of a job practicing as a lawyer. So if you do decide to pursue law, definitely retake and get the LSAT up to 175+

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[mornincounselor]

Maybe that's the way it used to be, but it isn't that way anymore. Maybe when law school tuition could be paid off by working part-time 2L and 3L, it was a good idea.

With your GPA, you will never be able to attend GULC at a reasonable price. You might be able to eventually get a decent price as UF if you diligently study and retake until you get a 167+. But, to go through all that plus pay $xx,000 to not get a job as a lawyer is silly.

[Not an artist]

Counselor, you're absolutely correct. I think there's a information lag and there are probably hundreds or thousands who are now working way up local political ranks in a new framework whatever that may be.

I guess the question comes down to would I rather be a lawyer than what I'm currently doing and have the possibility of exit option in politics in the far future. If that's the case a diligent retake is in order.

Any advice on how to make that decision? I've worked in a small law firm and have had coffee with a bunch of lawyers. Any ideas?

Also thank you all for such great responses.

[Rigo]

It doesn't sound like you actually have a passion for or want to practice law. That GPA (plus LSAT) equals a lot of debt and/or not good law schools. Don't step in the quicksand.

[Lexaholik]

You should go to a local school (UF, etc.) with substantial scholarship money. Don't go to GULC or any other top law school (even though that's what a lot of people will tell you what to do on this forum.) You want to attend a school that keeps you local, and allows you to work on campaigns etc. during the year.

Your GPA and LSAT are probably too weak to get any good scholarship money from decent schools. Work hard to get that LSAT higher and then apply to all FL schools. See what options you have, and attend the school that gives you the best deal.

[pancakes3]

If you're familiar enough with TLS and/or LS admissions to be dropping "UGPA" and "GULC" when posting, you should already know TCR.

[Johann]

Danny, thanks for the quick response. This is to me the most logical thing to do. But all my mentors in politics urge me to go to law school. I've hit a ceiling promotions wise and law school is the go to "shortcut" to getting ahead which I don't understand. I've been In the cycle of working as an organizer during campaigns then doing something else waiting for the next. Some of my colleagues have been stuck in this for over a decade . Essentially I keep getting told that I'll always remain a staffer unless I go to law school or run a business for a bit.

yeah, if your mentors in the field are telling you need a law degree, then they know that's what you need to continue the path. retake to reduce your debt and then go to UF or FSU.

law sucks though, so i wouldnt plan on working as a lawyer for much time. how much money do you make now? do you have a path to 75k? if so, i would not do law school.

[TheProdigal]

I see a lot of UF being mentioned here, but FSU seems the better choice between the two just to have access to the capitol and associated other industries while in school.

For south Florida, UM might even be a better idea for networking.

But is it the law degree or just any advanced degree which you need? Both FSU and UF offer applied polisci master programs.

[mornincounselor]

I see a lot of UF being mentioned here, but FSU seems the better choice between the two just to have access to the capitol and associated other industries while in school.

For south Florida, UM might even be a better idea for networking.

But is it the law degree or just any advanced degree which you need? Both FSU and UF offer applied polisci master programs.

This very well could be right, I will defer to TheProdigal who seems to have a much better handle on the Florida market.

[Not an artist]

I see a lot of UF being mentioned here, but FSU seems the better choice between the two just to have access to the capitol and associated other industries while in school.

For south Florida, UM might even be a better idea for networking.

But is it the law degree or just any advanced degree which you need? Both FSU and UF offer applied polisci master programs.

I think the reason why they all recommend it is the networking. Almost all of them are friends from Uf, FSU, or UM law school. I even once met a man who went to a T5, with a really impressive resume, who told me he had trouble breaking into the Miami scene because everyone knew each other from law school.

The applied politics masters are both great ideas. Plus I can apply to both with lsat. I will apply to both as well as law school. Also I can do those programs part time and continue working.

The only problem with my current job is pay is around 25-30k with an average of about 4 month of unemployment between campaigns every year. For 80 hour weeks, it's just not sustainable. There may be a path to 75k but chances are slim and even still campaign life can't be done forever.

Any thoughts on FIU Law? Also I could potentially live at home for UM or FIU (40 minute drive) and cut costs.

[TheProdigal]

I see a lot of UF being mentioned here, but FSU seems the better choice between the two just to have access to the capitol and associated other industries while in school.

For south Florida, UM might even be a better idea for networking.

But is it the law degree or just any advanced degree which you need? Both FSU and UF offer applied polisci master programs.

I think the reason why they all recommend it is the networking. Almost all of them are friends from Uf, FSU, or UM law school. I even once met a man who went to a T5, with a really impressive resume, who told me he had trouble breaking into the Miami scene because everyone knew each other from law school.

The applied politics masters are both great ideas. Plus I can apply to both with lsat. I will apply to both as well as law school. Also I can do those programs part time and continue working.

The only problem with my current job is pay is around 25-30k with an average of about 4 month of unemployment between campaigns every year. For 80 hour weeks, it's just not sustainable. There may be a path to 75k but chances are slim and even still campaign life can't be done forever.

Any thoughts on FIU Law? Also I could potentially live at home for UM or FIU (40 minute drive) and cut costs.

Pre-script: Fairly inebriated, so please bear with any paragraph construction issues. This may be a bit all over the place. Apologies in advance.

So, I guess I'm wondering a bit what your primary goals are. Are you looking to be a candidate down the road yourself? If so, law school can give you networking and such. If not, I'm having trouble seeing the value in doing so. If you're doing campaign work the only "true" value add would be as an election and advertising attorney, and my understanding is that's a pretty limited field to break into. Rick Wilson (Republican) spends about a million each cycle on defending his attack ads from legal challenges.

If you're Team Blue, there's not nearly as much money in Florida for such things as a career. Good if you're selling yourself as a campaign manager (or whatever) who can also do that line of work for no added cost, but not a great career as a standalone election lawyer.

I get (and am guilty of) imprecise goals and multiple layers of fallback plans, but for the debt you're likely looking at with that GPA its good to have a more nailed down plan.

Anecdotally, a friend with one of the aforementioned master's degrees ended up deciding not going to Barry despite many lawyers working in Florida politics telling him "don't worry where the degree is from, once you've got the JD you're in." He's now beating out JDs for (lobbying) jobs in Tallahassee because they don't have the slightest bit of relevant experience coming out of school (while he did) and is overseeing 2L and 3L interns.

Another friend did FSU Law, landed an internship at the capitol which came with a full-tuition scholarship for the following year. He ended up going military, but a huge bonus for anyone wanting to network -- the options are there.

I don't know if you've looked at it, but the FSU rubric for admission on LSAC shows no one getting in with a uGPA between 2.50 and 2.74 with less than a 160. A 160-164 gives roughly a 50% shot. I would assume UF is a hair more stringent. As for FIU? At a guess, it would lock you into very regional politics if relying on networking, as FSU/UF/even UM travel a bit further. All of this said, thinking about the professors and guest lecturers I had for one of those MS programs, not a single one had a JD. These include people routinely on national news. The faces of Florida politics, if you will.

Congratulations on getting through this trainwreck of a post.

[Traynor Brah]

law school does not sound like a good idea here.

[Londonbear]

You don't need to waste time getting another side degree to boost up your GPA, but you do need an amazing LSAT score for law school to be feasible.

You would need an amazing LSAT score to make up for the GPA for GULC, probably like 170+ (I might even say like 175+). They're splitter friendly, especially if you have work experience, but like a previous poster said, you're not going to get ANY money from them. So unless you're going to be okay with the debt, which means you're okay working in like biglaw for a few years to pay that off, then it is not very attractive. Also if you're looking to work in Florida after graduation, it's a hard market to break into from GULC, you might be better off just going to the best law school in Florida, especially if you get $$ along w/the offers. For biglaw, GULC places the most in NY, DC, and then CA. One of the benefits though of GULC is you do have access to a lot of governmental agencies. You can extern during the year at Dept of State, White House, Senate offices, etc.

[Rigo]

You don't need to waste time getting another side degree to boost up your GPA

Well, that's impossible anyways. LSAC doesn't factor classes taken after your first Bachelor's is conferred into your GPA.