Very upset.. deferred by NYLS..High GPA low LSAT Forum

[VB13]

Hey everyone. I hope everybody is taking the waiting game pretty well. Lots of smart folks on here that I hope to see in the courtroom one day.

Anyway I got a deferral letter from New York Law School. Im pretty upset about it because I thought I had a great personal statement (TARGETTED-- NOT A GENERAL ONE), 2 LORs from very knowledgable and significant people that know me pretty well, and a good GPA (3.89 at the time of application.. LSDAS says its a 3.97...Classes were pretty difficult on the most part). I've volunteered for several years at a school for young kids. I've also worked as a Valet parking Manager, U.S. Pretrial Services Agency Intern, and medical officer supervisor. The only problem was that I am a horrible standardized test taker. I got a 149 on my LSATs but refused to take them again because like I said before... Im just not good (yea I took many practice tests and even a Princeton Review course). I wrote an addendum however illustrating that my dysmal performance on the LSATs will fail as an correct indicator/predictor of my ability to succeed as a student in law school because my poor performance on the SATs (1080) were not true indicators of my college performance.

Now i've got my fingers crossed for Hofstra Law. I've also sent an App to Touro as a backup which was a pretty upsetting thing to do considering how hard I have worked for 4 years. Those 5 hours of my life really screwed me. Anyway anyone care to gamble on my chances at Hofstra or NYLS?

[jas5076]

Don't go to either of those schools! RETAKE THE LSAT... repeat... RETAKE THE LSAT... With a 3.97 gpa or the 3.8 whatever it was you should not be in the realm of these schools you should be way way way higher. Just get to a 160 on the lsat or something but at least give it one more shot and re apply next year. Do yourself a huge favor! It will be well worth it if you can bump your score by about 10 points!!

[Pyke]

I think retaking the LSAT is your best bet....

[VB13]

well like i said before.. im not good at taking standardized tests... I've done everything.. I've studied, I took a prep course, and I prayed. Nothing really helps. I either can't concentrate and keep a fresh mind for 5 hours or I'm just a slow test taker (I usually finish last on regular exams because I'm insecure ) A friend of mine who has no interest in Law took the LSAT for shits and giggles and got a 168.. Its gotta built into you I guess.

I like to take my sweet ass time to do the work and think things through. I know it'll bite me in the ass sooner or later but on the flipside... as a lawyer you also have to give your ideas some thought before they come out of your mouth. I cant tell you how many times I've been to court as a Pretrial Intern and heard the most idiotic things come out of lawyers. Example: at a sentencing hearing, the felon's lawyer says "Your honor, you have to consider the fact that my client was 12 months pregnant at the time she committed the crime". Or this one: "Your honor, I've worked with many families with autistic children. These children may not be removed from their sole parent for a prolonged period of time..." Judge answers: "Counsler, I have worked with solely with autistic children for 30 years. Do not lecture me on autistic children sir. You are not a qualified expert." The lawyer stood there like an idiot.

[Mark71121]

You should have a good chance at Hofstra. I'd imagine you're a lock at Touro. I don't know much about NYLaw but I think that will probably be a reach for you with that GPA/LSAT. Best of luck to you.

[MTal]

offmason...this is getting ridiculous.

[BoaltTroll]

Hey everyone. I hope everybody is taking the waiting game pretty well. Lots of smart folks on here that I hope to see in the courtroom one day.

Anyway I got a deferral letter from New York Law School. Im pretty upset about it because I thought I had a great personal statement (TARGETTED-- NOT A GENERAL ONE), 2 LORs from very knowledgable and significant people that know me pretty well, and a good GPA (3.89 at the time of application.. LSDAS says its a 3.97...Classes were pretty difficult on the most part). I've volunteered for several years at a school for young kids. I've also worked as a Valet parking Manager, U.S. Pretrial Services Agency Intern, and medical officer supervisor. The only problem was that I am a horrible standardized test taker. I got a 149 on my LSATs but refused to take them again because like I said before... Im just not good (yea I took many practice tests and even a Princeton Review course). I wrote an addendum however illustrating that my dysmal performance on the LSATs will fail as an correct indicator/predictor of my ability to succeed as a student in law school because my poor performance on the SATs (1080) were not true indicators of my college performance.

Now i've got my fingers crossed for Hofstra Law. I've also sent an App to Touro as a backup which was a pretty upsetting thing to do considering how hard I have worked for 4 years. Those 5 hours of my life really screwed me. Anyway anyone care to gamble on my chances at Hofstra or NYLS?

I know that this is just yet another post on this board to you. But please consider this advice: retake the LSAT. Don't go to NYLS or Hofstra w/o a scholarship. I can't emphasize to you enough just how tough the NYC/NJ market is right now. With schools pumping in 10k lawyers each year, it's very difficult to find a job that isn't insurance defense/no fault or doc review. Please do yourself a favor and retake the LSAT. As someone who had to retake it himself to get where I'm at right now, I promise you that it's possible to learn how to take the LSAT. Just don't throw good money after bad and go to NYLS or Hofstra. Sleep on this advice.

[newtocali]

okay so im wondering - was your 149 reflective of your practice tests? did you do better on the practices at home and in the prep course and then just bug out in the test?

if your real score does not reflect your practice, i have some pointers...

[VB13]

I know that this is just yet another post on this board to you. But please consider this advice: retake the LSAT. Don't go to NYLS or Hofstra w/o a scholarship. I can't emphasize to you enough just how tough the NYC/NJ market is right now. With schools pumping in 10k lawyers each year, it's very difficult to find a job that isn't insurance defense/no fault or doc review. Please do yourself a favor and retake the LSAT. As someone who had to retake it himself to get where I'm at right now, I promise you that it's possible to learn how to take the LSAT. Just don't throw good money after bad and go to NYLS or Hofstra. Sleep on this advice.

Lots of people have been telling me that. I have a bad feeling that they might make the bar harder than it is to lower the supply of lawyers in the market. Lots of people have been discouraging me for a variety of reasons not to go to certain law schools or law school in general. Then new trend is the MBA trend. I really don't know what to do. Even if I retake the LSAT, chances are they won't improve significantly...

[spanktheduck]

In keeping with the idea of not suggesting that you not go to any of these schools at sticker price I suggest looking at jdunderground.com It is essentially a website devoted to graduates of those schools and it is not pretty. I really suggest that you retake or at the very least try for a state school, you will need to lower your expenses drastically if you go to one of them.

[Pyke]

Eh, if you got a 3.97 in college, either you went to a bird college or you can do better on the LSAT. In either case, a 157-160 would substantially increase your likelihood of getting into a GOOD school.

[yanksbgood]

Not trying to be mean, but if you are sure there is no way you can score higher than a 149, law might not be for you. As your high GPA would attest to, you are surely a smart guy, and there are many careers out there other than law. Im sure you can succeed, and make a good living in one of those.

Id think carefully before taking on so much debt in an already overcrowded market.

[VB13]

I honestly have no idea what else there is to do... This is turning into a soap opera.

[Prize24]

If the OP really took Princeton Review, it was a bad idea. I know many ppl who took that course and didnt go up much or even went down from their diagnostic LSAT score. There are much better prep courses out there. Get ur money back from PR. Take a better prep course and RETAKE THE LSAT.

[JustDude]

well like i said before.. im not good at taking standardized tests... I've done everything.. I've studied, I took a prep course, and I prayed. Nothing really helps. I either can't concentrate and keep a fresh mind for 5 hours or I'm just a slow test taker (I usually finish last on regular exams because I'm insecure )

Unfortunately you employed wrong tactic in preparing/taking exam.

1. You said - "I did everything, prep classes". This is the worst thing prep class can do. They give you an idea that you are doing something right by attending prep class, and as a result you stop working with yur head. You need to use your head.

2. Obviously you have bad test taking strategies. It seems to me that you are wearing yourself off thinking too much on questions and wasting time on them. And halfway trough test you have no time and noe braincapacity left for remaining questions.

3. You need to analyze what are you doing wrong and why. Take timed practice tests and analyze mistakes one by one. Trying to manage time properly.

[The Agitator]

Hire a private tutor to retake the LSAT, and if you don't improve, do not go to law school. You aren't going to get in anywhere worthwhile around NYC with a 149. That's the sad truth.

[ari20dal7]

You aren't going to get in anywhere worthwhile around NYC with less than a 164, most likely. I would never go to law school in NYC anywhere less than Fordham........

NYLS is a first class ticket to poverty and doc review. Please don't do it.

[dreday3223]

For what its worth I agree with everyone who says to take it again. As someone who has done that I had a 148 and a 143 (in undergrad when I wasnt focused). I worked for a bit and took it a few years (6 years to be exact) later and now I have a 158. With that said I got into both NYLS and Hofstra with a pretty large scholarship at Hofstra. I also got into St. Johns and was waitlisted at Fordham with only Brooklyn Law School pending. Definitely take it again, I did all of this with a 2.46 GPA in Undergrad. Granted I am an URM so I do get a boost but with your GPA and anything over 158 you will do yourself a huge favor. As I have learned, mostly from this site, dont go to law school for the sake of going, go with the intentions of getting into the best possible school. If you have the money take Powerscore (I took it and it worked wonders) or Testmasters (from what I hear). Put it this way your LSAT puts you right below the national average and to stay in the NY and do well after school you need to be well above that.

Good luck with whatever you decide

[VB13]

Thanks a lot guys.. Is it true that on average your scores dont increase THAT much?

[Gilgamesh]

That is true, but that doesn't mean it's not possible to increase your score.

[Mark71121]

Yeah, LSAC data shows that most people don't improve more than a couple of points. Poke around on their website a bit, you'll find some information on it.

[jas5076]

Yes that is true your average scores wont' increase that much UNLESS you do something different! What you need to do, is buy the logic games bible and logic reasoning bible take the old actual practice tests all 55 or however many there are out now. Then analyze the ones you get wrong, if you don't understand why you got them wrong go to your friend who got a 168, with a careful analysis of your practice tests and working through the bibles you will have to improve from a 149. You need to understand why you are getting the ones wrong that you are and also why you are getting the ones right that you get right. If you understand the test it really is not bad, someone who has over a 3.9 in college can surely figure it out! It just takes a lot of work and practice!! Best of luck

[RATRATRAT]

It doesn't matter what happens on avg., it matters what will happen in your particular situation.

In situations where one's GPA is dramatically higher than their LSAT, I often suspect test anxiety &c. You should look into seeing whether or not this a problem for you. Test strategies, &c. such as were suggested by others are important, but if he took PR, he likely knows a lot about test strategies. And I agree, sometimes PR or Kaplan will make you feel like you're already doing your part & you don't need to work, but I don't think that that could account for such a dramatic difference in GPA/LSAT.

As I've suggested to someone else on here before, getting test anxiety treated could be a big help to you, or also looking into other types of learning disabilities that could be compensated for (the LSAC can offer extra time if you have certain documented conditions). I doubt it's very easy to get something like that, but it's worth looking into if law school is what you are truly interested in doing.

But raising your score to the mid 150s is all you would really need to get somewhere in the top 100 law schools, I would think, although I don't know if it would be in NY. And raising your score the 6 points or whatever you would need would seem quite achievable if you are able to discover and correct whatever is causing your underperformance.

[emerald]

The only problem was that I am a horrible standardized test taker. I got a 149 on my LSATs but refused to take them again because like I said before... Im just not good (yea I took many practice tests and even a Princeton Review course). I wrote an addendum however illustrating that my dysmal performance on the LSATs will fail as an correct indicator/predictor of my ability to succeed as a student in law school because my poor performance on the SATs (1080) were not true indicators of my college performance.

I think this is your problem. You are convinced that you cannot do well on standardized tests. You need to lose this attitude. It's a self-fulfulling prophecy. Look at your GPA. You are obviously a very smart person. Now approach the LSAT positively. It's a test you have to take like any other test. Take a few months off. Then approach it again. Read through a whole new prep book, do more practice questions, analyze analyze analyze the type of problems you will encounter. Do the logic games over and over and over and over again. You can improve from a 149. Forget the prep courses. My bf took one and it increased his score by a whole 1 point. It's seriously mind over matter. Sometimes just a break can help you.

Take another year, retake the LSAT, and do some serious revisions of your personal statement. Make sure you have a top notch application. Do not go to one of these schools. No offense to them, but you can do better.

Its gotta built into you I guess.

Not only is this grammatically wrong, it is also a totally counterproductive attitude. You will not do better if you mope around convinced you will suck and feel sorry for yourself. You will do better if you think positively and WORK.

[RATRATRAT]

Contrary to what some may suggest, it can sometimes take more than positive thinking to get that 180. That said, a negative attitude can be self-fulfilling and everything that everyone else said. Be certain to eliminate that as a possibility.

But, if it is the case that it can't be attributed to negative thinking or lack of work ethic, and his school wasn't the terrible school that many are suggesting (and I have trouble with that argument anyway, as my 3.96 from a 3rd tier UG wasn't easy to get, so eat it), then perhaps it would make sense to look into some of what I was talking about.

The reason I emphasize this aspect so much is that both of my sisters are very intelligent but have test taking problems as well. It has been very effective for them to approach the problem through these channels.