Am I wasting my time? Forum

[ToffoIsMe]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and am just beginning, or should I say resuming, my quest to go to law school. I am looking for some advice on if this is a journey that I should even begin or if I may just be wasting my time as I have a detrimentally low undergrad GPA. I expect that I will be applying as an extreme splitter, but after doing a few searches on law school numbers am not seeing many applicants with a similar GPA that were applying to schools that I am interested in.

A little about me:
I have a 2.665 undergrad GPA from Rowan University in NJ where I majored in Law & Justice and minored in communication. I graduated in 2012 (I'm a nontraditional). I do not have a great story as to why I did poorly, other than I was just immature and did not have my priorities straight. I worked full time throughout college (40+ hours), cycled competitively (over 20+ hours a week training), and enjoyed my social life entirely too much. All of these things impacted my studies quite negatively.
Before my final year of undergrad I spent my summer interning with a local law office, so I do know what I am getting myself into as far as the day-to-day dealings of a lawyer. The attorney I worked for did a wide variety of work so I was able to see family, criminal, and personal injury cases.
Following graduation I struggled with what I wanted to do with my life and was deathly afraid of the commitment and possible rejection of trying to get into law school.
After graduation I ended up working at a relatively large, privately held, multi-national company on a part time basis. Over the past few years I've worked my way up the corporate ladder at a very quick rate, receiving four promotions. After 5 months in my first management position I was offered a higher level position without inquiring about or applying for it. As of right now I manage approximately $4.5 million in annual revenue, $3 million in annual expenses, and 26 employees in three states. By the time I would be starting law school (Fall 2017) I would have 5.5 years of work experience.
As previously stated, I was immature when I was in undergrad and did not have my priorities straight. Over the course of this past year it is something that I have begun to regret greatly and have been doing more and more research into applying for law school. I believe I can do well on the LSAT as I've always done well on standardized tests and have always liked logical reasoning puzzles. I've only tried a few random questions (10 or so) so far but have gotten them all correct. I'll be taking my first practice test this weekend and am able to commit to a minimum of 20 hours a week of studying starting now and leading up to the June 6th test including weekly practice tests. If need be, I will take it a second time in Sept/Oct. I'm thinking that given my poor performance in undergrad I should probably be aiming to have an LSAT of 165-170, at least, if I hope to get in anywhere.
I am a Caucasian male, so I have zero benefits from a URM standpoint.

My question is: Should I even put myself through the ringer to prepare for the LSAT and attempt to get into law school or is it a lost cause at this point due to my undergrad performance? I would like to practice law in the Philadelphia area and would be applying to Temple, Villanova, Drexel, and Rutgers Camden as my most realistic options, with Temple being my #1 right now. I feel that anything further down the law school rankings than this would just be a waste of time and money (please correct me if I'm wrong). I've also thought about applying to Penn (I know that there is just about a 0% chance of that being successful) to see what happens and Northwestern because I've read that they favor splitters with work experience in their admissions process. My game plan with Northwestern is not so much to go there, but to use it as a bargaining chip when speaking with lower ranked schools in the off chance that I am accepted there. Do I even have a shot at the couple of Philly regionals that I listed given that I am well below there 25th percentile GPAs? Would a strong LSAT give me a good shot at admittance or would I just be making each school $60-$80 richer come application season?

My apologies for the long post and thank you in advance for your assistance!
-Eric

[Nachoo2019]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and am just beginning, or should I say resuming, my quest to go to law school. I am looking for some advice on if this is a journey that I should even begin or if I may just be wasting my time as I have a detrimentally low undergrad GPA. I expect that I will be applying as an extreme splitter, but after doing a few searches on law school numbers am not seeing many applicants with a similar GPA that were applying to schools that I am interested in.

A little about me:
I have a 2.665 undergrad GPA from Rowan University in NJ where I majored in Law & Justice and minored in communication. I graduated in 2012 (I'm a nontraditional). I do not have a great story as to why I did poorly, other than I was just immature and did not have my priorities straight. I worked full time throughout college (40+ hours), cycled competitively (over 20+ hours a week training), and enjoyed my social life entirely too much. All of these things impacted my studies quite negatively.
Before my final year of undergrad I spent my summer interning with a local law office, so I do know what I am getting myself into as far as the day-to-day dealings of a lawyer. The attorney I worked for did a wide variety of work so I was able to see family, criminal, and personal injury cases.
Following graduation I struggled with what I wanted to do with my life and was deathly afraid of the commitment and possible rejection of trying to get into law school.
After graduation I ended up working at a relatively large, privately held, multi-national company on a part time basis. Over the past few years I've worked my way up the corporate ladder at a very quick rate, receiving four promotions. After 5 months in my first management position I was offered a higher level position without inquiring about or applying for it. As of right now I manage approximately $4.5 million in annual revenue, $3 million in annual expenses, and 26 employees in three states. By the time I would be starting law school (Fall 2017) I would have 5.5 years of work experience.
As previously stated, I was immature when I was in undergrad and did not have my priorities straight. Over the course of this past year it is something that I have begun to regret greatly and have been doing more and more research into applying for law school. I believe I can do well on the LSAT as I've always done well on standardized tests and have always liked logical reasoning puzzles. I've only tried a few random questions (10 or so) so far but have gotten them all correct. I'll be taking my first practice test this weekend and am able to commit to a minimum of 20 hours a week of studying starting now and leading up to the June 6th test including weekly practice tests. If need be, I will take it a second time in Sept/Oct. I'm thinking that given my poor performance in undergrad I should probably be aiming to have an LSAT of 165-170, at least, if I hope to get in anywhere.
I am a Caucasian male, so I have zero benefits from a URM standpoint.

My question is: Should I even put myself through the ringer to prepare for the LSAT and attempt to get into law school or is it a lost cause at this point due to my undergrad performance? I would like to practice law in the Philadelphia area and would be applying to Temple, Villanova, Drexel, and Rutgers Camden as my most realistic options, with Temple being my #1 right now. I feel that anything further down the law school rankings than this would just be a waste of time and money (please correct me if I'm wrong). I've also thought about applying to Penn (I know that there is just about a 0% chance of that being successful) to see what happens and Northwestern because I've read that they favor splitters with work experience in their admissions process. My game plan with Northwestern is not so much to go there, but to use it as a bargaining chip when speaking with lower ranked schools in the off chance that I am accepted there. Do I even have a shot at the couple of Philly regionals that I listed given that I am well below there 25th percentile GPAs? Would a strong LSAT give me a good shot at admittance or would I just be making each school $60-$80 richer come application season?

My apologies for the long post and thank you in advance for your assistance!
-Eric

You are absolutely not wasting your time with a 2.66 GPA. If you are able to pull a 165-170 you will be in with a good scholarship to Temple for sure.

[Auxilio]

I think a better question to ask is not if it is worth it to study for the LSAT, but if you truly have a compelling reason to go to law school (especially say Temple, which is decent, but not amazing). It feels like you have a lot of opportunity costs and the outcomes from Temple are not great (although better with strong work experience like you have).

[zot1]

A few things:

1. Are you happy at your job and make a comfortable living? If so, please please consider staying there.

2. You know what one law office's day to day is like. The truth is that being an attorney means a lot of things. If you're set on private sector, offices vary by culture and practice. Please look at the what's your typical day in the legal employment forum so you can see what I mean.

3. The schools you are considering do not give you the best odds at getting a decent legal job. Keep in mind that there are some attorneys who start at 30k/year.

4. You will likely look at fronting some of costs with loans. Ask yourself if taking yourself off the market for three or some years plus getting into debt is something you desire.

5. Why do you want to become an attorney?

[ToffoIsMe]

A few things:

1. Are you happy at your job and make a comfortable living? If so, please please consider staying there.

2. You know what one law office's day to day is like. The truth is that being an attorney means a lot of things. If you're set on private sector, offices vary by culture and practice. Please look at the what's your typical day in the legal employment forum so you can see what I mean.

3. The schools you are considering do not give you the best odds at getting a decent legal job. Keep in mind that there are some attorneys who start at 30k/year.

4. You will likely look at fronting some of costs with loans. Ask yourself if taking yourself off the market for three or some years plus getting into debt is something you desire.

5. Why do you want to become an attorney?

I make a decent living, but am miserable and have been for a long time. I've done my homework and am fully aware that big money law jobs are not as common as the general public thinks and that there is a good chance that I end up making slightly less coming out of law school than I do now. I already have a number in my head for how much I am willing to cover with loans, taking into consideration what the likely outcome is from a salary prospective. If I cannot attend without going over this number then I will be putting it off for a year or two while I build my resume up more and try again.

At the end of the day, I want to become an attorney in order to help people. My plan to do this may be a little bit different than some as I would like to practice a type of law that I will enjoy versus simply going into criminal defense. Real estate and housing rights is an area of strong interest for me, even outside of wanting to be an attorney, and so I would ultimately like to work at a firm that handles a lot of commercial real estate work. I'd also like to get to a point where I can dedicate significant time each year to performing pro bono work for under privileged families to help them acquire new or secure their current housing following personal financial problems such as bankruptcy, delinquent tax issues, etc. I've previously held a real estate license in NJ, am active with Habitat for Humanity now, and have been working towards networking with realtors and real estate investors when I have free time.

[OLitch]

I think law school would be a waste of your time.

There are applicants who are willing to give up their first born child or kill a litter of puppies in exchange for an acceptance letter. with 100 reasons not to go to law school, they will stop at nothing to get their JD. You are willing to stop before you even take the LSAT. If you really want law school, make it happen. Go after it with everything you have. If you don't get in your top choices, then evaluate your situation. You only have 3-6 months of free time that you would be giving up. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the time spent getting a degree.

You would probably be better suited to manage a nonprofit. You could even start your own nonprofit if you think you could develop a donor base and write grants. Find a way to get a job doing what you love. It sound like you don't need a JD to help the community.

[Nagster5]

I think law school would be a waste of your time.

There are applicants who are willing to give up their first born child or kill a litter of puppies in exchange for an acceptance letter. with 100 reasons not to go to law school, they will stop at nothing to get their JD. You are willing to stop before you even take the LSAT. If you really want law school, make it happen. Go after it with everything you have. If you don't get in your top choices, then evaluate your situation. You only have 3-6 months of free time that you would be giving up. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the time spent getting a degree.

You would probably be better suited to manage a nonprofit. You could even start your own nonprofit if you think you could develop a donor base and write grants. Find a way to get a job doing what you love. It sound like you don't need a JD to help the community.

I agree with this. You shouldn't apply because you have better options and no real burning desire based on what you've written. Your GPA doesn't lock you out of anywhere except HYS, but that doesn't mean law school is a good idea.

[jrass]

You're coming in disadvantaged. It's like if a doctor tells a 13-year old kid whose a basketball prodigy he's going to max out at 6 feet. He could be plenty successful but is disadvantaged.

[cbbinnyc]

Have you considered getting an MBA? You would be much more likely to get into a top MBA program where your impressive work credentials will matter and your grades will be much less important. Business schools will care about how much money and how many people you manage, how many promotions you've gotten, etc. Law schools will care comparatively very little. As other posters have said, you can probably get into the schools you mentioned, but it sounds like you have a shot at elite business programs. Just a thought.

[fliptrip]

Have you considered getting an MBA? You would be much more likely to get into a top MBA program where your impressive work credentials will matter and your grades will be much less important. Business schools will care about how much money and how many people you manage, how many promotions you've gotten, etc. Law schools will care comparatively very little. As other posters have said, you can probably get into the schools you mentioned, but it sounds like you have a shot at elite business programs. Just a thought.

What in the world are you basing this on? OP's GPA is too low and in way too soft a major to have much of a chance at any "top" b-school. Thankfully, however, if you want to stay in the business world, OP, you don't need to go to a "top" school. Just the credential itself might be enough to get you a leg up.

[cbbinnyc]

Have you considered getting an MBA? You would be much more likely to get into a top MBA program where your impressive work credentials will matter and your grades will be much less important. Business schools will care about how much money and how many people you manage, how many promotions you've gotten, etc. Law schools will care comparatively very little. As other posters have said, you can probably get into the schools you mentioned, but it sounds like you have a shot at elite business programs. Just a thought.

What in the world are you basing this on? OP's GPA is too low and in way too soft a major to have much of a chance at any "top" b-school. Thankfully, however, if you want to stay in the business world, OP, you don't need to go to a "top" school. Just the credential itself might be enough to get you a leg up.

Fair enough, I may have overstated OP's chances at top B-school programs. But the average GPA at top-10 MBA programs is a 3.5 (it's about 3.7 at Stanford and Harvard). The avg GMAT is around 720 for top programs, which OP can likely exceed if he/she has always done well on standardized tests. Point being, numbers are far less important at B-school. OP's strength is his/her business experience, and B-schools weigh upward mobility (increased salary/responsibility/etc) very heavily in their decision. So I don't think it's inaccurate to say OP has a "shot" at a top business program, given the info provided. At any rate, OP can likely get into a significantly better MBA program than JD program.