Is there an undergrad GPA buffer for coming from a difficult undergrad? Forum

[GreatBraffsby]

^^ I spent a year living in Swarthmore, PA and I swear it looks like a little village you find inside a snow globe.

Basically, Totes, here's a little list, courtesy of flip, of 6 liberal arts colleges you should know:

Williams (MA)
Amherst (MA)
Swarthmore (PA)
Pomona (CA)
Carleton (MN)
Wellesley (MA)-Hillary C.'s alma mater.

And fear not, in law school, you'll undoubtedly encounter folks from other LACs far and wide. You might meet someone from Claremont-McKenna (CA), Agnes Scott (GA), Grinnell (IA), Hamilton (NY), Vassar (NY), or Wesleyan (CT). Those aren't important enough to remember, however. Neither are Bryn Mawr (PA), Haverford (PA), Mt. Holyoke (MA), or Smith (MA). Don't let anyone make you feel bad for not knowing those.

No mention of Carleton, Macalester, Middlebury, Oberlin, Bowdoin, Davidson, Colby, Colgate, Bates, Kenyon, Colorado College, Whitman, Skidmore, etc? Those are all excellent colleges and it's pretty shocking to me that they wouldn't be recognized among people who somewhat recently applied to undergrad. Maybe it's a regional thing or depends on the type of high school/college someone attended before looking at law schools, but LACs are popular and competitive in today's college admissions process.

[A. Nony Mouse]

He did mention Carleton. I also don't think that was the world's most serious post.

[JFO1833]

I think there is some relevance to undergrad when evaluating quality of GPAs. While schools care about maintain their median GPA, between applicants on either side of the median the GPA doesn't affect USN. For example, if a school has a median GPA of 3.9 and two applicants with the same LSAT one who has a 3.8 from Princeton and the other who has a 3.85 from a lower tier school, they can take the Princeton person without any further affect on the median.

Also the prestige of the undergrad might be more helpful at Y, S or B where admissions are a little more particular and they pay (relatively speaking) more attention to soft factors than, at say, H.

[fliptrip]

^^ I spent a year living in Swarthmore, PA and I swear it looks like a little village you find inside a snow globe.

Basically, Totes, here's a little list, courtesy of flip, of 6 liberal arts colleges you should know:

Williams (MA)
Amherst (MA)
Swarthmore (PA)
Pomona (CA)
Carleton (MN)
Wellesley (MA)-Hillary C.'s alma mater.

And fear not, in law school, you'll undoubtedly encounter folks from other LACs far and wide. You might meet someone from Claremont-McKenna (CA), Agnes Scott (GA), Grinnell (IA), Hamilton (NY), Vassar (NY), or Wesleyan (CT). Those aren't important enough to remember, however. Neither are Bryn Mawr (PA), Haverford (PA), Mt. Holyoke (MA), or Smith (MA). Don't let anyone make you feel bad for not knowing those.

No mention of Carleton, Macalester, Middlebury, Oberlin, Bowdoin, Davidson, Colby, Colgate, Bates, Kenyon, Colorado College, Whitman, Skidmore, etc? Those are all excellent colleges and it's pretty shocking to me that they wouldn't be recognized among people who somewhat recently applied to undergrad. Maybe it's a regional thing or depends on the type of high school/college someone attended before looking at law schools, but LACs are popular and competitive in today's college admissions process.

LOL. I'd assumed that anyone could see that a helpful list produced by someone called flip could not possibly be of any real merit. Anyway, because I have not one, but two degrees from "elite" schools, I most certainly am aware of each of the additional schools you mentioned, though I'd take issue with anyone calling Bates a good college. That's where we shunted the dumb kids at the private school I taught at. Oh, "Greg is unmotivated and untalented? Bates for him!" Also, don't assume so damn much. I am old af.

[BigZuck]

I went to a good school and have LITERALLY never heard of Carleton, Skidmore, and Macalester

Harvard is prestigious. Most of these are rando small schools named after dead white guys or towns (which are also named after dead white guys) that nobody has ever heard of (other than the old white guys who went to them). Not prestigious.

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Just FYI

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[A. Nony Mouse]

You're not elite enough to know true prestige, Zuck.

[BigZuck]

Next thing you know someone is going to come along and say that that Poo Science place in France is A) Real and B) Prestigious

Just lol

[somethingElse]

Well to be fair, Skidmore was mentioned on ABC Family's Pretty Little Liars.

[fliptrip]

LOL @ Prestige. I wonder if we will get another multi-page debate with people giving their lists of the schools with the most prestige in descending order.

[wiz]

Well to be fair, Skidmore was mentioned on ABC Family's Pretty Little Liars.

Haha, that's how I learned what a Skidmore is!

[Hikikomorist]

I went to a good school and have LITERALLY never heard of Carleton, Skidmore, and Macalester

Harvard is prestigious. Most of these are rando small schools named after dead white guys or towns (which are also named after dead white guys) that nobody has ever heard of (other than the old white guys who went to them). Not prestigious.

N
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T

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Just FYI

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Carleton is at least mildly prestigious.

[BigZuck]

I went to a good school and have LITERALLY never heard of Carleton, Skidmore, and Macalester

Harvard is prestigious. Most of these are rando small schools named after dead white guys or towns (which are also named after dead white guys) that nobody has ever heard of (other than the old white guys who went to them). Not prestigious.

N
O
T

P
R
E
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T
I
G
I
O
U
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Just FYI

F
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Carleton is at least mildly prestigious.

If we're talking the Fresh Prince character, sure

[fliptrip]

I went to a good school and have LITERALLY never heard of Carleton, Skidmore, and Macalester

Harvard is prestigious. Most of these are rando small schools named after dead white guys or towns (which are also named after dead white guys) that nobody has ever heard of (other than the old white guys who went to them). Not prestigious.

N
O
T

P
R
E
S
T
I
G
I
O
U
S

Just FYI

F
Y
I

Carleton is at least mildly prestigious.

If we're talking the Fresh Prince character, sure

He couldn't get into Princeton, so he never knew real prestige and his life was over at that point.

[nerd1]

You are talking about Princeton. Getting high college grades at Harvard or Yale is really easy. That's from my own experience.
But even for Princeton, I really don't think non-STEM courses could be that difficult.

Fact: Law schools have data from different universities and they know that certain majors or colleges are tougher than others, and adjust their reviews accordingly.

[somethingElse]

You are talking about Princeton. Getting high college grades at Harvard or Yale is really easy. That's from my own experience.
But even for Princeton, I really don't think non-STEM courses could be that difficult.

Fact: Law schools have data from different universities and they know that certain majors or colleges are tougher than others, and adjust their reviews accordingly.

ADD COMM REVEALED

[BigZuck]

Getting high college grades at Harvard or Yale is really easy. That's from my own experience.

Nice

[jbagelboy]

It wouldn't surprise me that I was. I was enginerd all the way, so didn't pay much attention to the LA schools.

They're trolling you. Those are made up schools. Could you imagine a place called "Swarthmore" actually existing? "Hey, where did you go to school?" "Actually, I spent the best years of my life at Swarthmore, it's a very prestigious place."

Lol, nobody in their right mind would name a college "Swarthmore." Harry Potter villain, yes. Prestigious place that actually exists, no.

jonathan franzen went to swarthmore. and I came close to doing so as well.

[BigZuck]

jonathan franzen went to swarthmore. and I came close to doing so as well.

(is Neville Longbottom)

[03152016]

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[Nekrowizard]

Swarthmore is even less prestigious than Penn State, and there's nothing more pathetic than some Penn grad reminding you that it's an Ivy.

[03152016]

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[abl]

IMO depending on school/major it could be a very very minor consideration. For example, if you are below median but above 25% it may bump you to the median equivalent. Typically it wont make a huge difference later in the cycle, but earlier it may since schools are more lenient I hear.

I went to a top 5 engineering program (ranked 2nd in my field behind MIT) and ended up with a 3.65. The average GPA in my major was below a 3.0. In my school getting Honors was a 3.2, High Honors a 3.4 and Highest Honor was a 3.55 (I had a 3.53 degree GPA argh).


I didnt underperform my numbers, but I wouldnt say I overperformed much either. LSAT is unfortunately a huge factor. If I had 2 points higher on my LSAT I would have had a much much better cycle.

Is your school a top 5 school overall (eg Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, Columbia, etc) or a top school in the specific area in which you majored? Adcoms do some accounting for hard and top schools, but I don't get the sense that they do that on a departmental level. For example, Nebraska might be the #2 chemical engineering program in the country by some measures (no idea if that's true) and be overall respectable, but law schools aren't going to account for that.

Also, Zuch, you not having heard of a place doesn't make it not prestigious. More to the point, you not having heard of a place doesn't make it non-advantageous for law school admissions purposes. Carleton is undoubtedly less well known than some place like Nebraska, and it is undoubtedly a better place to be applying with a 3.7.

Finally, I'm skeptical about for how many undergrads law schools will make some sort of grade adjustment. Princeton, Caltech, Williams, sure. Skidmore is a great school but I suspect you're not going to get bonus points for going there.

[03152016]

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[BigZuck]

IMO depending on school/major it could be a very very minor consideration. For example, if you are below median but above 25% it may bump you to the median equivalent. Typically it wont make a huge difference later in the cycle, but earlier it may since schools are more lenient I hear.

I went to a top 5 engineering program (ranked 2nd in my field behind MIT) and ended up with a 3.65. The average GPA in my major was below a 3.0. In my school getting Honors was a 3.2, High Honors a 3.4 and Highest Honor was a 3.55 (I had a 3.53 degree GPA argh).


I didnt underperform my numbers, but I wouldnt say I overperformed much either. LSAT is unfortunately a huge factor. If I had 2 points higher on my LSAT I would have had a much much better cycle.

Is your school a top 5 school overall (eg Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, Columbia, etc) or a top school in the specific area in which you majored? Adcoms do some accounting for hard and top schools, but I don't get the sense that they do that on a departmental level. For example, Nebraska might be the #2 chemical engineering program in the country by some measures (no idea if that's true) and be overall respectable, but law schools aren't going to account for that.

Also, Zuch, you not having heard of a place doesn't make it not prestigious. More to the point, you not having heard of a place doesn't make it non-advantageous for law school admissions purposes. Carleton is undoubtedly less well known than some place like Nebraska, and it is undoubtedly a better place to be applying with a 3.7.

Finally, I'm skeptical about for how many undergrads law schools will make some sort of grade adjustment. Princeton, Caltech, Williams, sure. Skidmore is a great school but I suspect you're not going to get bonus points for going there.

I don't want to speak for Zuch but I can confirm that most of these schools are just whatever rando schools. And yeah they aren't going to give people admissions boosts because that's not how law school admissions works.

[03152016]

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