Currently PhD Student. Am I a reasonable candidate for law school? Forum

[willitbefun]

Hi all,
I am a PhD student (mid-stage) in a life sciences discipline. Experiences during my PhD has led me to develop an interest in intellectual property/patents, and I have been considering applying to law school (i.e. *NOT* finish my PhD) so I can directly pursue this career path.

I would really appreciate advice on 1) what I should focus most on in order to improve my chances, and 2) whether you think I could realistically get into ~top 10 law schools.

In particular, I am concerned that my background is in biology and that might not be typical for law school applicants. Also, I am worried that the fact that I have worked in academic research mostly and will be "dropping out" of the Ph.D. program to attend law school may reflect badly. I do have a pretty good academic background, so perhaps this could "make up" for the abovementioned "negative" points?

Here are some things that may be relevant -
- My undergrad GPA is 4.0. My bachelors degree is in Biology and it is from a state university.
- I have an M.A. degree from an Ivy League university. I am currently enrolled in the same university for my Ph.D. program in a biology-related field.
- I am an international student
- I suspect that none of the faculty in my current institution would support me quitting the program to pursue law, so all my recommendation letters will have to come from undergrad professors.
- I have not taken the LSAT... I plan to take it in June 2016 and apply during Fall 2016.

Any other comments and advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you!

[mcmand]

...

[banjo]

The two most important things to do:

(1) Get the highest score possible on the LSAT.

(2) Come up with a compelling narrative for your why you're leaving your PhD and why law school is the right move.

[IPmaybe]

You may want to try working as a scientific analyst/patent agent before going to law school if you are interested in pursuing patent prosecution. Normally PhDs are preferred for the biosciences for prosecution positions, so I'm not sure about how a M.A. Is viewed.

[PantoroB]

I am currently making this exact transition. I am abandoning an Ivy PhD, though I no longer am intent on just IP law. I will let you know how this cycle goes, so far no information. I would just say that as mentioned before a compelling narrative is a great thing to come up with. I never thought my advisers would support me leaving science, but once I told them my story they were on my side and I think having their letters will help me. But i mean you have a 4.0 GPA, just get a great LSAT score and you'll do great.

[Tls2016]

Just FYI
International students can't get loans so you would have to finance law school yourself. I'm assuming you have some kind of tuition waiver plus stipend for your PhD research.

You may already be very familiar with the student loan process, but I wanted to mention it as law school is very expensive. I believe Harvard has an internal loan program for international students, but I'm not sure.

Also, getting a job for international students can be challenging because of visa issues, the limit on H1B visas and the limited number of firms willing to sponsor you. I don't know how it works for IP but you should find out.

Your main goal should be to get as high an LSAT as possible. Your undergrad major won't hurt you, except I also had a biology undergrad degree and I felt a little behind students who had taken classes where they read cases, etc. However, as law school is graded on one final exam, I had time to catch up to them.

You should seriously research law careers and maybe look for something else relating to biology. I have read here that just an undergrad degree in a life science isn't enough for IP, that you need a PhD. You should read here and also post more questions. Don't go to law school until you understand the job. It's very different than science. Law may not be the career you want and that is an expensive mistake to make.

[Alive97]

For law school admissions, Factors other than LSAT and GPA pale in importance compared to those 2. If you have a high LSAT, in combination with your gpa, it will in all likelihood completely negate Those "negative" aspects of your application (and that's not an exaggeration). They may not even be negative aspects to begin with, for all I know. With high numbers you could also get a great scholarship, which would mitigate the cost.

In short, the LSAT is paramount for you.

[willitbefun]

Do you want to be a patent prosecutor? You don't need a JD to take and pass the patent bar. That will save you some money. If you want to do a wider variety of things that require you to be licensed by a state bar (i.e., practicing law other than prosecuting patents), then yes, go to law school. You have all the qualifications and would probably be very attractive to firms specializing in patents and IP.

ADDENDUM: I agree with everything posted below, except to not get too caught up in everything on TLS. It is a very single-minded community, which has its flaws and blind-spots. There are a lot of resources on the web available to you in addition to everyone here to help you figure out how to make this work for you!

I've done some research on the patent bar, and my understanding is that since I am not a US citizen I can't take the bar unless I am already employed at a company with a position that directly involves patents. So unfortunately that is not an option... Finances are definitely a concern for me, so I will keep exploring the options for keeping the costs "reasonable".

Thanks for your comment!

[willitbefun]

You may want to try working as a scientific analyst/patent agent before going to law school if you are interested in pursuing patent prosecution. Normally PhDs are preferred for the biosciences for prosecution positions, so I'm not sure about how a M.A. Is viewed.

It is my understanding, too, that for life sciences, a PhD is the minimum for these scientific analyst/advisor positions. It looks like some firms do hire PhD grads as advisors and then potentially sponsor them to go to law school - which may also be a good track for me to take. However, finishing my Ph.D. will take another couple years, so I have that time period to weigh in as a factor as well.

[willitbefun]

I am currently making this exact transition. I am abandoning an Ivy PhD, though I no longer am intent on just IP law. I will let you know how this cycle goes, so far no information. I would just say that as mentioned before a compelling narrative is a great thing to come up with. I never thought my advisers would support me leaving science, but once I told them my story they were on my side and I think having their letters will help me. But i mean you have a 4.0 GPA, just get a great LSAT score and you'll do great.

It's nice to hear from someone in a similar position. It's interesting to me that your advisors were supportive; I guess I have never talked to them about my intentions to leave science, so I really can't judge how they would react. It would be great to hear about how things go for you. Good luck!

[willitbefun]

Just FYI
International students can't get loans so you would have to finance law school yourself. I'm assuming you have some kind of tuition waiver plus stipend for your PhD research.

You may already be very familiar with the student loan process, but I wanted to mention it as law school is very expensive. I believe Harvard has an internal loan program for international students, but I'm not sure.

Also, getting a job for international students can be challenging because of visa issues, the limit on H1B visas and the limited number of firms willing to sponsor you. I don't know how it works for IP but you should find out.

Your main goal should be to get as high an LSAT as possible. Your undergrad major won't hurt you, except I also had a biology undergrad degree and I felt a little behind students who had taken classes where they read cases, etc. However, as law school is graded on one final exam, I had time to catch up to them.

You should seriously research law careers and maybe look for something else relating to biology. I have read here that just an undergrad degree in a life science isn't enough for IP, that you need a PhD. You should read here and also post more questions. Don't go to law school until you understand the job. It's very different than science. Law may not be the career you want and that is an expensive mistake to make.

Very good point. I've been reading some posts on this forum about the costs of law school, debts accumulated, and how long it takes for people to earn it back. It is possible that my family can provide some support, but that would really be the last resort. You are right that I pay no tuition and receive a stipend for my PhD, and I certainly shouldn't be taking that for granted.

About researching law careers, I will definitely do so. I'm in the midst of finding people in my network (school, friends etc) that work in IP, tech transfer, and the likes, and I plan to set up some informational interviews to further assess whether law is a good fit for me.

Thanks for your perspective!