Legal Market Getting Worse Forum

[DrRighteous]

Anecdotes can often be more true to life and helpful than a statistical analysis.

[lymenheimer]

I'm not following the "most won't make partner=failure" argument. As far as compensation and future prospects go, isn't biglaw a decent place to start? I mean, $160k to start, yea to pay off debt and only last 4-5 years (on average?), but after that, the options seem decent. I haven't yet seen an anecdote of a biglaw washout with no options after they leave. Maybe that's embarrassment, but maybe some people don't actually want to become partner. They want to do time in biglaw and then go do something else. It seems like you are projecting your desires onto other people here. Your posts all read as if you washed out of LS after dreams of becoming harvey specter, didn't get biglaw, got lucky enough to make it doing solo work, and are now telling other people who want to do things other than biglaw partnership that they will never make biglaw partnership and that solo work is not profitable. Maybe I'm missing something, but that's the vibe that I'm getting from this.

[Cogburn87]

I haven't yet seen an anecdote of a biglaw washout with no options after they leave.

lol

[lymenheimer]

I haven't yet seen an anecdote of a biglaw washout with no options after they leave.

lol

edit: from my time here...as a 0L. But since this is apparently the case:

Anecdotes can often be more true to life and helpful than a statistical analysis.

show me one and I'll retract my statement.

[lacrossebrother]

I don't get why you don't tell us more about your practice. You obviously don't practice "all practice areas." Also,

Yeah, and there are fewer DEFENSE lawyer jobs as well moron, because there are fewer Plaintiff's lawyers.

is very stupid.
Watch this.
Year 0:
2 plaintiffs lawyers: {P1, P2}
2 Defense lawyers: {D1, D2}

P1 sues; D1 defends. P2 sues; D2 Defends.

Year 1:
1 plaintiffs lawyers: {P1}
2 Defense lawyers: {D1, D2}

P1 sues; D1 defends
P1 sues; D2 defends.

---
Have you considered the possibility that it's you who is the problem, not the industry? Or at the least, have you considered that it could be both? What have you done to adapt?

[Picard777]

I'm not going to waste more time on here arguing with 20 somethings who have never met the real world and who will fall hard when their silly expectations are not met. For the humble ones that want real world advice, private me.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I haven't yet seen an anecdote of a biglaw washout with no options after they leave.

lol

edit: from my time here...as a 0L. But since this is apparently the case:

Anecdotes can often be more true to life and helpful than a statistical analysis.

show me one and I'll retract my statement.

I think the point is that such people aren't that likely to show up here and talk about what happened to them. Paul Campos had an account of such a guy in his blog, I know (yet more anecdotes).

I would imagine the OP is right in a lot of ways; there are a lot more forms/assistance available for your average individual litigant to forge ahead on their own on a lot of the garden variety stuff out there. It sounds like the OP went solo pretty much from the start, and I don't know how far you can generalize from that experience to every other law job out there. But that doesn't make him wrong about his own experience. (Not sure why he thought people would hail him as a prophet, though.)

[lymenheimer]

I think the point is that such people aren't that likely to show up here and talk about what happened to them. Paul Campos had an account of such a guy in his blog, I know (yet more anecdotes).

I would imagine the OP is right in a lot of ways; there are a lot more forms/assistance available for your average individual litigant to forge ahead on their own on a lot of the garden variety stuff out there. It sounds like the OP went solo pretty much from the start, and I don't know how far you can generalize from that experience to every other law job out there. But that doesn't make him wrong about his own experience. (Not sure why he thought people would hail him as a prophet, though.)

That's why I said "maybe that's embarrassment". I realize that not being successful isn't the easiest thing to be able to share. I just wasn't sure why OP was getting hung up on the whole partner-track idea. I'm getting the same feeling as you about his work history, so that's why I wanted to know where the dots were connecting.

[pleadthafif]

Post removed...

[Tanicius]

I made it, but maybe not for much longer if things keep getting worse. Most of my colleagues did not make it. I made it because I worked and did very little else in my life. Only one real vacation in ten years, working 16 hour days and wasting money on employees to collect from the deadbeats.. Some advice to capitol idea- big law and T14 is not a true hedge against the market as most will not make partner there. Most defense side lawyers make pennies for salaries. The elites love what is happening, it preserves their hoards of wealth from litigation. Seriously injured people need economic redress and they are not getting it.

Anecdotes can often be more true to life and helpful than a statistical analysis.

There is no way you worked 16 hour days if you're starving for cases. I handle 3-400 cases a year and work 9-5, maybe a few weekends here and there when I'm a prepping something for trial.

[zhenders]

The real Captain Picard would never generalize like this. You're an imposter

[Troianii]

No one wants or needs lawyers in their minds anymore. You won't get a job. All of you who go to T14 will have only a 10% chance of actually making partner at Biglaw. After that, you will be thrown to the wolves like everyone else. Not a great way to restart your career in your 30s.

Except all the data to the contrary... ffs, grads from schools ranked in the 30s (BC) have over a 30% chance at big law based on employment figures.

[Troianii]

The real Captain Picard would never generalize like this. You're an imposter

+1

[Cogburn87]

show me one and I'll retract my statement.

I know numerous people who left biglaw in an undesirable manner. a few went through periods of long-term unemployment. many are still underemployed.

this website is mostly non-lawyers, so a lot of the talk here regarding exit options is 2L's with SAs in hand confidently parroting each other about going inhouse "after a couple years or so." they don't yet know about the burned out 5th year lit associate who desperately wants a different job but simply can't find anything decent and is thinking about just quitting with nothing lined up

[lymenheimer]

show me one and I'll retract my statement.

I know numerous people who left biglaw in an undesirable manner. a few went through periods of long-term unemployment. many are still underemployed.

this website is mostly non-lawyers, so a lot of the talk here regarding exit options is 2L's with SAs in hand confidently parroting each other about going inhouse "after a couple years or so." they don't yet know about the burned out 5th year lit associate who desperately wants a different job but simply can't find anything decent and is thinking about just quitting with nothing lined up

Noted.

[lacrossebrother]

I'm not going to waste more time on here arguing with 20 somethings who have never met the real world and who will fall hard when their silly expectations are not met. For the humble ones that want real world advice, private me.

definitely not a megalomaniac in presuming everyone who challenges you has zero "real world experience."

[homestyle28]

How many times have you been disbarred? If the answer is <0 you're clearly not trying hard enough.

[Traynor Brah]

Best solution for current students: drop out, or suicide?

[jingosaur]

Best solution for current students: drop out, or suicide?

I think TCR is to try to have a legal career, fail, and then angrily post about it on internet forums.

[lymenheimer]

FTR, I pmed and have gotten no response. So don't bother if you actually wanna talk to the dude.

[Stardust84]

I'm not going to waste more time on here arguing with 20 somethings who have never met the real world and who will fall hard when their silly expectations are not met. For the humble ones that want real world advice, private me.

Your hubris and constant reliance on blanket statements and your personal anecdotes of failure are tiresome. I'm 31 years old and the first person to respond to your post. I've grinded out a modest living in the real world in a non law job and started a business and know what things are like. For people looking to enter into this profession there certainly needs to a more thorough analysis of realistic prospects on their parts. However, for some people, their aptitudes, skills and/or life situations mean that a career in law is an ideal means for achieving their goals. Society needs lawyers and judges etc. It just didn't need you to be one.

[03152016]

y is this in admissions
it doesn't sound like "(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )"
op is about legal employment
if it was posted there, you'd get more experienced practitioners to respond
which apparently is what op wants, and regardless would make the thread more constructive

[General_Tso]

Market for laterals seems to be doing just fine. Lots of my former coworkers at an ID mill have moved up to better/more reputable jobs in the last 12 months.