chance me for top schools/advice needed Forum

blake_alexander · Post by **blake_alexander** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:17 am

Hello all, let me preface this by saying excuse me for my ignorance on the topic of law school admissions. But I am here to find out how you all would handle my situation, and I appreciate input for my questions. I graduated in May from a northeast state university; I was a pre-med and took all of the pre-reqs for medical school i.e. ochem, physics, bio, anatomy, etc. I only applied to my state school (literally) due to lack of money and just complete ignorance on my part. It was my plan to attend medical school. However, I am now realizing this isnt what I want. I came into undergrad having no clue what I wanted to do, and switched to pre-med at the urging of a family member--they pointed to "stable, relatively high income, always have a job" etc. I, growing up as a poor kid, and raised by a single mother with bipolar thought it sounded good to me. I declared pre-med, got involved in tons of ec's, even research at a northeast ivy with glowing LOR from the lab PI who has huge pull at this school. I graduated in May with a 3.83 cumulative GPA. I worked hard for this GPA, granted it isnt the 3.95+ that seems to be everywhere on this site, but the classes were tough with averages frequently in the 50's -60's and you have to get A's basically for med school. That was the mantra anyways. Also, I am not someone who just studies quick and gets it; I work hard to get grades. Anyways, here I am after four years realizing I dont want med school. Law seems so inherently interesting to me, all the research that goes into a case, trial law seems thrilling, and I just love reading about politics for some weird reason. I am always talking politics with people/friends and noticed wtf I was only interested in medicine cause it was a stable guaranteed high income essentially.Yes, of course I shadowed and I did like it, but some parts I cant handle. This is kind of embarrassing, but I have a really bad gag reflex and one time when I was shadowing a man came in covered in feces and was thought to have had a stroke, and just the smell in the room almost made me vomit, and I had to exit. The doctor basically was blown away when I told him if I didnt leave I would have thrown up. This made me wonder if I could do this work. Also all the doctors seem so negative, they complain about what they do, and are terribly bitter about the future outlook of medicine in general with the affordable care act etc.

I would be lying if I said I hadn't thought of law school in the past, but my family member who is essentially my mentor shot it down pointing at the hordes of recent law grads with no jobs or working for absurdly low wages. I now realize this isnt always the case, and if one can get into a top program the outlook is much different. Is this true in your experience? The thought of taking on 150k in loans and not getting a job is something I am not okay with. I have not even studied for the LSAT, but it is something I am looking into now. Would you guys recommend a class or self study? Of course I would refer to self study as I would save a chunk of $$, but I understand if the classes are a big advantage. I have a strong preference to the northeast for school, and would like to stay here if possible. I guess schools I am interested in include columbia, NYU, BU, DC schools, any philly schools? Also any other solid schools in NYC or boston you guys recommend? What LSAT should I shoot for to qualify me for a strong school in these cities? Have you heard of anyone getting $$ off at schools for financial need, or academic excellence? I feel my life story is very unique, and a compelling one. Also is my GPA going to hurt me at any schools? I realize I am quite green in this process guys, and I appreciate your patience. Thank you in advance for any input you can give me.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:26 am

For now I recommend poking around this site and reading through various threads in the Choosing a Law School and Ask a Law Student forum. Also check out www.lawschooltransparency.com for information on school job placement and www.mylsn.info for info on what different GPA/LSAT combos will do for admissions and scholarship chances at different schools.

There's no one size fits all answer, the school you should go to depends on career/geographic goals and an acceptable cost of attendance. The schools ranked in the Top 14 by U.S. News are generally considered elite and have the best job placement. After that US News rankings are less helpful and I would lean on law school transparency to see how schools place into different types of jobs. Schools like BU/BC can be great for some people, and even less well regarded schools like, say, Maine might be fine depending on career goals and cost of attendance. It really all depends.

tvu · Post by **tvu** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:03 am

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blake_alexander · Post by **blake_alexander** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:32 pm

tvu wrote:
blake_alexander wrote:Hello all, let me preface this by saying excuse me for my ignorance on the topic of law school admissions. But I am here to find out how you all would handle my situation, and I appreciate input for my questions. I graduated in May from a northeast state university; I was a pre-med and took all of the pre-reqs for medical school i.e. ochem, physics, bio, anatomy, etc. I only applied to my state school (literally) due to lack of money and just complete ignorance on my part. It was my plan to attend medical school. However, I am now realizing this isnt what I want. I came into undergrad having no clue what I wanted to do, and switched to pre-med at the urging of a family member--they pointed to "stable, relatively high income, always have a job" etc. I, growing up as a poor kid, and raised by a single mother with bipolar thought it sounded good to me. I declared pre-med, got involved in tons of ec's, even research at a northeast ivy with glowing LOR from the lab PI who has huge pull at this school. I graduated in May with a 3.83 cumulative GPA. I worked hard for this GPA, granted it isnt the 3.95+ that seems to be everywhere on this site, but the classes were tough with averages frequently in the 50's -60's and you have to get A's basically for med school. That was the mantra anyways. Also, I am not someone who just studies quick and gets it; I work hard to get grades. Anyways, here I am after four years realizing I dont want med school. Law seems so inherently interesting to me, all the research that goes into a case, trial law seems thrilling, and I just love reading about politics for some weird reason. I am always talking politics with people/friends and noticed wtf I was only interested in medicine cause it was a stable guaranteed high income essentially.Yes, of course I shadowed and I did like it, but some parts I cant handle. This is kind of embarrassing, but I have a really bad gag reflex and one time when I was shadowing a man came in covered in feces and was thought to have had a stroke, and just the smell in the room almost made me vomit, and I had to exit. The doctor basically was blown away when I told him if I didnt leave I would have thrown up. This made me wonder if I could do this work. Also all the doctors seem so negative, they complain about what they do, and are terribly bitter about the future outlook of medicine in general with the affordable care act etc.

I would be lying if I said I hadn't thought of law school in the past, but my family member who is essentially my mentor shot it down pointing at the hordes of recent law grads with no jobs or working for absurdly low wages. I now realize this isnt always the case, and if one can get into a top program the outlook is much different. Is this true in your experience? The thought of taking on 150k in loans and not getting a job is something I am not okay with. I have not even studied for the LSAT, but it is something I am looking into now. Would you guys recommend a class or self study? Of course I would refer to self study as I would save a chunk of $$, but I understand if the classes are a big advantage. I have a strong preference to the northeast for school, and would like to stay here if possible. I guess schools I am interested in include columbia, NYU, BU, DC schools, any philly schools? Also any other solid schools in NYC or boston you guys recommend? What LSAT should I shoot for to qualify me for a strong school in these cities? Have you heard of anyone getting $$ off at schools for financial need, or academic excellence? I feel my life story is very unique, and a compelling one. Also is my GPA going to hurt me at any schools? I realize I am quite green in this process guys, and I appreciate your patience. Thank you in advance for any input you can give me.

You have a strong GPA, so that's a big advantage.

For the LSATs I'm willing to bet most people on here would say self-study. It's a lot better, you can study when you have the time and work on your weaknesses individually. So first thing you need on the LSAT is to take a cold diagnostic test. Buy a preptest (past LSAT test) from Amazon or the LSAC website, sit down, take it timed and then grade it. Afterwards look at your score and each section and see what you need to work on most. Tipically Logic Games and Logical Reasoning are the easiest to improve, Reading Comprehension is pretty difficult. Now for books (this won't be cheap) I would recommend to start with the logic game bibles, then move on the LSAT trainer and finish with the Manhattan Prep RC, LR, LG books. While you're studying with these drill (take small chunks of the real preptest timed on the sections you're weakest at). Then towards the end of your practice take about the last 20+ preptest full (that means including the four sections plus an experimental section). After you take the test do a blind review (this means look back at the questions you think you missed and change them if you need to, really study the method in which you are arriving at your answers). Then grade the original and the BR, keep doing this until you've got it down. Don't rush your preparation, it will probably take anywhere from 2-6 months, depending on your diagnostic, how much time you have to study and how well you can grasp the tricks. Also don't rush the LSAT (i.e don't sign up for the test until you are scoring on the LSATs where you want to be, ultimately it's best if you only have to take it once, but it's not terrible if you have to retake it.) There is plenty of other great information/tips/tricks in the LSAT forums: Month-Year Study Group (example December 2015 Study Group), where people can also help you on the specifics.

As for your score, for BU, BC and George Washington something above a 165 would assure you a spot. Now for Georgetown, NYU, Columbia, UPenn you probably need somewhere above a 170, to be sure you will get in. You have a really strong GPA in a difficult undergrad program, so that will help. (Also a great LSAT can get you a good scholarship or even a full-ride so work on that, also look into ED programs that offer full tuition if you're interested in that. Of course schools also have need-based aid through FAFSA, but idk how much money you'd get.)

Also schools are really interested in work experience, so if you can get some of that before you apply, then great.
Also if are you an URM, that would also give you a slight advantage, hope this helps!

Thank you for your input! In your experience is the LSAT an exam you can study for? I.e. if you start out at a 150 diagnostic for example, are you essentially no way in hell going to get to 170 regardless of prep? I havent taken a diagnostic yet, but I am curious. Some people have told me the LSAT is all about innate ability, which I hope isnt the case--not that I am an idiot, but I am not a 150 IQ either. I guess I am hoping to hear you can get out of this exam what you put into it. Thanks!

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:41 pm

The LSAT is probably about as learnable as a standardized test can be. You definitely can go from 150-170 and it's not just about natural ability. I'm sure some people have a ceiling and huge jumps aren't necessarily the norm but this forum is littered with stories of low diagnostics to high scores on the real thing.

Again, I really encourage you to read around this site, there's tons of great info and your questions should be answered relatively quickly just by reading.

emkay625 · Post by **emkay625** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:42 pm

The people who told you the LSAT is all about talent and you can't study for it don't know what they're talking about.

No matter where you start, 4-5 months of intense study (think 4 hours of studying 4 days a week) will let you substantially increase your score. It's impossible to say how much. I know people who increased their score by 20+ points, but I also know people who only increased it by 6 or 7. There's no real way to know. But yes you can and should study.

You have a fantastic GPA. An LSAT score of 165 or above will open up good options for you, and an LSAT score of 168+ will open up great options for you, and an LSAT score of 170+ will open up fantastic options for you.

tvu · Post by **tvu** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:44 pm

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jnwa · Post by **jnwa** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:47 pm

blake_alexander wrote: Thank you for your input! In your experience is the LSAT an exam you can study for? I.e. if you start out at a 150 diagnostic for example, are you essentially no way in hell going to get to 170 regardless of prep? I havent taken a diagnostic yet, but I am curious. Some people have told me the LSAT is all about innate ability, which I hope isnt the case--not that I am an idiot, but I am not a 150 IQ either. I guess I am hoping to hear you can get out of this exam what you put into it. Thanks!

My diagnostic was a 150 in May i scored a 173 in October. I studied basically everyday but i also worked full time till september and went to school full time from september till october so its not like i was putting in crazy hours everyday. Its learnable...get the LSAT trainer, cambridge drill packets for Logic games and reasoning, Powerscore logic games bible and get all the preptests and youll be good. i wouldnt say anyone can get into the 170s but i think if you study properly anyone can get into the 160s. You get out of this exam what you put into it.