HELP! Should I drop Orgo?! Panicked! Forum

[Formerpremed]

Hi everyone. I posted awhile back about my indecision to take physics or not given that my heart has pretty much left medicine and I really would like to get into the T14... I ended up taking taking the class anyway and I got an A in physics lecture and an A- in the lab unfortunately. However, class has started and I'm already in Organic Chem.... I've realized too late in the game that this class is super hard and I honestly don't even know if I can manage a B in this class (I'm also taking 2 other hard statistics courses that I am required to take for my major so that's another reason why I believe I could very well bomb Orgo). I am VERY concerned since my first year at a different university my GPA was 3.30 and my GPA at this university now is 3.94.... so I know LSAC will be averaging my grades. The reason why I enrolled in Organic Chem is that I would consider the medical field such as Pharmacy which does not require a long residency as a back up plan for me in case I cannot do well on the LSAT thus ruining my chances at T14 with my combined GPA and possible low LSAT score. I am panicked as I don't know what to do at all at this point.... If I stay in Orgo and somehow manage a B- or B is it worth it to stay or should I drop it now? With this class, people say it will be impossible to get an A and I know that I have a slim shot at T14 already because of my terrible first year in college. Again, the only reason compelling me to stick out the Orgo class is in case I cannot score high enough on LSAT to be able to go somewhere in T14 (I've talked with many friends that have taken LSAT had great excellent GPAs like 4.0s and have had to go to DePaul and Loyola Law and such because the LSAT was brutal for them... EX: In one of my classes, a person graduated with a 3.9 GPA herself, came from one of those law schools, and she was so unhappy with her job prospects that she came to my college as a post-bac to go to veterinary school. ) Ultimately, my dream law school is UChicago because I would love to remain in Chicago area but my pre-law adviser (who, no offense, has not been very helpful to me) that I met with a long time ago said it would be hard based on the freshman year 3.30. My adviser said I can always take a W in Organic Chem but unfortunately I already received too many Ws my freshman year when I got a 3.30...

[nlee10]

So why do you want to practice law?

[gnomgnomuch]

Hi everyone. I posted awhile back about my indecision to take physics or not given that my heart has pretty much left medicine and I really would like to get into the T14... I ended up taking taking the class anyway and I got an A in physics lecture and an A- in the lab unfortunately. However, class has started and I'm already in Organic Chem.... I've realized too late in the game that this class is super hard and I honestly don't even know if I can manage a B in this class (I'm also taking 2 other hard statistics courses that I am required to take for my major so that's another reason why I believe I could very well bomb Orgo). I am VERY concerned since my first year at a different university my GPA was 3.30 and my GPA at this university now is 3.94.... so I know LSAC will be averaging my grades. The reason why I enrolled in Organic Chem I would consider the medical field such as Pharmacy which does not require a long residency as a back up plan for me in case I cannot do well on the LSAT thus ruining my chances at T14 with my combined GPA and possible low LSAT score. I am panicked as I don't know what to do at all at this point.... If I stay in Orgo and somehow manage a B- or B is it worth it to stay or should I drop it now? With this class, people say it will be impossible to get an A and I know that I have a slim shot at T14 already because of my terrible first year in college. Again, the only reason compelling me to stick out the Orgo class is in case I cannot score high enough on LSAT to be able to go somewhere in T14 (I've talked with many friends that have taken LSAT had great excellent GPAs like 4.0s and have had to go to DePaul and Loyola Law and such because the LSAT was brutal for them... EX: In one of my classes, a person graduated with a 3.9 GPA herself, came from one of those law schools, and she was so unhappy with her job prospects that she came to my college as a post-bac to go to veterinary school. ) Ultimately, my dream law school is UChicago because I would love to remain in Chicago area but my pre-law adviser (who, no offense, has not been very helpful to me) that I met with a long time ago said it would be hard based on the freshman year 3.30. My adviser said I can always take a W in Organic Chem but unfortunately I already received too many Ws my freshman year when I got a 3.30...

A 3.3 is not unrecoverable. Freshman year GPA was a 3.28 for me, graduated with a 3.78. If you truly want LS than I'd say drop it, and take a few W's, they won't hurt you in the long run, especially if you never drop a class again. However, if there's a part of you that doesn't want to go to LS, then I'd say major in something like Econ/Stat's... where you can handle the work, keep up a good GPA, but still have career prospects after graduation if LS doesn't pan out.

[Formerpremed]

So why do you want to practice law?

A lot of reasons. Mostly, the fact that it would only be 3 years long and that my debt could be paid a lot quicker working in big law then if I were to go to med school + another 4 years of residency and then work as a primary care physician.... I would be neck deep in debt. I have some family that are lawyers and every time I talk with them their work sounds really interesting to me.

[AdamDeMamp]

Hi everyone. I posted awhile back about my indecision to take physics or not given that my heart has pretty much left medicine and I really would like to get into the T14... I ended up taking taking the class anyway and I got an A in physics lecture and an A- in the lab unfortunately. However, class has started and I'm already in Organic Chem.... I've realized too late in the game that this class is super hard and I honestly don't even know if I can manage a B in this class (I'm also taking 2 other hard statistics courses that I am required to take for my major so that's another reason why I believe I could very well bomb Orgo). I am VERY concerned since my first year at a different university my GPA was 3.30 and my GPA at this university now is 3.94.... so I know LSAC will be averaging my grades. The reason why I enrolled in Organic Chem I would consider the medical field such as Pharmacy which does not require a long residency as a back up plan for me in case I cannot do well on the LSAT thus ruining my chances at T14 with my combined GPA and possible low LSAT score. I am panicked as I don't know what to do at all at this point.... If I stay in Orgo and somehow manage a B- or B is it worth it to stay or should I drop it now? With this class, people say it will be impossible to get an A and I know that I have a slim shot at T14 already because of my terrible first year in college. Again, the only reason compelling me to stick out the Orgo class is in case I cannot score high enough on LSAT to be able to go somewhere in T14 (I've talked with many friends that have taken LSAT had great excellent GPAs like 4.0s and have had to go to DePaul and Loyola Law and such because the LSAT was brutal for them... EX: In one of my classes, a person graduated with a 3.9 GPA herself, came from one of those law schools, and she was so unhappy with her job prospects that she came to my college as a post-bac to go to veterinary school. ) Ultimately, my dream law school is UChicago because I would love to remain in Chicago area but my pre-law adviser (who, no offense, has not been very helpful to me) that I met with a long time ago said it would be hard based on the freshman year 3.30. My adviser said I can always take a W in Organic Chem but unfortunately I already received too many Ws my freshman year when I got a 3.30...

I think if you get this stressed about picking classes maybe the legal profession isn't for you

[Formerpremed]

Hi everyone. I posted awhile back about my indecision to take physics or not given that my heart has pretty much left medicine and I really would like to get into the T14... I ended up taking taking the class anyway and I got an A in physics lecture and an A- in the lab unfortunately. However, class has started and I'm already in Organic Chem.... I've realized too late in the game that this class is super hard and I honestly don't even know if I can manage a B in this class (I'm also taking 2 other hard statistics courses that I am required to take for my major so that's another reason why I believe I could very well bomb Orgo). I am VERY concerned since my first year at a different university my GPA was 3.30 and my GPA at this university now is 3.94.... so I know LSAC will be averaging my grades. The reason why I enrolled in Organic Chem I would consider the medical field such as Pharmacy which does not require a long residency as a back up plan for me in case I cannot do well on the LSAT thus ruining my chances at T14 with my combined GPA and possible low LSAT score. I am panicked as I don't know what to do at all at this point.... If I stay in Orgo and somehow manage a B- or B is it worth it to stay or should I drop it now? With this class, people say it will be impossible to get an A and I know that I have a slim shot at T14 already because of my terrible first year in college. Again, the only reason compelling me to stick out the Orgo class is in case I cannot score high enough on LSAT to be able to go somewhere in T14 (I've talked with many friends that have taken LSAT had great excellent GPAs like 4.0s and have had to go to DePaul and Loyola Law and such because the LSAT was brutal for them... EX: In one of my classes, a person graduated with a 3.9 GPA herself, came from one of those law schools, and she was so unhappy with her job prospects that she came to my college as a post-bac to go to veterinary school. ) Ultimately, my dream law school is UChicago because I would love to remain in Chicago area but my pre-law adviser (who, no offense, has not been very helpful to me) that I met with a long time ago said it would be hard based on the freshman year 3.30. My adviser said I can always take a W in Organic Chem but unfortunately I already received too many Ws my freshman year when I got a 3.30...

A 3.3 is not unrecoverable. Freshman year GPA was a 3.28 for me, graduated with a 3.78. If you truly want LS than I'd say drop it, and take a few W's, they won't hurt you in the long run, especially if you never drop a class again. However, if there's a part of you that doesn't want to go to LS, then I'd say major in something like Econ/Stat's... where you can handle the work, keep up a good GPA, but still have career prospects after graduation if LS doesn't pan out.

Unfortunately it's still too late for me to major in Econ and stats.... Also, I'm from a non-target school so I would struggle immensely with recruiting. I really am interested in law. The reason for me being hesitant about it is because I know how important the LSAT is and I am not the best standardized test taker... Also, I've looked at the Logic section and could not wrap my head around it at all. Hopefully that will improve once I start studying for LSAT though but according to my pre-law adviser she told me that section is hard to improve on. I also know that Law is very strict on GPA and LSAT scores and do not really care about extracurriculars and volunteering activities.

[TexasENG]

My recommendation, as someone who took OChem 1, 2 and a lot of other science / math classes, and started college as pre-med (I have no idea why, I never really wanted to practice medicine) would be the following.

1.) Make sure that if you are going to withdraw you do it before the deadline. Ochem is single handedly destroying my LSAC GPA because I retook OChem 1 but withdrew after my deadline so ended up with an F equivalent the first time instead of a W. This doesn't effect my reported GPA on my transcript however LSAC counts both instances.

2.) If you think you might end up in a field (not law) that will require it stick with it. In my experience Ochem went 1 of 2 ways, either you really get it, or you struggle mightily through it. If you are struggling you need to go to office hours / find a friend or tutor that can help you out with it. I had a couple of friends struggling half way through that spent serious time with the professor and had an epiphany half way through the course. In many ways it is a memorization course, and if you know how difficult it is going in you can dedicate the required time towards it.

Quick edit on Point 2. My first time through Ochem I thought it was a normal chemistry course and half-assed it. I failed my first 2 exams (literally my only 2 F's on tests through college). When I retook it I spent a ton of time on it and worked with friends / the professor to really get it and ended up with an A-.

[Formerpremed]

My recommendation, as someone who took OChem 1, 2 and a lot of other science / math classes, and started college as pre-med (I have no idea why, I never really wanted to practice medicine) would be the following.

1.) Make sure that if you are going to withdraw you do it before the deadline. Ochem is single handedly destroying my LSAC GPA because I retook OChem 1 but withdrew after my deadline so ended up with an F equivalent the first time instead of a W. This doesn't effect my reported GPA on my transcript however LSAC counts both instances.

2.) If you think you might end up in a field (not law) that will require it stick with it. In my experience Ochem went 1 of 2 ways, either you really get it, or you struggle mightily through it. If you are struggling you need to go to office hours / find a friend or tutor that can help you out with it. I had a couple of friends struggling half way through that spent serious time with the professor and had an epiphany half way through the course. In many ways it is a memorization course, and if you know how difficult it is going in you can dedicate the required time towards it.

Quick edit on Point 2. My first time through Ochem I thought it was a normal chemistry course and half-assed it. I failed my first 2 exams (literally my only 2 F's on tests through college). When I retook it I spent a ton of time on it and worked with friends / the professor to really get it and ended up with an A-.

This is really good advice. Thank you for sharing this.

[krads153]

So why do you want to practice law?

A lot of reasons. Mostly, the fact that it would only be 3 years long and that my debt could be paid a lot quicker working in big law then if I were to go to med school + another 4 years of residency and then work as a primary care physician.... I would be neck deep in debt. I have some family that are lawyers and every time I talk with them their work sounds really interesting to me.

This is a terrible reason to do law.

Honestly, it doesn't sound like you have much reason to do either medicine or law.

[benwyatt]

Post removed.

[Formerpremed]

Well I do want to go to law school and I am interested in law. I have known plenty of people go to law school that have no idea what law is even about and that in my opinion is far worse. I wanted to be a doctor forever until recently and I don't know exactly what I want to do in law but I do know that I want to go to law school. If you'd like to help me, I'd appreciate your advice. If you don't like my answer then you don't have to comment because this is already a really tough situation that I'm in and it's really gotten me down in the dumps.

[mist4bison]

Well I do want to go to law school and I am interested in law. I have known plenty of people go to law school that have no idea what law is even about and that in my opinion is far worse. I wanted to be a doctor forever until recently and I don't know exactly what I want to do in law but I do know that I want to go to law school. If you'd like to help me, I'd appreciate your advice. If you don't like my answer then you don't have to comment because this is already a really tough situation that I'm in and it's really gotten me down in the dumps.

I don't think anyone is trying to tell you not to go to law school because they don't like your answer specifically. Rather, it doesn't seem you have set reasons for going to law school other than 1) making money more quickly than another profession and 2) knowing people who like it. Law school is hard. Practicing law is hard. A lot of people hate that they chose law school/law as a career. Money is not a very good reason to choose law school. Why did you decide not to go to med school? Was it because it seems like a long time before making money? If that's the only reason, maybe you should reevaluate and consider med school again. Or, like you'd mentioned, maybe Pharm is a better route. Either way, you shouldn't choose a career based simply on money or which career will get you money faster.

As for right now, just take the class and do your best. Stop stressing about this. There is plenty of time to stress later.

[libertttarian]

Med school is not a backup plan. If you don't have a passion for medicine, get out of Orgo. The class isn't easy and the premed track doesn't get easier. Many of my friends are premed and Orgo 1 is just the tip of the iceberg.

You don't seem to really want to be a doctor, so what does Orgo 1 offer you? At worst it will demoralize you and kill your gpa. At best you do well in the class but it doesn't add anything to your resume and you'll still need to take Orgo 2, analytical chem, and a bunch of other really shitty classes to get the M.D.
It's a no win situation taking Orgo 1 if you aren't trying to be a doctor. If med school is your "backup plan," you should get out of the class.

[krads153]

Med school is not a backup plan. If you don't have a passion for medicine, get out of Orgo. The class isn't easy and the premed track doesn't get easier. Many of my friends are premed and Orgo 1 is just the tip of the iceberg.

You don't seem to really want to be a doctor, so what does Orgo 1 offer you? At worst it will demoralize you and kill your gpa. At best you do well in the class but it doesn't add anything to your resume and you'll still need to take Orgo 2, analytical chem, and a bunch of other really shitty classes to get the M.D.
It's a no win situation taking Orgo 1 if you aren't trying to be a doctor. If med school is your "backup plan," you should get out of the class.

To be fair, med school is more plain memorization (more like Bio) than Orgo. Orgo is not really a good example of what you do in med school. Plus, a lot of people think Orgo is the hardest pre-med pre-req.

That said, I don't think OP really wants to do either med or law, except to make money or for "prestige" purposes.

OP should just focus on doing well in the class and reevaluate life later. There's no rush to get anywhere in life, and both law and medicine require a lot of schooling and, more importantly, money.

[gnomgnomuch]

Hi everyone. I posted awhile back about my indecision to take physics or not given that my heart has pretty much left medicine and I really would like to get into the T14... I ended up taking taking the class anyway and I got an A in physics lecture and an A- in the lab unfortunately. However, class has started and I'm already in Organic Chem.... I've realized too late in the game that this class is super hard and I honestly don't even know if I can manage a B in this class (I'm also taking 2 other hard statistics courses that I am required to take for my major so that's another reason why I believe I could very well bomb Orgo). I am VERY concerned since my first year at a different university my GPA was 3.30 and my GPA at this university now is 3.94.... so I know LSAC will be averaging my grades. The reason why I enrolled in Organic Chem I would consider the medical field such as Pharmacy which does not require a long residency as a back up plan for me in case I cannot do well on the LSAT thus ruining my chances at T14 with my combined GPA and possible low LSAT score. I am panicked as I don't know what to do at all at this point.... If I stay in Orgo and somehow manage a B- or B is it worth it to stay or should I drop it now? With this class, people say it will be impossible to get an A and I know that I have a slim shot at T14 already because of my terrible first year in college. Again, the only reason compelling me to stick out the Orgo class is in case I cannot score high enough on LSAT to be able to go somewhere in T14 (I've talked with many friends that have taken LSAT had great excellent GPAs like 4.0s and have had to go to DePaul and Loyola Law and such because the LSAT was brutal for them... EX: In one of my classes, a person graduated with a 3.9 GPA herself, came from one of those law schools, and she was so unhappy with her job prospects that she came to my college as a post-bac to go to veterinary school. ) Ultimately, my dream law school is UChicago because I would love to remain in Chicago area but my pre-law adviser (who, no offense, has not been very helpful to me) that I met with a long time ago said it would be hard based on the freshman year 3.30. My adviser said I can always take a W in Organic Chem but unfortunately I already received too many Ws my freshman year when I got a 3.30...

A 3.3 is not unrecoverable. Freshman year GPA was a 3.28 for me, graduated with a 3.78. If you truly want LS than I'd say drop it, and take a few W's, they won't hurt you in the long run, especially if you never drop a class again. However, if there's a part of you that doesn't want to go to LS, then I'd say major in something like Econ/Stat's... where you can handle the work, keep up a good GPA, but still have career prospects after graduation if LS doesn't pan out.

Unfortunately it's still too late for me to major in Econ and stats.... Also, I'm from a non-target school so I would struggle immensely with recruiting. I really am interested in law. The reason for me being hesitant about it is because I know how important the LSAT is and I am not the best standardized test taker... Also, I've looked at the Logic section and could not wrap my head around it at all. Hopefully that will improve once I start studying for LSAT though but according to my pre-law adviser she told me that section is hard to improve on. I also know that Law is very strict on GPA and LSAT scores and do not really care about extracurriculars and volunteering activities.

Meh, recruitment is over rated tbh. There are ton's of jobs out there in those fields where all you need is a solid GPA (3.0+) and a couple of internships. Many of my friends minored in stats/econ's and ended up with jobs in those fields.

Also, it's never too late, you can just graduate late, which in this day and age is absolutely fine. One of my side jobs is writing resumes on the side, I recently wrote a resume for a guy who took 8 years to get his bachelors. He got a job in like 2 months. It's doable.

LS is prob 90% LSAT/GPA. A high LSAT is everything. If you have a borderline acceptable GPA (3.3ish) and a stellar LSAT you'd be able to sneak almost every school except for HYS and Berk. Granted, you'd have no scholarships probably, but you'd still be able to attend.

Finally, the LSAT is a very learn-able test. My first diagnostic was a 146, after about 2-3 months of inconsistent studying I was able to get a 168 on a practice. (Then I got into grad school, and stopped studying.) But, LG always is almost always the worst for people because it's so foreign. Once you start studying how to do them, you'll get them pretty quickly. LR is very doable, and RC you've seen before. Don't let a fear of standardized tests screw you, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[zhenders]

Thread tldr, but I wanted to add I graduated with something like 8 Ws, and I'm at a T6 w/$$. The thread rightly went the "why law school" direction, which first and foremost is the big question -- but if you're set on LS and worried about another W, don't be.

[BruceWayne]

If you enjoy taking science/math classes but want to go to law school I would just plan on doing IP law and aiming to get a C or better in O Chem. From what I've seen IP is such a booming practice area that you can have bad grades in undergrad, bad grades in law school, and go to just a decent law school and still get a good paying IP gig. I've been out a few years so maybe things have changed but that's how it was for my classmates who had IP credentials (in fairness though my law school was top 14).

[salander]

I think I only used this site once to read an explanation, but it was one of the best explanations I've ever read:

http://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/blog/

And if you find your textbook lacking, I would recommend Janice Smith's Organic Chemistry. Fantastic, clear explanations and illustrations.

If you end up sticking with the class, here are some general tips for orgo:

1) You gotta practice! Practice, practice, and for heaven's sake, practice. It's a tough class, but doable if you're able to discipline yourself.
2) You MUST have the reactions down first before you can even begin the creative part of orgo (aka synthesis problems). Don't even think about attempting a synthesis problem if you haven't memorized the basic reactions.
3) Orgo's a class where everything builds on each other, so you should regularly go back and review past problem sets and exams.
4) I personally didn't find the molecular model kit that helpful, but some people certainly did, so you should consider either buying or borrowing a set to help with visualization.
5) If your exams are extremely time-pressed like mine were, you should definitely implement the good ol' test-taking strategy of ONLY doing the problems you can do pretty quickly first. Otherwise, you risk leaving large parts of the test blank.
6) Finally, treat orgo problems like they're fun You're making new compounds... how cool is that!?

Disclaimer: My class may have been different from what yours is like.

Good luck!

[CanadianWolf]

Odd that you were unaware of the difficulty of Organic Chemistry. Nevertheless, just work hard & earn the best grade that you can so that you still have career options in the medical field.

With respect to law school, just worry about the LSAT since a high score should yield plenty of substantial scholarship offers to regional schools.

[Lawdog23]

I was in the exact same situation at the beginning of the semester. I dropped orgo because it wasn't worth it to me to grind through it just to keep medical options open. I'd rather take it after I knew 100% that I wanted into the medical profession. Hope this helps