Long Story Short - Need Some Advice. Forum

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:17 pm

Goal: Job in the Philadelphia public defender's office. Figure it's a 50+ hour week or somethin' like that. Don't care much for salary nor status; do care about controlling debt.

Target: Schools like Drexel in or around Philly

LSAT: June '15: Scored Within 25th - 75th range - Drexel; WAS Practice Testing REALLY WELL.... blah blah blah.... bottom-line is the bottom-line on test day. I'll Retake the LSAT in Dec and maybe again in Feb '16.

GPA: Graduated In 2010 with a bachelor's in business from a "meh" university - Above 75th range - Drexel.

Recommendations: My ~~man~~ "coach" (non-paid: though I did give him the winnings from the tournament) at the tennis club I hack around at told me he'd write me up a rec. We were just shooting the **** between games and I was talking about trying to get into law and all that, and he brought up the idea of puttn' in a good word for me. So I said to him he didn't have to cause I enjoy hitting w/ him either way, and I didn't want him to feel it was some quid-pro-quo, or whatever, but he encouraged the idea. He's a Phd. math professor and Temple Alumn - dude also has a decent backhand drop shot. My Baptist Pastor would probably say something positive about me as well, but haven't discussed the idea with him yet, so we'll see what happens there.

Work Experience: Was an advantage gambler for a long time; very solid and consistent player. Paid taxes quarterly and at the end of season so I have the records demonstrating wins, losses, and earnings and all that jazz. Before that I worked at a college in a computer lab and proctoring tests. Also gave a handful of tennis lessons.

Softs: Whatever... Not much to think of off the top of my head in terms of extra curricular, etc. If there's an interview, and I hear they don't happen too frequently, I'd say I'm an easy going guy and def go w/ the flow personality.

Bottom Line: Don't think I'm scholly material or anything like that, but do believe I've got a good shot at admittance to my target schools. Any thoughts on improving my chances? Your thoughts on school selection given career goals? Advice regarding preparing for 1L? Thanks, and much appreciated. Peace.

God Bless,
IWantToBeAFarmer

Mack.Hambleton · Post by **Mack.Hambleton** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:53 pm

Recs don't work like that. They want two academic letters (from professors etc) and then after that it's optional, but I wouldn't get one from your friend at the tennis club lol.

You shouldn't be PTing anywhere within drexels medians, look up a good LSAT guide, follow it, and then only take the actual exam when your PT averages are much higher.

I'm not sure how competitive Philly PD jobs are so I'll let someone else comment on that

Clemenceau · Post by **Clemenceau** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:58 pm

Don't go to drexel. It's an objectively bad law school. Doesn't even have much of an alumni network in philly.

Retake and aim for a full ride to temple. That'd be a good choice for philly PI type work

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:15 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Recs don't work like that. They want two academic letters (from professors etc) and then after that it's optional, but I wouldn't get one from your friend at the tennis club lol.

Welp, I've done well undergrad, but I'm not the type to really get to know my professors so I'm not sure what the heck they'd say about me other than, "He did well in my class and didn't say too much." I thought because the gentleman I hit w/ at the club is an acquaintance that I've gotten to know a little bit, and since he's a mathematics Phd professor and Temple alum, that him offering to write a letter would be a good thing. No?

Mack.Hambleton wrote:You shouldn't be PTing anywhere within drexels medians, look up a good LSAT guide, follow it, and then only take the actual exam when your PT averages are much higher.

My actual score, that I received back from LSAC.org in July 2015, for the June 8th, 2015 LSAT exam, taken at Villanova University, was within Drexel's 25th - 75th range.... My PT's prior to taking the actual exam were much better than that. I guess there was some confusion there; by the way, I did okay on the RC portion of the exam.

Mack.Hambleton wrote:I'm not sure how competitive Philly PD jobs are so I'll let someone else comment on that

Okay. Yeah, I'm shooting for public defender in Philly so I'm not sure how a Drexel type law school education would parlay into that.

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:21 pm

Clemenceau wrote:Don't go to drexel. It's an objectively bad law school. Doesn't even have much of an alumni network in philly.

Retake and aim for a full ride to temple. That'd be a good choice for philly PI type work

I've read some different things about Drexel Law. Some state that it's not bad. Others write that it ain't all it's cracked up to be. Honestly, dunno at this point; as long as I can get the education I need and can pass The Bar, I would think it be okay. But, you might be right. Thx for the advice!

IWantToBeAFarmer

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:17 am

Clemenceau wrote:Retake and aim for a full ride to temple. That'd be a good choice for philly PI type work

Yo, what kinda damage you gotta do on the LSAT to pull of a full ride to Temple Law?

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:04 am

Anyone?

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:55 am

Check out mylsn.info for typical numbers.

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:14 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Check out mylsn.info for typical numbers.

Thx

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=251038

Much more interactive thread above. My GPA wasn't as high as this guys, but I graduated Magna Cum Laude so it sounds like it's going to come down to LSAT performance on my 2nd and perhaps, 3rd attempts.

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:49 pm

Once Again, My Goals:

-Get Into An Acceptable Law School & Seeking To Minimize Student Loans; Pass Bar Exam
-PD Office in Philadelphia; No Intention Of Retiring
-Hope To Start At 40K & Stay At 40K Throughout My Career (Adjusted For Inflation)
-Not Seeking Promotions
*Figure It's 50+ Hour Work Week

What I've Gleaned From The Scarce Advice Given Thus Far:

--
Any Thoughts On Improving My Chances For Admittance?

-LSAT: Take Again. Study Diligently & Improve Score.
-GPA: No Problem
-Softs & Rec: Don't Get A Rec From Anyone But A Previous Employer Or Instructor, Unless It's A 3rd, Optional Rec.
-Work History: No Comments

Your Thoughts On School Selection Given Career Goals?

-Told Not To Go To Drexel & To Aim For A Scholarship At Temple Law, Per The Results Of Oct./Dec. LSAT.

Advice Regarding Preparing For 1L?

No Comments.

--

Anyone Else? I'm All Ears!

IWantToBeAFarmer

basedvulpes · Post by **basedvulpes** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:10 pm

Post removed.

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:01 pm

basedvulpes wrote:Can I ask why you're applying to law school when you so very clearly want to work in agriculture?

Farming Is A Very, Very, Very Long Term Ambition! Think About It.

God Bless!

Tiago Splitter · Post by **Tiago Splitter** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:27 pm

I don't know about Temple or Nova specifically but typically you want to be at or above both medians for something near a full ride. Check Lawschoolnumbers.com to see what kind of scholarships they give. Fortunately Philly has those decent middle options and they're too easy to get in to for Drexel to be worthwhile for anyone.

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:46 pm

Advice:

1. Don't put God Bless as a salutation. It's not kosher.

2. Don't go to Drexel.

3. PDs offices aren't as selective about school as BigLaw, but the better of a school you go to, the easier you will find getting interviews.

4. That said, if you do go to some s*** school like Drexel, then make sure you take the right classes and get decent to good grades. Crim Pro 1 & 2, crim drafting class if that is offered, Evidence, and Trial Practice. And make sure every g***amn summer you are at a PDs office doing your best damn work ever so you have a good name and people who will tell the managing attorney to hire you. Actually, even if you don't go to a s*** school, since even people with good grades and the right classes from decent schools and even T14 can find getting a PD job really fricking difficult.

5. Study harder for the LSAT. It is totally within your control, and your ability to score above the 75th for places like Temple is almost assured with diligent practice.

Ron Howard · Post by **Ron Howard** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:57 pm

First, you should definably retake the LSAT. I think this part is pretty cut and dry, because you sound like you underperformed on exam day and because you are open to the idea. Also, I think it would be useful to know what your were scoring on those practice tests. If you think you can get in the high 160s or even the 170s, your class of school will improve dramatically. But since you are interested in becoming a public defender, you don't necessary need to go an "elite" school. You want a full scholarship to a pretty good or better school. For the full-scholarship, Temple may be good choice. But you can make that determination after you get your new LSAT score.

As for letters of recommendation, your should obtain two or three of them from professors whose courses you performed well in and who can speak of your potential. Give them a copy of your personal statement––which we can give you advice about––and a copy of your resume. This, in addition to the conversation you will have with them about your intent in become a public defender, will serve as good material for the letter. Do not get a letter from your tennis pal.

Finally, I would like to thank you for your commitment to public service. Public defenders in particular serve as a bulwark in defense not only of those who lack the means to private legal counsel, but also of our basic Constitutional rights in the general sense. It is truly nobel work.

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:46 pm

spleenworship wrote:Advice:

1. Don't put God Bless as a salutation. It's not kosher.

We adamantly disagree.

spleenworship wrote:Advice:

2. Don't go to Drexel.

Appreciate your input and you're not the 1st poster on here to tell me this. All I know about the school are based on a few interactions I've had through email and their LSAT/GPA #'s. I was granted an invitation to attend a information session and I sent a brief reply explaining my situation. The woman I corresponded w/ went the extra mile in addressing my concerns. Seemed very genuine and helpful.

Perhaps the problem some TLS posters have w/ Drexel is a matter of perspective; The forum caters more towards the elite LSAT takers and T14 or bust type of thinking.

spleenworship wrote:Advice:

3. PDs offices aren't as selective about school as BigLaw, but the better of a school you go to, the easier you will find getting interviews.

Thank you. This is my goal.

spleenworship wrote:Advice:

4. That said, if you do go to some s*** school like Drexel, then make sure you take the right classes and get decent to good grades. Crim Pro 1 & 2, crim drafting class if that is offered, Evidence, and Trial Practice. And make sure every g***amn summer you are at a PDs office doing your best damn work ever so you have a good name and people who will tell the managing attorney to hire you. Actually, even if you don't go to a s*** school, since even people with good grades and the right classes from decent schools and even T14 can find getting a PD job really fricking difficult.

Thanks! I will heed your advice.

Advice: Commandment #3 wasn't a suggestion.

spleenworship wrote: 5. Study harder for the LSAT. It is totally within your control, and your ability to score above the 75th for places like Temple is almost assured with diligent practice.

Will do and overall much appreciated. You know your stuff.

Regards,
IWantToBeAFarmer

basedvulpes · Post by **basedvulpes** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:02 am

Post removed.

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:05 am

Ron Howard wrote:First, you should definably retake the LSAT. I think this part is pretty cut and dry, because you sound like you underperformed on exam day and because you are open to the idea. Also, I think it would be useful to know what your were scoring on those practice tests. If you think you can get in the high 160s or even the 170s, your class of school will improve dramatically. But since you are interested in becoming a public defender, you don't necessary need to go an "elite" school. You want a full scholarship to a pretty good or better school. For the full-scholarship, Temple may be good choice. But you can make that determination after you get your new LSAT score.

As for letters of recommendation, your should obtain two or three of them from professors whose courses you performed well in and who can speak of your potential. Give them a copy of your personal statement––which we can give you advice about––and a copy of your resume. This, in addition to the conversation you will have with them about your intent in become a public defender, will serve as good material for the letter. Do not get a letter from your tennis pal.

Finally, I would like to thank you for your commitment to public service. Public defenders in particular serve as a bulwark in defense not only of those who lack the means to private legal counsel, but also of our basic Constitutional rights in the general sense. It is truly nobel work.

I don't like excuses. I got the score I got on test day. Will take your suggestions and give it another go.

IWantToBeAFarmer

IWantToBeAFarmer · Post by **IWantToBeAFarmer** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:16 am

basedvulpes wrote:
IWantToBeAFarmer wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Advice:

2. Don't go to Drexel.
Appreciate your input and you're not the 1st poster on here to tell me this. All I know about the school are based on a few interactions I've had through email and their LSAT/GPA #'s. I was granted an invitation to attend a information session and I sent a brief reply explaining my situation. The woman I corresponded w/ went the extra mile in addressing my concerns. Seemed very genuine and helpful.

Protip: never pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for good customer service

W/out going into details, it wasn't a standard inquiry. A friendly tone or a pleasant customer service experience, in and of itself, isn't worth that much. The woman I interacted with went the extra mile in addressing my concerns by letting me know that she would look into it, but that it would take some time. The following day she replied in detail, as to my best options.

pancakes3 · Post by **pancakes3** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:18 am

If you graduated Magna, there's no reason for you to attend Drexel, or Temple for that matter. Even if you "just" want Philly PI.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:56 am

You probably need a 160 or above to get a hefty scholarship to Villanova & a 163 or higher for Temple.

P.S. Have you checked out the tennis courts at Pepperdine ?

Aquila · Post by **Aquila** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:13 am

CanadianWolf wrote:You probably need a 160 or above to get a hefty scholarship to Villanova & a 163 or higher for Temple.

P.S. Have you checked out the tennis courts at Pepperdine ?

False, 157 or above at Villanova and 160 and above at temple with a magna GPA range.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:16 am

OP hasn't shared his GPA other than to state that it is above Drexel's 75th%. (So OP might just have a 3.50. Which is not "magna range".)

Aquila · Post by **Aquila** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:20 am

IWantToBeAFarmer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Check out mylsn.info for typical numbers.
Thx

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=251038

Much more interactive thread above. My GPA wasn't as high as this guys, but I graduated Magna Cum Laude so it sounds like it's going to come down to LSAT performance on my 2nd and perhaps, 3rd attempts.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:25 am

OP: What is your GPA ?

Schools set their own GPAs for distinctions such as "magna cum laude". A 3.50 is the base level for magna at many schools--but it varies by school.