"Bad" Law Schools Forum

[mattf]

I was just curious if there were any law schools out there that are known for really bad job placement/relatively high bar exam fail rate, etc. Or does it not really make a difference for the average person trying to get a job as a lawyer where you got your JD from?

[twenty]

Law schools are "bad" if, after three years of law school, you can't find a job as an attorney. Bar pass rates really should be in the 80-100% across the board, and the fact that schools have lower pass rates than that is probably more indicative of the fact that their students can't read.

Obviously "bad" varies by who you ask. I think you'd find that some people on this forum wouldn't go to Georgetown for less than a full ride, and other people would consider University of San Diego at a 2/3 scholarship. It usually comes down to unemployment risk vs. how much debt you can stomach. Yale is pretty much universally considered "good" and Cooley is universally considered "bad." Make up your own mind on the schools in between.

[thisismyname]

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

Here's a good start. There are definitely a lot of "bad" law schools.

[Mack.Hambleton]

T14
Strong Regionals
State flagships

other than these, pretty much every law school is bad and not worth attending under most circumstances

[20160810]

Nope they're all good

[mattf]

T14
Strong Regionals
State flagships

other than these, pretty much every law school is bad and not worth attending under most circumstances

What are considered strong regionals? And what are strong flagships?

[mvp99]

T14
Strong Regionals
State flagships

other than these, pretty much every law school is bad and not worth attending under most circumstances

Why are most law schools not worth attending if they aren't T14? This isn't the first time I've heard this.

Law schools are "bad" if, after three years of law school, you can't find a job as an attorney. Bar pass rates really should be in the 80-100% across the board, and the fact that schools have lower pass rates than that is probably more indicative of the fact that their students can't read.

Obviously "bad" varies by who you ask. I think you'd find that some people on this forum wouldn't go to Georgetown for less than a full ride, and other people would consider University of San Diego at a 2/3 scholarship. It usually comes down to unemployment risk vs. how much debt you can stomach. Yale is pretty much universally considered "good" and Cooley is universally considered "bad." Make up your own mind on the schools in between.

[lawschool1741]

What are considered strong regionals? And what are strong flagships?

Outside of the T14, think: UT, UGA, UAlabama, UIowa, UCLA, UW-Madison, etc. Honestly, rankings do a fair enough job of telling you which law schools are worth attending. Then get more detailed stats through LST.

[lawschool1741]

Random follow-up question: Has the T14 ever changed? If not, will it ever?

Seems there is a fair amount of historical 'prestige' built into the rankings. Can this ever be overcome by a T20?

[thisismyname]

T14
Strong Regionals
State flagships

other than these, pretty much every law school is bad and not worth attending under most circumstances

Why are most law schools not worth attending if they aren't T14? This isn't the first time I've heard this.

Many people don't think that having anything less than an 85% of employment chances is worth going to school for. And outside T14 schools, you're not going to see that high of an employment rate. There are others that think that strong regional schools are good if you either want to practice in the region or are from the region. But these schools only really make sense if you can get them for a low COA. If I were choosing a law school, if I found a law school in the region I wanted to practice, I could go at a huge discount (in other words, not pulling out over 100K in loans), and their employment rate was at least over about 60% (sadly, that's decent for schools outside of T14), then I would still consider the school. There are other factors, such as what you want to do with a law degree (i.e. if you want biglaw, you would want to make sure the school has more than a 10% shot at it before attending even if all those other criteria were met). Basically, T14 or bust is not everyone. It really depends on your circumstances and goals.

[BigZuck]

Random follow-up question: Has the T14 ever changed? If not, will it ever?

Seems there is a fair amount of historical 'prestige' built into the rankings. Can this ever be overcome by a T20?

1. Not really

2. Highly doubtful

3. Not sure what you mean by overcome

[lawschool1741]

1. Not really

2. Highly doubtful

3. Not sure what you mean by overcome

Thanks! I meant like a T20 making its way into the T14 over time, 'overcoming' the historical prestige factor or w/e

[Turtledove]

1. Not really

2. Highly doubtful

3. Not sure what you mean by overcome

Thanks! I meant like a T20 making its way into the T14 over time, 'overcoming' the historical prestige factor or w/e

There is zero chance of this happening in any sort of time frame that would be relevant for you.

[mvp99]

And it doesn't matter on its own. Don't chase prestige if it doesn't really translate into better job prospects or a better alternative overall.

[lawschool1741]

There is zero chance of this happenong in any sort of time frame that would be relevant for you.

Figured. Was just wondering

[Wingtip88]

Law school (any higher education, really) needs to be considered in terms of debt- reward risk calculus. What bet are you placing (in terms of interest-bearing loans) for what chances at gainful employment?

Taking on larger debt for a T14 makes sense* (depending on career goals) but outside of that, considering rising costs and diminishing career prospects, you really need to keep your focus on minimizing debt.

Attending a low tier school with poor job prospects for a large debt is potentially akin to executing a mortgage for which you do not receive a house. It's senseless.

*I spoke recently with a family friend and former Managing Partner of over a decade at a V50 law firm who opined that he would recommend an elite school but for "nothing like the full price so many people borrow."

[mattf]

So going to a lower-tier school with a really good scholarship wouldn't be a bad decision?

[fats provolone]

Nope they're all good

[BigZuck]

So going to a lower-tier school with a really good scholarship wouldn't be a bad decision?

Completely impossible to answer this in the abstract without knowing a ton more info, such as which school, where do you want to work, what kind of job do you want, how much would it cost, etc.