Chances at HYS Forum

[Ohz]

Hi all.

It is my desire (as I'm sure is also the desire of many) to realistically determine whether I have a weak/fair/strong chance of getting into HYS.

First and foremost, I have not taken my LSAT yet nor have I received a Baccalaureate degree. So let's pretend that I get numbers in ranges that HYS really consider.

I am not an URM. I am active duty Navy, my contract is 6 years long. My job is Chinese to English translation (for the most part). So my strong softs will be military and bilingual.

1) Due to my military schedule, it has become impossible to finish my undergrad in a classroom setting. I am applying to Penn State Online so that I can finish during my enlistment. From what I have read on TLS, HYS do not look favorably upon online classes. Will my decision to finish at Penn State Online hamper my chances at getting in, or might this be something that is understandable and may be overlooked given my reason for doing so?

2) I have also read that HYS do not look favorably upon community college classes. I received an AA at my local community college before enlisting. 63 of my estimated 160 undergrad credits will have been taken at CC. Between 45 and 48 will have been taken online at Penn State. Deal breaker?

3) Regarding letters of recommendation, I am considering asking one of my Chinese professors to write one for me. These are teachers that I have spent a large amount of time with, and I feel they will be able to accurately convey my desire to work hard and academic prowess. My only concern is that these teachers aren't 100% awesome at English, and the content of the LOR may suffer as a result. Issue or no? Impact at HYS?

4) Since I am finishing my undergrad online, I will be forced to ask one of the online professors for a LOR. I feel that this may be awkward, especially since I will have never met them; it will also highlight the fact that I graduated online. A big deal, or no? Does anyone have experience with asking for a LOR from an online professor?

5) I think the 3rd LOR should come from my military chain of command, or one of my direct civilian supervisors. Should I go in this direction, or obtain a 3rd academic LOR as 6 years of military service (kind of) speaks for itself.

Thanks in advance. Any answers and responses are greatly appreciated.

I have also established a poll for those who may not desire to write a response, but do take the time to read my post.

[kingpin101]

So let's pretend that I get numbers in ranges that HYS really consider.

LOL LOL LOL.

[ballcaps]

So let's pretend that I get numbers in ranges that HYS really consider.

LOL LOL LOL.

lolling. you're going to assume a straight-A average and a LITERAL 99TH PERCENTILE LSAT score?

if you're comfortable assuming that, then i'd say your chances are great!

[nlee10]

No GPA or LSAT yet? Good story bro.

[TheSpanishMain]

So let's pretend that I get numbers in ranges that HYS really consider.

LOL LOL LOL.

Er, yeah. Are you on track to get a 3.8+ GPA? Have you taken a bunch of practice LSATs under test conditions and consistently scored in the 170s? If the answer to either of these is no, I'm not sure why you're comfortable assuming this.

If you DO have some reason for thinking HYS numbers are plausible, that's a different story of course.

[bluchai]

I think law school (from what I've read here, at least) admissions put more weight on numbers than softs. Either the softs carry more weight for URMs, or serve as some sort of tiebreaker. Either way, they provide good discussion material for interviews!

So, we don't have your numbers. Also, I think only an adcom can answer these questions. Some may disagree.

[Rigo]

First and foremost, I have not taken my LSAT yet nor have I received a Baccalaureate degree. So let's pretend that I get numbers in ranges that HYS really consider.

This is so outrageously premature, but I'll humor you.

1) Due to my military schedule, it has become impossible to finish my undergrad in a classroom setting. I am applying to Penn State Online so that I can finish during my enlistment. From what I have read on TLS, HYS do not look favorably upon online classes. Will my decision to finish at Penn State Online hamper my chances at getting in, or might this be something that is understandable and may be overlooked given my reason for doing so?

I would say you have a valid reason so long as the online school is accredited.

2) I have also read that HYS do not look favorably upon community college classes. I received an AA at my local community college before enlisting. 63 of my estimated 160 undergrad credits will have been taken at CC. Between 45 and 48 will have been taken online at Penn State. Deal breaker?

No. What you've heard is that HYS generally does not look favorably on people padding their GPA's with CC classes (taking a ton of basket weaving classes over winter break to try and raise their cumulative GPA). You received your Associates. That isn't padding.

3) Regarding letters of recommendation, I am considering asking one of my Chinese professors to write one for me. These are teachers that I have spent a large amount of time with, and I feel they will be able to accurately convey my desire to work hard and academic prowess. My only concern is that these teachers aren't 100% awesome at English, and the content of the LOR may suffer as a result. Issue or no? Impact at HYS?

Not sure I have a good answer for this. I would definitely try and get letters from online professors also. I've heard of people arranging for translators to help recommenders write LOR's. Someone else will have to chime in here.
HYS definitely will want strong LOR's.

4) Since I am finishing my undergrad online, I will be forced to ask one of the online professors for a LOR. I feel that this may be awkward, especially since I will have never met them; it will also highlight the fact that I graduated online. A big deal, or no? Does anyone have experience with asking for a LOR from an online professor?

Not a big deal at all. Just really work to foster relationships with your online professors and really put the time into your Blackboard assignments.

5) I think the 3rd LOR should come from my military chain of command, or one of my direct civilian supervisors. Should I go in this direction, or obtain a 3rd academic LOR as 6 years of military service (kind of) speaks for itself.

This is 5 or so years down the line, but I think an "employer" LOR will be beneficial especially given the long period of time you will be in the same job. Academic LOR's are definitely the priority though.

[Pneumonia]

Others are right that it is premature to ask about your "chances," but to answer your question: HYS is not at all an unrealistic goal to set for yourself and you're in a good position to achieve it.

Compared to the entire applicant pool you've got at least 95th percentile softs.

You're GPA at community college will count towards your overall gpa, so if its sub-3.3ish then you're probably SOL. The fact that it's a community college itself will not hurt though, depending on where you finish.

[Ohz]

First and foremost, I have not taken my LSAT yet nor have I received a Baccalaureate degree. So let's pretend that I get numbers in ranges that HYS really consider.

This is so outrageously premature, but I'll humor you.

Well thank you for taking the time, I do appreciate it.

2) I have also read that HYS do not look favorably upon community college classes. I received an AA at my local community college before enlisting. 63 of my estimated 160 undergrad credits will have been taken at CC. Between 45 and 48 will have been taken online at Penn State. Deal breaker?

No. What you've heard is that HYS generally does not look favorably on people padding their GPA's with CC classes (taking a ton of basket weaving classes over winter break to try and raise their cumulative GPA). You received your Associates. That isn't padding.

You're GPA at community college will count towards your overall gpa, so if its sub-3.3ish then you're probably SOL. The fact that it's a community college itself will not hurt though, depending on where you finish.

That makes a lot more sense. Thank you for clarifying.

4) Since I am finishing my undergrad online, I will be forced to ask one of the online professors for a LOR. I feel that this may be awkward, especially since I will have never met them; it will also highlight the fact that I graduated online. A big deal, or no? Does anyone have experience with asking for a LOR from an online professor?

Not a big deal at all. Just really work to foster relationships with your online professors and really put the time into your Blackboard assignments.

Really happy to hear this.

lolling. you're going to assume a straight-A average and a LITERAL 99TH PERCENTILE LSAT score?

Realistically, I am expecting my combined GPA between all of my undergrad institutions to be somewhere between 3.7 and 3.8.

As for the LSAT, I have read extensively about it - I understand its challenges and how different people prepare for it. Because it is too soon out to begin actually studying for it, I have taken to things that improve my logic and critical thinking skills over the long term, like Sudoku and short, dense magazine articles. However, when it comes time to begin studying for it - It's on, for about 4 months. And I will ensure that I am scoring 174~ consistently before taking the real thing.

And if my numbers don't exactly reach high enough for HYS, I know top 10 is something I am definitely capable of.

Thank you for all of your replies~~~!!

[pancakes3]

I love the confidence that the military instills in our vets.

[TheSpanishMain]

And if my numbers don't exactly reach high enough for HYS, I know top 10 is something I am definitely capable of.

Thank you for all of your replies~~~!!

I think you'll end up in a good place, if you have a high GPA and don't settle for a mediocre LSAT. The online school may hurt you, or it may not. I've heard anecdotes both ways. I suspect the damage will be somewhat mitigated by your military service. Still, if you are stationed somewhere near a cheap brick-and-mortar school and your schedule allows you to bang out your final two years there in the evening (depends on whether your chain of command would work with you on this. If you're not in the field constantly and have predictable duty hours, it's not impossible.) that might be worth the hassle.

Even if you fall short of HYS, you'll still likely end up at a T14 for free thanks to the GI Bill.

[Ohz]

I think you'll end up in a good place, if you have a high GPA and don't settle for a mediocre LSAT. The online school may hurt you, or it may not. I've heard anecdotes both ways. I suspect the damage will be somewhat mitigated by your military service. Still, if you are stationed somewhere near a cheap brick-and-mortar school and your schedule allows you to bang out your final two years there in the evening (depends on whether your chain of command would work with you on this. If you're not in the field constantly and have predictable duty hours, it's not impossible.) that might be worth the hassle.

I am stationed in Hawaii, and I was/is attending the University of Hawaii at Manoa for a double major in Econ/Chinese. I was fully expecting to be able to get it done before separating. My leadership has since changed and has a different philosophy when it comes to working with subordinates. In the mean time, I will have to reduce my future course load quite a bit and drop the double major if I am to graduate there. I only need about 5~ more classes to get the degree in Chinese there. I will do my best to do this, but simultaneously I will attend Penn State Online for the Econ degree, just in case I can't finish it.

In the event that I am able to obtain the Chinese degree at UHM, should I *STOP* going to Penn State for the Econ degree, or finish it? I know LSAC calculates GPA based on courses up until acquisition of first undergrad degree. And if I should go for both -- Should I time it so that I graduate at UHM first?

Thanks~~~.

[bluchai]

I love the confidence that the military instills in our vets.

Are you being derogatory?

His softs remind me of someone I went to school with who has similar skills. Also military. 4.0 student.

[Rigo]

I love the confidence that the military instills in our vets.

Are you being derogatory?

He was simply making light of the fact that OP's post is extraordinarily presumptuous.

[bluchai]

I love the confidence that the military instills in our vets.

Are you being derogatory?

He was simply making light of the fact that OP's post is extraordinarily presumptuous.

Oh, I know but I didn't know whether he was hinting that vets are arrogant, or something like that.

I personally go by the mentality of filling out an application like it's a piece of art, but don't expect anyone will buy it at an auction. In other situations not necessarily involving law school apps, it makes each and every acceptance a cause for extreme euphoria. I took my rejections much better this way too. May not work for all people though.

[abasba32]

excellent.

[DiniMae]

I think that in order for you to avoid the negativity and ignorance, you should post in the Mil/Vet thread and also consult with S2S.

[elterrible78]

Compared to the entire applicant pool you've got at least 95th percentile softs.

I had pretty much the same softs, with a 3.95 and a 178, and I got WLed. Not sure they are 95th percentile softs.

[rustyburger2]

Compared to the entire applicant pool you've got at least 95th percentile softs.

I had pretty much the same softs, with a 3.95 and a 178, and I got WLed. Not sure they are 95th percentile softs.

I feel like if you got wait listed to ANY school (except maybe Yale) with a 3.95 and a 178, you must have fucked up hard somehow.

[Ramius]

Compared to the entire applicant pool you've got at least 95th percentile softs.

I had pretty much the same softs, with a 3.95 and a 178, and I got WLed. Not sure they are 95th percentile softs.

I feel like if you got wait listed to ANY school (except maybe Yale) with a 3.95 and a 178, you must have fucked up hard somehow.

Why? Elterrible actually had a killer cycle, deciding between great options ultimately. In a vacuum, you may feel like that's the case, but just not true. Elterrible was deciding on T14 full vs. HYS in the end, regardless of any WL action. Not a bad place to be.

[rustyburger2]

Compared to the entire applicant pool you've got at least 95th percentile softs.

I had pretty much the same softs, with a 3.95 and a 178, and I got WLed. Not sure they are 95th percentile softs.

I feel like if you got wait listed to ANY school (except maybe Yale) with a 3.95 and a 178, you must have fucked up hard somehow.

Why? Elterrible actually had a killer cycle, deciding between great options ultimately. In a vacuum, you may feel like that's the case, but just not true. Elterrible was deciding on T14 full vs. HYS in the end, regardless of any WL action. Not a bad place to be.

I'm not saying it's a bad place to be, or that he had a bad cycle. I'm saying that to not have gotten auto-accepted to Harvard or Stanford with a 178-3.95, then SOMETHING serious must have been off with his application.

[elterrible78]

I'm not saying it's a bad place to be, or that he had a bad cycle. I'm saying that to not have gotten auto-accepted to Harvard or Stanford with a 178-3.95, then SOMETHING serious must have been off with his application.

[/quote]

I assumed the same thing, although I got WLed after the Skype interview, which I thought went just fine (and I really don't think I'm wrong about that; I have enough of a track record to know I'm a good interviewer, and I'd have been aware of something that serious happened). To this day it remains a mystery to me.

Anyway, was just trying to point out that military and foreign language skills aren't the kinds of soft factors that will likely make up for subpar numbers.

[mvp99]

I'm not saying it's a bad place to be, or that he had a bad cycle. I'm saying that to not have gotten auto-accepted to Harvard or Stanford with a 178-3.95, then SOMETHING serious must have been off with his application.

I assumed the same thing, although I got WLed after the Skype interview, which I thought went just fine (and I really don't think I'm wrong about that; I have enough of a track record to know I'm a good interviewer, and I'd have been aware of something that serious happened). To this day it remains a mystery to me.

Anyway, was just trying to point out that military and foreign language skills aren't the kinds of soft factors that will likely make up for subpar numbers.[/quote] hey so you took columbia w a full ride right?

[elterrible78]

hey so you took columbia w a full ride right?

Nah, took a better school with a full ride

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'm not saying it's a bad place to be, or that he had a bad cycle. I'm saying that to not have gotten auto-accepted to Harvard or Stanford with a 178-3.95, then SOMETHING serious must have been off with his application.

From everything you see here on TLS, Stanford is pretty black-box-y, and can choose based on non-numbers factors. I don't think not getting in means anyone fucked up. (If elterrible even applied to S, I can't tell.)