3 years of law firm work exp. does it matter to schools? Forum

prelawTN · Post by **prelawTN** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:11 pm

By the fall of 2016, the year I'll be attending law school, I'll have about 3 years of work experience at various law firms. I'm just curious as to whether that will help or not. Right now, my GPA is rather low (I didn't start seriously considering law school until this past semester) but I'm hoping to get it into the low to mid 3's by graduation. Given that this may be easier said than done, schools like Wash U and Alabama will still look at me given my LSAT score will be rather high (I'm practicing in the mid 170's, tentatively taking it officially in February). Info on the various schools I have a chance at given my numbers is fairly widespread so I don't need advice on that in particular, nor do I need reminding that I shot myself in the foot with my first few semesters. What I'm looking for is anyone with genuine knowledge of whether real world law firm experience is actually very beneficial or not and if so, is it beneficial enough that schools like Vandy or Texas or even UVA will give me a look even though my GPA is likely to be at each of their floors.

zoomzoom88 · Post by **zoomzoom88** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:20 pm

prelawTN wrote:By the fall of 2016, the year I'll be attending law school, I'll have about 3 years of work experience at various law firms. I'm just curious as to whether that will help or not. Right now, my GPA is rather low (I didn't start seriously considering law school until this past semester) but I'm hoping to get it into the low to mid 3's by graduation. Given that this may be easier said than done, schools like Wash U and Alabama will still look at me given my LSAT score will be rather high (I'm practicing in the mid 170's, tentatively taking it officially in February). Info on the various schools I have a chance at given my numbers is fairly widespread so I don't need advice on that in particular, nor do I need reminding that I shot myself in the foot with my first few semesters. What I'm looking for is anyone with genuine knowledge of whether real world law firm experience is actually very beneficial or not and if so, is it beneficial enough that schools like Vandy or Texas or even UVA will give me a look even though my GPA is likely to be at each of their floors.

it is not considered true WE if it isn't post graduation.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:23 pm

Unfortunately, the work experience you have is not that beneficial in regards to admissions.
The best you can do is get that awesome LSAT score and work as hard as you can to bring your GPA up.

zoomzoom88 · Post by **zoomzoom88** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:25 pm

Dirigo wrote:Unfortunately, the work experience you have is not that beneficial in regards to admissions.
The best you can do is get that awesome LSAT score and work as hard as you can to bring your GPA up.

this. It may come in handy during OCI but then again only as a slight boost if you already have exceptional grades and LR. overall, I would recommend just focusing exclusively on grades and LSAT.

McAvoy · Post by **McAvoy** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:32 pm

Dirigo wrote:the work experience you have is not ~~that~~ beneficial in regards to admissions.

prelawTN · Post by **prelawTN** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:44 pm

That's pretty much what I figured. Oh well. At least it's tangible experience writing motions and such that will help in law school wherever I am admitted.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:54 pm

I encourage you to take only easy classes whenever you have a choice. Start collecting those A's. The more palatable your GPA is, the more success you will have as a splitter. Really shoot for getting above those 25 percentiles if you can.

prelawTN · Post by **prelawTN** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:07 pm

Dirigo wrote:I encourage you to take only easy classes whenever you have a choice. Start collecting those A's.

Yeah, A's are definitely my best friend right now. That and doing as well on the LSAT as I'm capable of doing, which I should do because I'm a good test taker, even one of those freaks that enjoys taking them, and I'm consistently improving with every practice test.

TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:23 pm

If you can get into the mid 3's, you're not even that much of a splitter. A 3.5 is certainly not the floor of Vandy or UVA with the right LSAT. If you land in the 170s, you'll get into some good schools with money.

laurvb · Post by **laurvb** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:00 pm

Although having it on your resume alone might not be overly beneficial, maybe if you got a decent recommendation from a partner at one of the firms it could work in your favor. I was in a similar situation and one of the attorneys at the firm I worked at noted that they hoped to hire me as an associate after I graduated law school in their letter. Regardless of what your goals are after graduation, schools are obviously looking to boost their employment numbers and it could work to your advantage.

I got pretty decent offers and had an admissions dean note my "strong application" even though I had a below-median GPA. When I looked surprised, he laughed and told me not to sell myself short because of my performance in Astronomy 101 my first year of college. (My GPA increased drastically, but my first year wrecked my cumulative)

Though not all schools are the same, I figured I'd share my experiences to keep you motivated!

prelawTN · Post by **prelawTN** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:32 pm

Spanish my GPA getting into the mid-3's would require repeating several courses I did poorly in and replacing with A's...on that note, does anyone know exactly how the LSAC considers repeated grades? The info I've read was somewhat dubious and seemed to say that of the school throws out the first grade on determining GPA that so too will the LSAC but I'm unsure

laurvb that's an interesting angle. I will likely have rec's from the attorney's I worked for (both firms are small, only 2/3 attorneys each so the name on each front door will be writing the rec's) as well as a former State SC Justice that's a friend of the family.

Thanks to all involved for the help. I've kind of immersed myself in law school info since really buckling down to see what I'm capable of doing. Any bit of knowledge helps

AReasonableMan · Post by **AReasonableMan** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:40 pm

prelawTN wrote: Spanish my GPA getting into the mid-3's would require repeating several courses I did poorly in and replacing with A's...on that note, does anyone know exactly how the LSAC considers repeated grades? The info I've read was somewhat dubious and seemed to say that of the school throws out the first grade on determining GPA that so too will the LSAC but I'm unsure

laurvb that's an interesting angle. I will likely have rec's from the attorney's I worked for (both firms are small, only 2/3 attorneys each so the name on each front door will be writing the rec's) as well as a former State SC Justice that's a friend of the family.

Thanks to all involved for the help. I've kind of immersed myself in law school info since really buckling down to see what I'm capable of doing. Any bit of knowledge helps

I think they average them, but if you call they will tell you.

malleus discentium · Post by **malleus discentium** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:45 pm

prelawTN wrote: Spanish my GPA getting into the mid-3's would require repeating several courses I did poorly in and replacing with A's...on that note, does anyone know exactly how the LSAC considers repeated grades? The info I've read was somewhat dubious and seemed to say that of the school throws out the first grade on determining GPA that so too will the LSAC but I'm unsure

laurvb that's an interesting angle. I will likely have rec's from the attorney's I worked for (both firms are small, only 2/3 attorneys each so the name on each front door will be writing the rec's) as well as a former State SC Justice that's a friend of the family.

Thanks to all involved for the help. I've kind of immersed myself in law school info since really buckling down to see what I'm capable of doing. Any bit of knowledge helps

Insofar as schools care about LORs they want academic ones, not professional ones. Unless the justice knows you very well and can speak meaningfully to your academic ability, that LOR is the quintessential useless letter.
The LSAC considers all grades, even if you retook the class and your school did not consider it in calculating your GPA. So if you failed Calculus 1 and then retook and got an A, they will calculate that as an F and and A. If your UG actually deleted the prior grade from your transcript (rare) then the A alone will be used.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:47 pm

prelawTN wrote: Spanish my GPA getting into the mid-3's would require repeating several courses I did poorly in and replacing with A's...on that note, does anyone know exactly how the LSAC considers repeated grades? The info I've read was somewhat dubious and seemed to say that of the school throws out the first grade on determining GPA that so too will the LSAC but I'm unsure

laurvb that's an interesting angle. I will likely have rec's from the attorney's I worked for (both firms are small, only 2/3 attorneys each so the name on each front door will be writing the rec's) as well as a former State SC Justice that's a friend of the family.

Thanks to all involved for the help. I've kind of immersed myself in law school info since really buckling down to see what I'm capable of doing. Any bit of knowledge helps

Don't bother with the state Supreme Court judge letter of rec. Ideally your letters will be all academic/from professors but if you want do one from a professor and one from one of your supervisors maybe that's ok. But the family friend letter of rec won't do anything for you and will likely hurt you if you don't have any from professors who taught you.

TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:00 pm

prelawTN wrote: Spanish my GPA getting into the mid-3's would require repeating several courses I did poorly in and replacing with A's...on that note, does anyone know exactly how the LSAC considers repeated grades? The info I've read was somewhat dubious and seemed to say that of the school throws out the first grade on determining GPA that so too will the LSAC but I'm unsure

I believe it depends on how the school codes it. If they completely wipe the prior grade, you're good. Otherwise, LSAC will just count both.

By the way, just a word of general caution as you explore things: law school at full sticker price is insane. Unless you have rich parents or the GI Bill or something like that, don't aim to just get in to a good school. You need to get in with enough scholarship money that attending becomes a prudent decision. Just keep that in mind as you play with numbers and study for the LSAT.

andreewop · Post by **andreewop** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:16 pm

hello
you are welcome to top-law schools forums

.....................

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:25 pm

andreewop wrote:hello
you are welcome to top-law schools forums

.....................

Yeah. This.

prelawTN · Post by **prelawTN** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:33 pm

So I've gathered that having rec's from, say my poli sci professors (there's only 2 whose courses I take regularly) would be more beneficial than from my bosses at the firms I've worked for?

Also, re the state SC Justice, he's also an adjunct prof at Vandy so I'd imagine it'd be of some help regardless of his inability to speak to what I've done in the classroom, correct or no?

And to clarify, I reference Vandy a lot because I really want to stay in Tennessee for school and want to do judicial clerkships after so Vandy is the de facto choice and more than that, I love Nashville and have lived there before and when I did, I worked on 16th ave, about 2/3 blocks from Vandy's campus and just absolute love the West End/Music Row/Gulch area. So Vandy is not only the logical choice but also in the best area of my dream city and by virtue of that, my dream school.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:37 pm

prelawTN wrote:So I've gathered that having rec's from, say my poli sci professors (there's only 2 whose courses I take regularly) would be more beneficial than from my bosses at the firms I've worked for?

Also, re the state SC Justice, he's also an adjunct prof at Vandy so I'd imagine it'd be of some help regardless of his inability to speak to what I've done in the classroom, correct or no?

Schools strongly prefer (and many require) at least 2 ACADEMIC LORs, so definitely get your professors to each write one for you.
On top of those two, go ham with the employer LORs. Definitely won't hurt you as long as they write good things.

MistakenGenius · Post by **MistakenGenius** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:51 pm

Post removed.

prelawTN · Post by **prelawTN** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:03 am

MistakenGenius wrote: I apologize OP, I just hate people who shoot their mouths off when they don't have a clue what they're talking about. Bad advice is very damaging. As far as your question, no, that kind of work experience is not going to help you if you don't have the numbers. Right now, your law school chances are going to entirely depend on your GPA and LSAT. Work on getting your GPA up as high as possible. If you get your GPA up into the 3.3 range and hit that 170, you'll still have some very nice offers and will probably land all three of the schools you mentioned.

No apologies needed. I'm not much a fan of idiots either. But yeah, the 3.3 thing is basically straight A's from now until graduation as well as likely taking an additional semester to add more total grades to outweigh the previous years. Something like 2.8-3.1 is more realistic unfortunately

MistakenGenius · Post by **MistakenGenius** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:32 am

Post removed.

TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:27 am

prelawTN wrote:And to clarify, I reference Vandy a lot because I really want to stay in Tennessee for school and want to do judicial clerkships after so Vandy is the de facto choice and more than that, I love Nashville and have lived there before and when I did, I worked on 16th ave, about 2/3 blocks from Vandy's campus and just absolute love the West End/Music Row/Gulch area. So Vandy is not only the logical choice but also in the best area of my dream city and by virtue of that, my dream school.

Totally understand. I would've loved to spend three years in Nashville, and Vandy seems like a great school. If you do hit 170, even with a 3.0 you're probably going to get in.

However, I still encourage you to get your GPA as high as possible for scholarship money. Vanderbilt is a great school, no doubt. But don't pay sticker price to go there.

MistakenGenius wrote:
You're a fucking idiot. Work experience is any time you've worked full-time. It doesn't matter if you've graduated or not. In my experience, schools and firms are more impressed by full-time work experience done alongside a full academic workload. Why run your mouth if you are just going to spout bullshit?

Whoa there. Settle down, Francis.

AReasonableMan · Post by **AReasonableMan** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:37 am

MistakenGenius wrote:
zoomzoom88 wrote:
prelawTN wrote:By the fall of 2016, the year I'll be attending law school, I'll have about 3 years of work experience at various law firms. I'm just curious as to whether that will help or not. Right now, my GPA is rather low (I didn't start seriously considering law school until this past semester) but I'm hoping to get it into the low to mid 3's by graduation. Given that this may be easier said than done, schools like Wash U and Alabama will still look at me given my LSAT score will be rather high (I'm practicing in the mid 170's, tentatively taking it officially in February). Info on the various schools I have a chance at given my numbers is fairly widespread so I don't need advice on that in particular, nor do I need reminding that I shot myself in the foot with my first few semesters. What I'm looking for is anyone with genuine knowledge of whether real world law firm experience is actually very beneficial or not and if so, is it beneficial enough that schools like Vandy or Texas or even UVA will give me a look even though my GPA is likely to be at each of their floors.

it is not considered true WE if it isn't post graduation.
You're a fucking idiot. Work experience is any time you've worked full-time. It doesn't matter if you've graduated or not. In my experience, schools and firms are more impressed by full-time work experience done alongside a full academic workload. Why run your mouth if you are just going to spout bullshit?

I apologize OP, I just hate people who shoot their mouths off when they don't have a clue what they're talking about. Bad advice is very damaging. As far as your question, no, that kind of work experience is not going to help you if you don't have the numbers. Right now, your law school chances are going to entirely depend on your GPA and LSAT. Work on getting your GPA up as high as possible. If you get your GPA up into the 3.3 range and hit that 170, you'll still have some very nice offers and will probably land all three of the schools you mentioned.

Regardless of who is an idiot and who is not, this is about the most common pre-law school job. It in no way will make OP stand out. If it's not big law, it's even less impressive. Paralegals in big law (I was not one) generally possess a number of impressive qualities (reliable, hardworking, smart).

dabigchina · Post by **dabigchina** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:09 am

MistakenGenius wrote:
You're a fucking idiot. Work experience is any time you've worked full-time. It doesn't matter if you've graduated or not. In my experience, schools and firms are more impressed by full-time work experience done alongside a full academic workload. Why run your mouth if you are just going to spout bullshit?

I apologize OP, I just hate people who shoot their mouths off when they don't have a clue what they're talking about. Bad advice is very damaging. As far as your question, no, that kind of work experience is not going to help you if you don't have the numbers. Right now, your law school chances are going to entirely depend on your GPA and LSAT. Work on getting your GPA up as high as possible. If you get your GPA up into the 3.3 range and hit that 170, you'll still have some very nice offers and will probably land all three of the schools you mentioned.

I think when people talk about w/e on this forum, they are talking about post undergrad work experience. You're right in the technical sense of the term but Northwestern is not going to roll out the red carpet because OP interned as a paralegal for 3 years, for example.

a 3.3 with a 170+ is fine for lower T14, OP. Just shoot for that. That's more or less what I have and I'm doing ok.