Gunning for Texas biglaw w/no ties? Forum

[slumbercucumber]

.

[AllDangle]

PM me

[filibuster]

where do you go to law school? Answer that question and then do really well in skool. Otherwise bid new york, you got no chance

[DaRascal]

You've gotta have ties if you want to be a lawyer. Can't wear sweater vests forever...

[Ti Malice]

If your fiancee's parents live in Texas, that registers as a tie (but better if she's your wife by then). Regardless, Texas -- or Houston, at least -- is not as insular as smaller secondary markets. School and grades will matter. My perspective may be a bit skewed, but I know people here at Y that got Houston BigLaw with no Texas ties whatsoever. I've heard of the same happening at S and H from friends at those schools.

[BigZuck]

If your fiancee's parents live in Texas, that registers as a tie (but better if she's your wife by then). Regardless, Texas -- or Houston, at least -- is not as insular as smaller secondary markets. School and grades will matter. My perspective may be a bit skewed, but I know people here at Y that got Houston BigLaw with no Texas ties whatsoever. I've heard of the same happening at S and H from friends at those schools.

I go to UT, but from what I have seen TX firms (including Houston) are super ties-conscious and the wife thing is nowhere near sufficient enough to overcome their suspicion of outsiders. I'm sure good grades (better than mine) would help overcome that though, and a H, Y, or S on your resume wouldn't hurt. I'm also just one dude, so grain of salt I guess.

[Moneytrees]

Big Zuck- do you think you can elaborate a bit more on just how important ties are at UT? I have minimal ties Texas but was considering UT since it's relatively affordable and I have a couple good friends in Austin. Should potential applicants without ties even consider UT? Being ruled out for a job before I even start law school is a worry of mine.

[Tiago Splitter]

It definitely happens elsewhere in the T-14 but you'll need excellent grades. I'd recommend working in Texas during 1L summer to help your case.

You might be the type of person for whom paying extra for HYS is worth it.

[sublime]

..

[Attax]

I know someone at my T-20 w/ no Texas ties, worked there 1L summer, and is going to a big firm there. It is doable, but I wouldn't count on it.


ETA: T20 is not UT

Do you know where they fall in things? I'd imagine they'd need to be top 5-10%, but may be wrong and merely speculative.

[sublime]

..

[Attax]

I know someone at my T-20 w/ no Texas ties, worked there 1L summer, and is going to a big firm there. It is doable, but I wouldn't count on it.


ETA: T20 is not UT

Do you know where they fall in things? I'd imagine they'd need to be top 5-10%, but may be wrong and merely speculative.

Know they aren't top 10%, feeling was 15-20ish.

Interesting. Thanks for the data!

[BigZuck]

Big Zuck- do you think you can elaborate a bit more on just how important ties are at UT? I have minimal ties Texas but was considering UT since it's relatively affordable and I have a couple good friends in Austin. Should potential applicants without ties even consider UT? Being ruled out for a job before I even start law school is a worry of mine.

I wouldn't say that you should never consider UT with weak/non-existent TX ties. I'm just saying you need to tread carefully. I think what TI said is totally fair, I just felt compelled to say what I did just because I wouldn't want anyone to think "Oh, GF from Texas, NBD, EZ game." I know that's not what TI said, I was just trying to reiterate that people need to know exactly what they're getting into and not be flippant when making a choice like that.

I am not a Texan. I do have strong TX ties however. And by and large I struggled through OCI. I'm happy with where I ended up but it was a lot rougher than I expected. To be fair, there could have been things besides my non-Texanness that hurt me. Like I said, grades weren't amazing. No Law Review. And lets face it: I very well could be a worse interviewer than I think I am, or my personality could suck more than I think it does. It's really hard to be objective about all that. If you're interested in hearing more of my thoughts on my own struggles feel free to PM me.

I think if you have weak TX ties but attend UT you have to make your peace with a few things: first, you need good grades. As a rough guide, I would say top 1/3, minimum. It also needs to be cheap (like, no more than 100K but that's probably being generous). It's not easy to get grades in the top 3rd so your debt needs to be manageable in the (fairly likely) scenario that you strike out. You also need to really craft a story for why you want TX. Be passionate. Texas is the only market for you. You can't fathom living anywhere else. Don't just say "Well, I like BBQ and GF's aunt lives here, NBD gimme a job." You need to gush and be believeable. If you're willing to do all that and willing to roll the dice and be ok if it doesn't work out (not just ok in your mind, but you can objectively say you'll be ok financially), then by all means go for it.

In general, if someone wants big law I would urge them to go to a T14 and target NYC, unless they have strong ties to another market where big law exists, in which case if they have the grades they can target that market and ideally NYC as a backup. There is no backup at UT- to get NYC or big law in other markets you'll probably need quite good grades, at least good enough grades to get TX big law.

Anyway this is all just my thoughts, again take it with the appropriate heaping of salt.

[McAvoy]

Big Zuck- do you think you can elaborate a bit more on just how important ties are at UT? I have minimal ties Texas but was considering UT since it's relatively affordable and I have a couple good friends in Austin. Should potential applicants without ties even consider UT? Being ruled out for a job before I even start law school is a worry of mine.

I wouldn't say that you should never consider UT with weak/non-existent TX ties. I'm just saying you need to tread carefully. I think what TI said is totally fair, I just felt compelled to say what I did just because I wouldn't want anyone to think "Oh, GF from Texas, NBD, EZ game." I know that's not what TI said, I was just trying to reiterate that people need to know exactly what they're getting into and not be flippant when making a choice like that.

I am not a Texan. I do have strong TX ties however. And by and large I struggled through OCI. I'm happy with where I ended up but it was a lot rougher than I expected. To be fair, there could have been things besides my non-Texanness that hurt me. Like I said, grades weren't amazing. No Law Review. And lets face it: I very well could be a worse interviewer than I think I am, or my personality could suck more than I think it does. It's really hard to be objective about all that. If you're interested in hearing more of my thoughts on my own struggles feel free to PM me.

I think if you have weak TX ties but attend UT you have to make your peace with a few things: first, you need good grades. As a rough guide, I would say top 1/3, minimum. It also needs to be cheap (like, no more than 100K but that's probably being generous). It's not easy to get grades in the top 3rd so your debt needs to be manageable in the (fairly likely) scenario that you strike out. You also need to really craft a story for why you want TX. Be passionate. Texas is the only market for you. You can't fathom living anywhere else. Don't just say "Well, I like BBQ and GF's aunt lives here, NBD gimme a job." You need to gush and be believeable. If you're willing to do all that and willing to roll the dice and be ok if it doesn't work out (not just ok in your mind, but you can objectively say you'll be ok financially), then by all means go for it.

In general, if someone wants big law I would urge them to go to a T14 and target NYC, unless they have strong ties to another market where big law exists, in which case if they have the grades they can target that market and ideally NYC as a backup. There is no backup at UT- to get NYC or big law in other markets you'll probably need quite good grades, at least good enough grades to get TX big law.

Anyway this is all just my thoughts, again take it with the appropriate heaping of salt.

Listen to BZ here.

[Mack.Hambleton]

take $$$ at Duke/UVA or $ at Chicago.

[Moneytrees]

Big Zuck- do you think you can elaborate a bit more on just how important ties are at UT? I have minimal ties Texas but was considering UT since it's relatively affordable and I have a couple good friends in Austin. Should potential applicants without ties even consider UT? Being ruled out for a job before I even start law school is a worry of mine.

I wouldn't say that you should never consider UT with weak/non-existent TX ties. I'm just saying you need to tread carefully. I think what TI said is totally fair, I just felt compelled to say what I did just because I wouldn't want anyone to think "Oh, GF from Texas, NBD, EZ game." I know that's not what TI said, I was just trying to reiterate that people need to know exactly what they're getting into and not be flippant when making a choice like that.

I am not a Texan. I do have strong TX ties however. And by and large I struggled through OCI. I'm happy with where I ended up but it was a lot rougher than I expected. To be fair, there could have been things besides my non-Texanness that hurt me. Like I said, grades weren't amazing. No Law Review. And lets face it: I very well could be a worse interviewer than I think I am, or my personality could suck more than I think it does. It's really hard to be objective about all that. If you're interested in hearing more of my thoughts on my own struggles feel free to PM me.

Very insightful. Thanks.
I think if you have weak TX ties but attend UT you have to make your peace with a few things: first, you need good grades. As a rough guide, I would say top 1/3, minimum. It also needs to be cheap (like, no more than 100K but that's probably being generous). It's not easy to get grades in the top 3rd so your debt needs to be manageable in the (fairly likely) scenario that you strike out. You also need to really craft a story for why you want TX. Be passionate. Texas is the only market for you. You can't fathom living anywhere else. Don't just say "Well, I like BBQ and GF's aunt lives here, NBD gimme a job." You need to gush and be believeable. If you're willing to do all that and willing to roll the dice and be ok if it doesn't work out (not just ok in your mind, but you can objectively say you'll be ok financially), then by all means go for it.

In general, if someone wants big law I would urge them to go to a T14 and target NYC, unless they have strong ties to another market where big law exists, in which case if they have the grades they can target that market and ideally NYC as a backup. There is no backup at UT- to get NYC or big law in other markets you'll probably need quite good grades, at least good enough grades to get TX big law.

Anyway this is all just my thoughts, again take it with the appropriate heaping of salt.

[Ti Malice]

If your fiancee's parents live in Texas, that registers as a tie (but better if she's your wife by then). Regardless, Texas -- or Houston, at least -- is not as insular as smaller secondary markets. School and grades will matter. My perspective may be a bit skewed, but I know people here at Y that got Houston BigLaw with no Texas ties whatsoever. I've heard of the same happening at S and H from friends at those schools.

I go to UT, but from what I have seen TX firms (including Houston) are super ties-conscious and the wife thing is nowhere near sufficient enough to overcome their suspicion of outsiders. I'm sure good grades (better than mine) would help overcome that though, and a H, Y, or S on your resume wouldn't hurt. I'm also just one dude, so grain of salt I guess.

I'm surprised to hear that having a Texan wife wouldn't count for much with the top Houston firms, but I will definitely defer to you on all things Texas BigLaw-related. I'm clearly dealing with a very limited sample of presumably non-representative outcomes.

[arklaw13]

I didn't find ties to be that important for some firms. At Vandy, Locke Lord Houston had 5 people accept callbacks that I know of. The breakdown of the home state of people who went to the callbacks is: AR, MN, NJ, NY (none of whom went to UG or worked in TX at any point), and GA (who went to UG in Houston and worked there 1L). So only one person who had any decent connection to Houston, the rest had none that I know of. And only one of us had grades within top 20%. Who knows how that will translate into offers, but I doubt LL is going to call people back just to ding them for lack of ties.

Granted, this is only one firm, so take it for what you will.