CUNY law school Forum

[ladyteeks]

Thoughts and advice about CUNY Law School for someone who has an interest in Immigration law.

[should-i-do-it]

Retake bro

[whitespider]

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... jobs/2013/

0% of all graduates obtained their jobs through On Campus Interviews (OCI).
48.6% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.

[McAvoy]

Under no circumstances should you consider going there.

Retake.

[PepperJack]

Going slightly against the grain - at slightly under 42k for the entire degree without any form of scholarship, CUNY is not that bad compared to other TT-TTTT schools. One thing to consider is that between lost wages and the high cost of living in Flushing relative to most of the United States, you can easily be looking at over 100k with accruing interest upon graduation.

It's virtually 100% that you will not be getting big law, and not even law review would change that. So you cannot bank on being able to pay this debt off in 5 years or less. It 100% that won't happen. That said:

1.) You won't be making six-figures out of school in immigration out of any law school. These are predominately going to be small firms with "every day people" as clients.

2.) Your realistic best case outcome is a job with a small immigration firm paying you about 40k a year.

3.) If you are paying sticker you absolutely must be a NY resident, and also absolutely must be able to live at home for free.

4.) You probably have to be able to speak Spanish, Arabic, Russian, or another language that many of your clients will speak in order to be competitive for such a 40k job. Many people choosing immigration do so, because they're from an immigrant community, and want to help others in the community. From a business perspective, they're much more useful than someone who only speaks fluent English. Credentials are less important in this area, because you're not dealing with a client base as likely to know the t-14 and TTT distinction.

I know someone who has a very successful solo practice in NYC. One perk is that because he is well known in the Russian community, he has a lot of business coming in from successful Russian businessman litigating a matter that has nothing to do with immigration law.

Your ideal outcome would be to get this type of non-prestigious position, work for a half decade, and ultimately be able to start your own practice. You should realize you have a coin flip chance of never getting a paid legal position. One difference between CUNY and Hofstra, St. John's, Touro, and NYSL is that the current sticker price reflects the fact that it's 0% you'll get a prestigious job out of school. Assuming you have free room and board, one could argue that sticker at CUNY is a better investment for some than a sticker investment at a t-14.

[McAvoy]

Going slightly against the grain - at slightly under 42k for the entire degree without any form of scholarship, CUNY is not that bad compared to other TT-TTTT schools. One thing to consider is that between lost wages and the high cost of living in Flushing relative to most of the United States, you can easily be looking at over 100k with accruing interest upon graduation.

It's virtually 100% that you will not be getting big law, and not even law review would change that. So you cannot bank on being able to pay this debt off in 5 years or less. It 100% that won't happen. That said:

1.) You won't be making six-figures out of school in immigration out of any law school. These are predominately going to be small firms with "every day people" as clients.

2.) Your realistic best case outcome is a job with a small immigration firm paying you about 40k a year.

3.) If you are paying sticker you absolutely must be a NY resident, and also absolutely must be able to live at home for free.

4.) You probably have to be able to speak Spanish, Arabic, Russian, or another language that many of your clients will speak in order to be competitive for such a 40k job. Many people choosing immigration do so, because they're from an immigrant community, and want to help others in the community. From a business perspective, they're much more useful than someone who only speaks fluent English. Credentials are less important in this area, because you're not dealing with a client base as likely to know the t-14 and TTT distinction.

I know someone who has a very successful solo practice in NYC. One perk is that because he is well known in the Russian community, he has a lot of business coming in from successful Russian businessman litigating a matter that has nothing to do with immigration law.

Your ideal outcome would be to get this type of non-prestigious position, work for a half decade, and ultimately be able to start your own practice. You should realize you have a coin flip chance of never getting a paid legal position. One difference between CUNY and Hofstra, St. John's, Touro, and NYSL is that the current sticker price reflects the fact that it's 0% you'll get a prestigious job out of school. Assuming you have free room and board, one could argue that sticker at CUNY is a better investment for some than a sticker investment at a t-14.

ETA You're right. Death by plunger up the butt > death by chainsaw

[Rigo]

One thing to consider is that between lost wages and the high cost of living in Flushing...

The law school moved to Long Island City.

Assuming you have free room and board, one could argue that sticker at CUNY is a better investment for some than a sticker investment at a t-14.

No.

[HYSorBust3]

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... jobs/2013/

0% of all graduates obtained their jobs through On Campus Interviews (OCI).
48.6% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs.

Damn

[TheSpanishMain]

I can imagine circumstances in which this wouldn't be a completely awful decision, but they're going to apply to a tiny percentage of people: if you're going for free (as in, absolutely free...full ride scholarship, living with family/spouse) and are fluent (as in, fluency. not "I can order a beer and ask where the bathroom is") in a foreign language used by a large immigrant community, this MIGHT be worth a shot.

[Moneytrees]

Don't go to CUNY. Retake the LSAT, do well, and get a full ride to a reputable school. Schools are handing out tons of scholarship money due to declining apps.

[PattyCake]

I go to CUNY. Chose it over full rides at higher-ranked schools. Happy to answer questions.

[checkers]

I go to CUNY. Chose it over full rides at higher-ranked schools. Happy to answer questions.

How much higher? Why?

[PattyCake]

I go to CUNY. Chose it over full rides at higher-ranked schools. Happy to answer questions.

How much higher? Why?

Highest-ranked full ride was somewhere around 50-55th, I forget the exact rank.

Because I knew 100% that I only want to do public interest law. I have zero interest in anything else, and no other school in the country focuses on PI like CUNY. Period.

[checkers]

I go to CUNY. Chose it over full rides at higher-ranked schools. Happy to answer questions.

How much higher? Why?

Highest-ranked full ride was somewhere around 50-55th, I forget the exact rank.

So low enough that it doesn't really matter. Fair enough.

...no other school in the country focuses on PI like CUNY. Period.

I'm not a PI guy, I'm so not going to argue, but I'm sure some others might.

Thanks for the response. How are you liking it? Any regrets?

[03152016]

she got hofstra full boat 162/2.8
hofstra is ranked 135, cuny is unranked

both have comparable job outcomes (horrifying)

cuny does have a reputation for pi
pretty big chunk of those employed end up in pd/legal aid
fair amount state clerk or gov't

problem is that overall lt/ft/jd is 49% and underemployment is 37%
solid chunk end up in non-jd, another solid chunk ends up short-term/part-time, solid chunk ends up unemployed (the 10% school-funded keeps it to 20%)

when the job prospects are that bad, it's ridiculous to say that no school does pi like cuny
esp when one of the best schools for pi in the country is located only 4 miles southwest

[PattyCake]

I go to CUNY. Chose it over full rides at higher-ranked schools. Happy to answer questions.

How much higher? Why?

Highest-ranked full ride was somewhere around 50-55th, I forget the exact rank.

So low enough that it doesn't really matter. Fair enough.

...no other school in the country focuses on PI like CUNY. Period.

I'm not a PI guy, I'm so not going to argue, but I'm sure some others might.

Thanks for the response. How are you liking it? Any regrets?

I say that because our entire curriculum is keyed to PI. Everything is viewed through that lens. I don't know of a single classmate who isn't dedicated to an area of PI law for personal reasons. Many of them applied only to CUNY and nowhere else for that reason. And we also have students who did their undergrad at Ivy's, btw (not me, admittedly). On the flip side, if you're NOT interested in PI, I'd probably say don't go here. I could see it being a really annoying environment for someone interested in any other kind of practice.

I absolutely love it. Classes are interesting and fun, usually even if you're being cold-called. Our professors always make time for us and are helpful at office hours. There's no mandatory curve, so competition is minimal - everyone helps each other and we all share materials. Don't mistake me, people get lousy grades, but if you earn an A you get it. That takes a lot of pressure off.

Would it be better to focus on PI at Yale or Harvard? Sure. I wasn't getting into either, though. And while they both have excellent PI programs of study, neither is exclusively PI. Our core doctrinal classes are taught from a PI perspective. Also our clinics are top notch, and we work with great organizations that often hire our students later.

[PattyCake]

she got hofstra full boat 162/2.8
hofstra is ranked 135, cuny is unranked

both have comparable job outcomes (horrifying)

cuny does have a reputation for pi
pretty big chunk of those employed end up in pd/legal aid
fair amount state clerk or gov't

problem is that overall lt/ft/jd is 49% and underemployment is 37%
solid chunk end up in non-jd, another solid chunk ends up short-term/part-time, solid chunk ends up unemployed (the 10% school-funded keeps it to 20%)

when the job prospects are that bad, it's ridiculous to say that no school does pi like cuny
esp when one of the best schools for pi in the country is located only 4 miles southwest

I got full and almost-full rides at much higher-ranked schools than Hofstra. And you should consider reporting when you look at those statistics. We get responses from almost all of our students, other schools don't necessarily try very hard to get data.

[03152016]

to your first post:

no one is denying that cuny has a reputation for pi

but you've only mentioned one thing relevant to pi outcomes – that cuny works with great pi orgs that hire from cuny
the same could be said about any school with a pi reputation

talk about the pi fellowships, pi summer funding, placement in top pi jobs, pi job fairs, lrap programs for pi people

to your second post:

are you serious about reporting?
who told you that? the school?
are you aware of aba standard 509?
reporting has completely changed since 2010, what schools have low numbers of students reporting?

[03152016]

are you referring to nalp?
i didn't refer to any nalp statistics?

also, is this your lsn?: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/PattyCake

[03152016]

talk about the pi fellowships, pi summer funding, placement in top pi jobs, pi job fairs, lrap programs for pi people

these + outcomes are important factors for pi gunners to consider
everything else mentioned above is fluff

again, no one is taking anything away from cuny's pi reputation
but it's not a good school
and it's nowhere near the best school for pi
and isn't even the best school for pi within a 5 mile radius

[checkers]

Sorry, I forgot this thread started as a 0L asking for advice. Brut is right, CUNY is objectively a bad decision if you're concerned about being employed (why else would you go?). I was just curious about the reasoning and experience of someone who attends, but didn't mean to derail or suggest that any of that should be given consideration in the face of the hard numbers on the school.

[PattyCake]

are you referring to nalp?
i didn't refer to any nalp statistics?

also, is this your lsn?: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/PattyCake

Yup, that's me. I'm in a masters program, too - I got busy and stopped updating. A handful of my scholarships got bumped way up when I sent emails to withdraw.

[PattyCake]

talk about the pi fellowships, pi summer funding, placement in top pi jobs, pi job fairs, lrap programs for pi people

these + outcomes are important factors for pi gunners to consider
everything else mentioned above is fluff

again, no one is taking anything away from cuny's pi reputation
but it's not a good school
and it's nowhere near the best school for pi
and isn't even the best school for pi within a 5 mile radius

Ok, if you say so.

[03152016]

fine

state a single positive fact about cuny that would make it a reasonable choice for pi gunners

[03152016]

inb4 another snarky non-response