Is NYU admission process "holistic"? Any shot with a 168? Forum

[RobertoReNu]

I am an international student educated in France, with a undergrad GPA performance of "Above Average" and a 168 LSAT score.

NYU is definitely my dream school. I have various international experience, including working for United Nations, peace organizations in Egypt, etc. Being able to speak four languages might be another soft for international law (although I know it barely matters...) And I believe I can write a really compelling "Why NYU" essay. NYU basically has the best international law faculty in the states, so that's the reason why I want to attend NYU, even at sticker. But do you think I stand any chance of being admitted through ED with a 168? If not, what score will basically make me a lock with ED? Thanks in advance!

[JamMasterJ]

No. You don't have an LSAC GPA so your only chance is a 171+ lsat score

[ymmv]

I am an international student educated in France, with a undergrad GPA performance of "Above Average" and a 168 LSAT score.

NYU is definitely my dream school. I have various international experience, including working for United Nations, peace organizations in Egypt, etc. Being able to speak four languages might be another soft for international law (although I know it barely matters...) And I believe I can write a really compelling "Why NYU" essay. NYU basically has the best international law faculty in the states, so that's the reason why I want to attend NYU, even at sticker. But do you think I stand any chance of being admitted through ED with a 168? If not, what score will basically make me a lock with ED? Thanks in advance!

What do you think international law is?

[RobertoReNu]

No. You don't have an LSAC GPA so your only chance is a 171+ lsat score

For RD or ED?

[RobertoReNu]

What do you think international law is?

Are you trying to say there is no such thing as international law or international law is not what I expect it to be? Because either way, I did not ask anything about this...

[03152016]

are you really rich or something

[ymmv]

What do you think international law is?

Are you trying to say there is no such thing as international law or international law is not what I expect it to be? Because either way, I did not ask anything about this...

I'm saying that going to NYU "even at sticker" because of the perceived superiority of their "international law" faculty would probably top a short list of the most horrifically uninformed reasons to take on $300k debt. This is a terrible enough idea to be worth derailing your thread attempt over.

Trust me, you'll thank me and everyone else on TLS someday for crushing this notion early on.

[RobertoReNu]

I'm saying that going to NYU "even at sticker" because of the perceived superiority of their "international law" faculty would probably top a short list of the most horrifically uninformed reasons to take on $300k debt. This is a terrible enough idea to be worth derailing your thread attempt over.

Trust me, you'll thank me and everyone else on TLS someday for crushing this notion early on.

Oh sorry my bad, I thought you meant... never mind. I understand what you mean and I really appreciate it. Good international law faculty is definitely one of the important reasons why I want to choose NYU, but there are definitely other reasons too, among which the most important one is probably the biglaw placement. Things are kinda different for us since if we ever want to stay in the states, visa is a serious issue to consider. Working for a V10 firm will at least give us a better chance of finding firms who are willing to sponsor H-1B or even employment green card.

are you really rich or something

No... but I do understand that with an "Above Average", the best law schools I can possibly get in are Columbia/NYU. They both have great biglaw placements. Ivy league means nothing to me, and NYU has better int'l law, that's the reason why I'm leaning towards NYU...

[03152016]

so if you're not rich, does that mean you will be taking out loans to finance your education?
if so, why are you willing to pay sticker?

[RobertoReNu]

so if you're not rich, does that mean you will be taking out loans to finance your education?
if so, why are you willing to pay sticker?

my savings now can support my education for about 1.5 years, which means that'll leave me around $120-150k loans. Reasons why I am willing to pay sticker: int'l students don't get a lot of money from t14 law schools, around 60k tops (lower t14 probably), but that won't have as good placement as NYU/CLS. I reckon I should pay a little bit more for these three years and probably have a better job search situation upon graduation.

[Hand]

[twenty]

It's kind of a moot point since you won't get in with a 168 anyway, but if NYU at sticker is a bad idea for Americans, it's a tremendously bad idea for international students. As you pointed out, it will be harder to get a job when employers realize they have to sponsor your visa, but beyond that, you won't have access to federal loans and will have to take out private loans - which means you lose access to ITE-necessities like PAYE.

When you say you want to do international law, but then point to a V10 when you're talking about employers that will sponsor an H-1B. You do realize that a V10 is about as far away as you can get from "international law", right?

[RobertoReNu]

It's kind of a moot point since you won't get in with a 168 anyway, but if NYU at sticker is a bad idea for Americans, it's a tremendously bad idea for international students. As you pointed out, it will be harder to get a job when employers realize they have to sponsor your visa, but beyond that, you won't have access to federal loans and will have to take out private loans - which means you lose access to ITE-necessities like PAYE.

When you say you want to do international law, but then point to a V10 when you're talking about employers that will sponsor an H-1B. You do realize that a V10 is about as far away as you can get from "international law", right?

After working with officials in UN and HRW, I came to understand that most lawyers that work for international organizations, doing international law, had worked for law firms for couple of years to help them build better fundamentals in legal field. And that's exactly what I am planning on doing.

But thank you for pointing out that "when employers realize they have to sponsor your visa, it will be harder to get a job". I will definitely take that into consideration.

[Tiago Splitter]

For better or worse NYU might be the least holistic law school in the country, at least when it comes to admissions (they have a number of full ride scholarships that they offer based on other factors.) You just have to bump that LSAT up a few points.

[ravel]

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[FSK]

I don't understand why anyone would be audacious enough to question your understanding of international law, your preference for a school, or your ability to pay the NYU tuition. Nobody seems to be directly answering your question.

Because many of us made, or have watched others make, stupid choices at the stage he is currently act.

The fact is that there are ~0 jobs in "international law." His posts demonstrates he clearly does not understand this. People want him to understand that.

An early person essentially answered he needs to retake, too, which is TCR here.

[RobertoReNu]

Because many of us made, or have watched others make, stupid choices at the stage he is currently act.

The fact is that there are ~0 jobs in "international law." His posts demonstrates he clearly does not understand this. People want him to understand that.

An early person essentially answered he needs to retake, too, which is TCR here.

Thank you, I really appreciate every answer here. I may have not made myself quite clear in the post. What I meant by "international law" was not merely something general like "public international law"/"international human rights law". Rather, since my undergrad major is econ, I will most likely practice international trade/anti-trust, etc. NYU has Daniel Rubinfeld, Alan Sykes, Eleanor Fox, all of them are the scholars I genuinely wanna work with.

Anyway, above all, I understand why people are saying I am not making an informed decision for choosing international law, but I do have some reasons. But still, I'm retaking LSAT in Sep, hoping I can reach a 172+ (a score over 75% might be enough??).. Thanks everyone again!

[Skool]

Wait, why is it that having no GPA means the only shot at NYU is an above median LSAT? And that any thing less than median is an auto ding?

I would think this would be kind of an unusual circumstance that there isn't enough data to say definitively one way or the other. Why do people think this?

Also, as discussed above, international law is a pipe dream. I know an attorney who went to school thinking of being an international lawyer. She ended up going for any public interest job she could get. It's worked out ok for her, but she's pretty much never going to practice international law, whatever that is. I know you've got some kind of intermediate big law dream, but word to the wise, huh?

[Hand]

[lapolicia]

International law means something different in Europe than what it means in the US. A lot of areas of the law that in the US are a normal part of a firm's domestic practice, such as antitrust, are considered international law in Europe because they are controlled through the EU in Brussels. There are plenty of jobs in these areas for European lawyers, so while his/her interest in international law sounds naive to Americans, in Europe its actually perfectly fine so long as he's not talking about public international law. To answer OP's question, you probably won't get in with a 168. Retake, and see if you can get scholarships at schools like Cornell unless finances are no problem for you.

[CocoSunshine]

My understanding is a JD program provides professional training instead of academic education. Whether the school is strong at a particular area really does not matter unless you are pursing a LLM/SJD degree.

Why do you think attending NYU will help your career in international law? I'd like to know the answer since "International Law" is my area of interest as well

[Hera17]

int'l students don't get a lot of money from t14 law schools, around 60k tops (lower t14 probably)

Hi guys, don't want to derail the thread, just wanted to query the above.

Is there truth to this? Do international students tend to get less money from the T14 than domestic students (on the basis that they're international)?

[twenty]

Nope. Keep in mind that international students will be seen as "at GPA median" so the LSAT becomes the most relevant factor.

[CocoSunshine]

Nope. Keep in mind that international students will be seen as "at GPA median" so the LSAT becomes the most relevant factor.

Do you mean "Above average" and "Superior" are basically treated the same, except in HYS?

[twenty]

As far as USNWR is concerned (and thus law school admissions committees), yes. HYS (particularly Y/S) have the luxury of turning down fully-qualified applicants as often as they'd like, and the first place they'll look at an international student is at their summary evaluation. But NYU won't care.