If I'm doing ROTC/military, do my other softs even matter? Forum

[sodomojo]

As a rising sophomore, I was involved in a couple student organizations last year, but I have zero work/internship experience.

So my question is, come admissions time, if I've done ROTC/military, will having any other average Joe softs (e.g. officer in student orgs, summer work experience/internships, etc.) even matter? I ask because while I'm aware that these average Joe softs won't help the typical applicant relative to one with superior numbers, I've read that literally having none can still hurt you. In other words, if I have the military soft, is it still necessary for me to find some work experience/internships as a undergrad?

EDIT: I'm NOT equating ROTC to te military. ROTC/military implies I'm in ROTC right now and the plan is to serve after graduating. I'm not implying ROTC is the same thing as military and I'm not simply doing ROTC as an undergrad then going into law school as a K-JD, and relying on my ROTC participation as a soft.

[malleus discentium]

Insofar as softs are going to matter, ROTC is not going to cut it. Softs do not generally matter, however, so long as you did something with your time in undergrad.

But you should be pursuing internships/jobs/other interesting uses of time not for the purpose of law school admissions but just because it's a good life plan for a whole pile of reasons.

[heythatslife]

Do other things that interest you, but not at the expense of sacrificing your GPA.

[McAvoy]

Insofar as softs are going to matter, ROTC is not going to cut it. Softs do not generally matter, however, so long as you did something with your time in undergrad.

But you should be pursuing internships/jobs/other interesting uses of time not for the purpose of law school admissions but just because it's a good life plan for a whole pile of reasons.

[Ramius]

As a rising sophomore, I was involved in a couple student organizations last year, but I have zero work/internship experience.

So my question is, come admissions time, if I've done ROTC/military, will having any other average Joe softs (e.g. officer in student orgs, summer work experience/internships, etc.) even matter? I ask because while I'm aware that these average Joe softs won't help the typical applicant relative to one with superior numbers, I've read that literally having none can still hurt you. In other words, if I have the military soft, is it still necessary for me to find some work experience/internships as a undergrad?

Assuming you actually serve in the military after ROTC, it'll help. If not, it won't help at all.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[pylon]

But you should be pursuing internships/jobs/other interesting uses of time not for the purpose of law school admissions but just because it's a good life plan for a whole pile of reasons.

+1

Also, from my understanding of your post it appears you will be applying as a K-JD? If that's the path you're set on taking, law schools are favoring work experience more and more over the past few cycles, and having part-time work during school or other jobs to add to your resume may help alleviate some of their concerns about a K-JD.

Edit: Not saying that having part-time work while studying or other jobs is equivalent to a job post graduating, just that it might help fill your resume.

[Ramius]

As a rising sophomore, I was involved in a couple student organizations last year, but I have zero work/internship experience.

So my question is, come admissions time, if I've done ROTC/military, will having any other average Joe softs (e.g. officer in student orgs, summer work experience/internships, etc.) even matter? I ask because while I'm aware that these average Joe softs won't help the typical applicant relative to one with superior numbers, I've read that literally having none can still hurt you. In other words, if I have the military soft, is it still necessary for me to find some work experience/internships as a undergrad?

Assuming you actually serve in the military after ROTC, it'll help. If not, it won't help at all.

I love how someone can say something with such conviction even though they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Sure, ROTC is not going to equal active military, but saying it won't help at all?

You're right, doing ROTC will be equivalent to any other UG club.

AD military>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ROTC participation.

ETA: if you're ROTC, you're required to serve AD since they're paying for your UG education.

[douchebaggery]

ETA: if you're ROTC, you're required to serve AD since they're paying for your UG education.

Not really, you can always go NG/Reserves.

[TheSpanishMain]

I love how someone can say something with such conviction even though they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Sure, ROTC is not going to equal active military, but saying it won't help at all?

He probably has a better sense of the military boost than most.

OP, I don't think being in ROTC will not help. At least, not really. It'll most likely be like being in any other student club. I was in ROTC and no one gave a shit. What people DID care about was my subsequent service in the real military.

Also, keep in mind if you receive an ROTC scholarship and go active duty, you will not earn the Post 9/11 GI Bill until you pay back your ROTC obligation.

Again, bear in mind that the military boost comes from actual military service. ROTC is not actual military service.

ETA: if you're ROTC, you're required to serve AD since they're paying for your UG education.

Depends on if you receive a scholarship and whether that scholarship requires you to go AD. Some don't.

[Ramius]

I love how someone can say something with such conviction even though they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Sure, ROTC is not going to equal active military, but saying it won't help at all?

He probably has a better sense of the military boost than most.

OP, I don't think being in ROTC will not help. At least, not really. It'll most likely be like being in any other student club. I was in ROTC and no one gave a shit. What people DID care about was my subsequent service in the real military.

Also, keep in mind if you receive an ROTC scholarship and go active duty, you will not earn the Post 9/11 GI Bill until you pay back your ROTC obligation.

Again, bear in mind that the military boost comes from actual military service. ROTC is not actual military service.

ETA: if you're ROTC, you're required to serve AD since they're paying for your UG education.

Depends on if you receive a scholarship and whether that scholarship requires you to go AD. Some don't.

You're right, I was assuming it was a scholarship ROTC position. Guess I don't really get someone doing ROTC without it, but it's definitely possible.

[sodomojo]

Sorry guys should've been clearer and left out the ROTC part. The plan is, of course, to go AD for 4 years after grad. As of now, I still have a year before I'd have to make a decision about signing a contract (so it'd be a 2-year UG scholarship if I choose to contract).

So assume that I serve for 4 years, would the military soft/officer positions in your average student organizations be solid enough softs? Or would ad comms still knock me (relative to a comparable applicant) for not having any work experience (besides military)/internship experience?

Also, keep in mind if you receive an ROTC scholarship and go active duty, you will not earn the Post 9/11 GI Bill until you pay back your ROTC obligation.

ROTC obligation? You mean the 3 years AD w/o scholarship & 4 years AD w/ scholarship, right? Just to make sure I get your point.

Also, from my understanding of your post it appears you will be applying as a K-JD? If that's the path you're set on taking, law schools are favoring work experience more and more over the past few cycles, and having part-time work during school or other jobs to add to your resume may help alleviate some of their concerns about a K-JD.

Serving in the military after grad would drop my K-JD tag, wouldn't it?

[ymmv]

if I'm doing ROTC/military, do other softs even matter?

Nope.

[MarineLaw]

ROTC is not the military. I would figure out what you want to do in life right after graduation: the military or law school. ROTC as a soft just does not matter. Real military service does. All of the former military officers at my school have done really well at OCI (and historically do very well). However, they served first. Law school was a subsequent goal, or was at least a subordinate goal while they served.

The fact that you are hedging on military service shows you probably don't need to be an officer trying to lead and motivate others to serve. Sounds like you are more invested in doing law school--go do that.

To specifically address your question, putting ROTC down on your resume would be fine, but don't try to equate it to real military service. At most its military career exploration. If you go active duty, you can probably limit your other undergrad activities. I think AD military is an attractive soft factor (one of maybe a handful). ROTC is worthless if it is used as anything other than an avenue to a commission.

Good luck.

[FairchildFLT]

ROTC is not the military. I would figure out what you want to do in life right after graduation: the military or law school. ROTC as a soft just does not matter. Real military service does. All of the former military officers at my school have done really well at OCI (and historically do very well). However, they served first. Law school was a subsequent goal, or was at least a subordinate goal while they served.

The fact that you are hedging on military service shows you probably don't need to be an officer trying to lead and motivate others to serve. Sounds like you are more invested in doing law school--go do that.

To specifically address your question, putting ROTC down on your resume would be fine, but don't try to equate it to real military service. At most its military career exploration. If you go active duty, you can probably limit your other undergrad activities. I think AD military is an attractive soft factor (one of maybe a handful). ROTC is worthless if it is used as anything other than an avenue to a commission.

Good luck.

Asking as an enlisted troop...you specifically stated officers did well...did you specifically mean to separate officer performance from enlisted performance at OCI?

As I read that question it reads somewhat dickish so I wasn't to clarify that I'm asking that with the genuine intent of knowing whether officers perform better than enlisted in OCI.

[sodomojo]

ROTC is not the military. I would figure out what you want to do in life right after graduation: the military or law school. ROTC as a soft just does not matter. Real military service does. All of the former military officers at my school have done really well at OCI (and historically do very well). However, they served first. Law school was a subsequent goal, or was at least a subordinate goal while they served.

The fact that you are hedging on military service shows you probably don't need to be an officer trying to lead and motivate others to serve. Sounds like you are more invested in doing law school--go do that.

To specifically address your question, putting ROTC down on your resume would be fine, but don't try to equate it to real military service. At most its military career exploration. If you go active duty, you can probably limit your other undergrad activities. I think AD military is an attractive soft factor (one of maybe a handful). ROTC is worthless if it is used as anything other than an avenue to a commission.

Good luck.

I'll assume you didn't read my second post.

I never said ROTC = the military. I see the thread title/question was misleading, so read it as ROTC --> military instead of ROTC/military, if need be. I initially included ROTC to point out that I'm still in undergrad, but I see that only made things confusing.

What do you mean by "hedging on military service?" Makes it sound as if I have TTT numbers (at least not yet) and am relying on military service to save my ass, and that's certainly not the case.

[blsnared]

Do you think NG/Reserves give any soft boost? I would imagine it has to count for something. I'm an officer in the National Guard. I'm not on/nor ever was (other than brief periods lasting no longer than 5 months, non-deployment) on active duty.

[MarineLaw]

Asking as an enlisted troop...you specifically stated officers did well...did you specifically mean to separate officer performance from enlisted performance at OCI?

As I read that question it reads somewhat dickish so I wasn't to clarify that I'm asking that with the genuine intent of knowing whether officers perform better than enlisted in OCI

@FairchildFLT

Honestly, the statement was 100% anecdotal, I don't know any prior enlisted that have done exceptionally well, but I would not attribute it to officer/enlisted status and I also don't think the sample size is big enough to mean anything. I think what helps is the immediacy and extent of the leadership experience that officers get right off the bat as lieutenants. I think a prior enlisted guy's experience could be just as interesting and noteworthy--you just have to sell it right.

Good luck!

[MarineLaw]

I think if you are having a hard time trying to decide whether to lead as an officer or go to law school, you should go to law school. We don't need people who are half-heartedly joining as officers.

Also--you would have to serve your entire ROTC obligation before you start qualifying for the G.I. bill. If its a 4-year commitment for a 2-year scholarship, that means 7 years of active duty before you qualify for full 9/11 G.I. Bill + Yellow Ribbon benefits. If that's news to you, check out the G.I. Bill webpage.

I'm not trying to be disparaging, but potentially leading men and women into combat is a much higher calling than being an attorney. If you are having a hard time deciding between the two, that means you're heart isn't 100% into leading as an officer. I can't speak for the rest of America but I wouldn't want you leading my son or daughter if your heart wasn't in it 100%. Just some food for thought. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[sodomojo]

Also--you would have to serve your entire ROTC obligation before you start qualifying for the G.I. bill. If its a 4-year commitment for a 2-year scholarship, that means 7 years of active duty before you qualify for full 9/11 G.I. Bill + Yellow Ribbon benefits. If that's news to you, check out the G.I. Bill webpage.

Got it, thanks for clarifying.

If you are having a hard time deciding between the two, that means you're heart isn't 100% into leading as an officer.

You're putting words into my mouth again. Where ever did I ask which route to take between military service and law school? My one and only question was if acquiring work/internship experience would still be necessary given the hypothetical scenario I presented. The reason for this is because if it's not necessary, then I could choose not to devote time out of academics and everything else that college life brings in order to work/intern (I recognize malleus discentium's point, duly noted). It does not imply hesitancy on my part over service. I appreciate your apparent good faith, but I do have a hard time seeing how your judgment of my commitment as "halfhearted" based upon a couple sentences of an unrelated matter could be anything but disparaging. Since when was commitment to academic excellence and commitment to another field such as military service mutually exclusive?

[SemperLegal]

ROTC is not the military. I would figure out what you want to do in life right after graduation: the military or law school. ROTC as a soft just does not matter. Real military service does. All of the former military officers at my school have done really well at OCI (and historically do very well). However, they served first. Law school was a subsequent goal, or was at least a subordinate goal while they served.

The fact that you are hedging on military service shows you probably don't need to be an officer trying to lead and motivate others to serve. Sounds like you are more invested in doing law school--go do that.

To specifically address your question, putting ROTC down on your resume would be fine, but don't try to equate it to real military service. At most its military career exploration. If you go active duty, you can probably limit your other undergrad activities. I think AD military is an attractive soft factor (one of maybe a handful). ROTC is worthless if it is used as anything other than an avenue to a commission.

Good luck.

Asking as an enlisted troop...you specifically stated officers did well...did you specifically mean to separate officer performance from enlisted performance at OCI?

As I read that question it reads somewhat dickish so I wasn't to clarify that I'm asking that with the genuine intent of knowing whether officers perform better than enlisted in OCI.

I was enlisted and over-performed.

[FairchildFLT]

Thanks for the feedback other vets!

Sorry for diverting your thread OP.