Pass/Fail courses in Undergrad Forum

[letsgoblue16]

Hello everyone,

I'm a rising junior at the University of Michigan and I'm fairly certain I want to attend law school in the future.

My question regards how taking courses pass/fail is viewed by admissions officers at Top 10/15 law schools.

So far, during my two full years at UMich (plus one half summer session term of 7 credits) I've never taken a course pass/fail and have maintained a 3.95 overall GPA. I'm an Economics and Poly Sci double major, and, as of now, a French minor.

My minor crisis at the moment involves the latter subject; I'm currently in the middle of a 7 week study abroad program in France. Although I love the country, the language immersion and my host family, I've found the common "studying abroad is academically easy" narrative to be completely false. I'm taking 8 credits here; one 3 credit class with a Michigan professor who traveled with us from Ann Arbor (and only other Michigan students) and 5 credits of classes taught by French professors with classes of students from around the world. The Michigan class is fine, but the French classes are stressing me out enormously.

Not sure if anyone is familiar with the French grading system, but grades are given as numbers out of 20. However, it's not like the US system where in college typically the top 20% of the class receive As. Essentially, 18s, 19s, and 20s are only given out by teachers on a once a year or LESS basis; the average is a 10/20 and 13-15 is viewed as a strong grade. However, UMich has an insanely stupid method of converting the French grades into our GPA; to receive an A you must get a 17 and a 15/16 for an A-. The specific classes we are taking were also determined by placement tests administered here in France and I was right on the cusp between two levels but ended up being placed into the higher of the two(once I realized this grading problem I asked to be moved down but my professor refused to give me permission because he thought I was learning a lot/in the right class, although he definitely doesn't understand American grading and or law school applications lol), which essentially is the class for kids who are a 4 week vacation in France away from fluent(aka the northern Belgians in my class who are from a tiny country where studying French is mandatory and it's an official language), which I do not consider myself. Therefore, although I'm working my butt off the chance I'd receive an A is approximately -8%, and an A- would be highly unlikely. I think a B+ is feasible but only if I slave away studying. I'd say a B (13/20) is most likely although a B-/C+/C wouldn't be out of the question either. The French system also gives very few progress updates before final grades so I can't tell where exactly I'm at now.

The biggest reason I came to France was for the experience and to improve my language but I never thought I could ruin my GPA here. Therefore, I'm seriously considering taking the 5 credits of French university classes pass/fail. This would allow me to spend more time enjoying France/learning from a non academic standpoint as well as keep my GPA steady. However, I'm worried that this would potentially harm my prospects at a top 10 law school. The other negative is that I wouldn't be able to minor in French anymore (at UM we can't count pass/fail courses towards majors or minors and without these 5 given my double major I wouldn't have be able to graduate on time if I stayed with a French minor) although I would then minor in Applied Statistics instead (I was already unsure between the two minors anyways; if I stopped taking French I'd remain in French club/brushing up on the language on my own time). Although 5 credits isn't very much, this would show up as three classes on my transcript because two of the classes are 1 credit.

So, to be brief: put a few pass/fails on my transcript but have more time and less stress to enjoy France or tough it out and potentially drop my GPA.

Just looking for any/all input! Thanks for reading!!!

[Mista Bojangles]

Are you kidding me - I took a third of my credits pass/fail in college and ended up at HLS. Calculated GPA is all that matters. This is a non-question, take the classes pass/fail, protect your GPA, and have an amazing time in France

[bombaysippin]

Are you kidding me - I took a third of my credits pass/fail in college and ended up at HLS. Calculated GPA is all that matters. This is a non-question, take the classes pass/fail, protect your GPA, and have an amazing time in France

yup

[JamMasterJ]

You should check - I don't think LSAC will even give a fuck about those grades. Call them

[Ti Malice]

You should check - I don't think LSAC will even give a fuck about those grades. Call them

They will care because UMich awards its own grades for the classes. For study abroad programs not run through an American university -- where only the credit transfers -- LSAC does not care about the unconverted foreign grade.

Anyway, switch them to P/F, OP. This won't hurt you at all.

[letsgoblue16]

Whoops now I feel kinda dumb but thanks for the help! Also, I'm brand new on this site, I'm assuming HLS is Harvard lol? With regards to the last poster, you're correct; I'll have these classes on my normal UMich transcript with normal UMich converted grades.

[heythatslife]

If switching to pass/fail can protect your GPA, then do that. Your GPA should be your primary concern if you want law school. And frankly, nobody gives a damn in real life whether you did French as a minor, as long as you can speak the language.

And yes, HLS is Harvard.

[letsgoblue16]

"Former Assistant Dean of Admissions Toby Stock in the JD Admissions Blog entry of February 8, 2008, noted that taking undergraduate classes as Pass/Fail rather than for traditional grades hurts one's application. Presumably, this applies only to classes for which grades are an option." I just read this on the Harvard Law School wiki for TLS...now I'm having second thoughts. And I have only about 24 hours before the deadline to elect the pass/fail option.

[Yea All Right]

"Former Assistant Dean of Admissions Toby Stock in the JD Admissions Blog entry of February 8, 2008, noted that taking undergraduate classes as Pass/Fail rather than for traditional grades hurts one's application. Presumably, this applies only to classes for which grades are an option." I just read this on the Harvard Law School wiki for TLS...now I'm having second thoughts. And I have only about 24 hours before the deadline to elect the pass/fail option.

Sure, taking P/F courses may bring your application down by say 1 point (arbitrary unit), but having a stellar GPA improves your application by 10 points. So it's much better value-wise to protect your GPA. Plus in your specific case you would just P/F a few study abroad courses, which should not reflect badly on your overall body of academic coursework.

[LochnerMonster]

Are you kidding me - I took a third of my credits pass/fail in college and ended up at HLS. Calculated GPA is all that matters. This is a non-question, take the classes pass/fail, protect your GPA, and have an amazing time in France

+1.

I think I had two or three Pass/Fail courses on my transcript, and I got into Yale, Harvard, and Stanford. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[RZ5646]

Conventional wisdom is that nobody cares unless you do something crazy like take like all your upper level major classes P/F