HELP! UCI Irvine or big scholarship at Chapman? Forum

amal84 · Post by **amal84** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:04 pm

I thought I had my decision made on what law school to attend but last minute doubts are making me unsure. I was going to go with UCI with a scholarship of $15,000/year. However, my 90% scholarship at Chapman hasn't left my mind. Just some facts, I am a single parent living in Newport Beach, so both schools are easily accessible and would allow me to not have to move. I was also offered $32,000/year at Loyola and $27,000/year at USD. Obviously, job prospects after graduation are important, but I'm not reaching for the big firm with crazy amount of billing hours and I plan on working in Orange County. Big loans scare me a little, but if the school is worth it I can overlook that....just not sure if UCI is worth it??? Any input and advice would be great!

Paul Campos · Post by **Paul Campos** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:10 pm

(1) What's your current sources of income?

(2) What are your current annual living expenses?

(3) What kind of lawyer do you want to be, in more specific terms than "not big law?"

amal84 · Post by **amal84** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:16 pm

Paul Campos wrote:(1) What's your current sources of income?

(2) What are your current annual living expenses?

(3) What kind of lawyer do you want to be, in more specific terms than "not big law?"

I have been working in special education for almost 9 years as a behavioral interventionist for autistic and at risk children. I also work part time at a restaurant. I don't plan to work during the first year, so I plan on taking out some loans and living off of savings. My heart is geared toward civil rights law, hoping to have an emphasis on special education for children and adults.

transferror · Post by **transferror** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:19 pm

Definitely forget Chapman. For the love of God, do not attend Chapman.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chapman

UC-Irvine's numbers are outstanding, but the school is volatile. However, the chances of UC-Irvine going belly-up are low, and the odds of Chapman's employment stats rising dramatically before you graduate are even lower.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=irvine

amal84 · Post by **amal84** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:25 pm

transferror wrote:Definitely forget Chapman. For the love of God, do not attend Chapman.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chapman

UC-Irvine's numbers are outstanding, but the school is volatile. However, the chances of UC-Irvine going belly-up are low, and the odds of Chapman's employment stats rising dramatically before you graduate are even lower.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=irvine

That bad??? What about USD or Loyola? Moving with a nine year old will not be easy...but if UCI isn't worth the greater amount of loan debt I'm wondering if I should accept one of those. It's bitter sweet I also got into Emory, but moving out of state with just my daughter and I with zero support system, and full tuition costs seems too much of a risk.

xJD2017x · Post by **xJD2017x** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:25 pm

transferror wrote:Definitely forget Chapman. For the love of God, do not attend Chapman.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chapman

UC-Irvine's numbers are outstanding, but the school is volatile. However, the chances of UC-Irvine going belly-up are low, and the odds of Chapman's employment stats rising dramatically before you graduate are even lower.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=irvine

You might to want to load up UCI's 2013 numbers, they are a LOT worse than 2012.

whereskyle · Post by **whereskyle** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:04 pm

Standard TLS advice is for people with little to no work experience. Since OP has years of experience in a field directly related to her interest in law, perhaps OP has connections that could lead to a legal job in this field. Is this true, OP? The problem with Chapman is that we have no reason to expect that they will connect you to gainful employment in the field of your interest. A law degree is one thing, but the hustling to get yourself a job is not something that law schools do for you. If you know someone, who can get you a legal job, then go to any school you want to. Otherwise, you need to confirm more solidly that Chapman can get you a job in education law.

amal84 · Post by **amal84** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:23 pm

whereskyle wrote:Standard TLS advice is for people with little to no work experience. Since OP has years of experience in a field directly related to her interest in law, perhaps OP has connections that could lead to a legal job in this field. Is this true, OP? The problem with Chapman is that we have no reason to expect that they will connect you to gainful employment in the field of your interest. A law degree is one thing, but the hustling to get yourself a job is not something that law schools do for you. If you know someone, who can get you a legal job, then go to any school you want to. Otherwise, you need to confirm more solidly that Chapman can get you a job in education law.

Not true, having contacts in the world of special education is one thing...the legal field of it is another. Not only is special education law fairly new, being a behavioral interventionist for years has afforded me the opportunity to be exposed to the needs of the families, but not the attorneys who can help them. Sure, I have personal references from former clients, but I will have to hustle for a job just like everyone else. What I am more concerned about is if the loan debt is worth it by going to UCI. Chapman is not a high ranked school, but I will be staying in Orange County. Also, since UCI is a small school and new so they are working for their numbers to stay high, do I have a better chance of finding a job that fits into what I want to. I plan to work hard...I just want the best results that a school can afford me.

amal84 · Post by **amal84** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:27 pm

whereskyle wrote:Standard TLS advice is for people with little to no work experience. Since OP has years of experience in a field directly related to her interest in law, perhaps OP has connections that could lead to a legal job in this field. Is this true, OP? The problem with Chapman is that we have no reason to expect that they will connect you to gainful employment in the field of your interest. A law degree is one thing, but the hustling to get yourself a job is not something that law schools do for you. If you know someone, who can get you a legal job, then go to any school you want to. Otherwise, you need to confirm more solidly that Chapman can get you a job in education law.

Also...I assumed TLS was for advice on law school applications and also choosing the right school? Not sure what work experience has to do with your comment? Unless I'm misguided...

NYC2012 · Post by **NYC2012** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:29 pm

whereskyle · Post by **whereskyle** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:38 pm

amal84 wrote:
whereskyle wrote:Standard TLS advice is for people with little to no work experience. Since OP has years of experience in a field directly related to her interest in law, perhaps OP has connections that could lead to a legal job in this field. Is this true, OP? The problem with Chapman is that we have no reason to expect that they will connect you to gainful employment in the field of your interest. A law degree is one thing, but the hustling to get yourself a job is not something that law schools do for you. If you know someone, who can get you a legal job, then go to any school you want to. Otherwise, you need to confirm more solidly that Chapman can get you a job in education law.

Also...I assumed TLS was for advice on law school applications and also choosing the right school? Not sure what work experience has to do with your comment? Unless I'm misguided...

If someone knows that they have a desirable job lined up after law school, then that someone can go to whichever law school they desire. That was the purpose of my post. I did not assume that OP's connections in special ed qualified as legal connections. Hence, the inquiry. I asked if OP has connections to people in the legal field.

yeslekkkk · Post by **yeslekkkk** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:44 pm

Since you live in Orange County, I would go visit with both schools and talk to their career office. Ask them hard questions. See how their responses are. You'll get a feeling about who might be a better fit.

HOWEVER, I think your best move would be to go to UCI... USD- maybe. Loyola- no.

amal84 · Post by **amal84** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:51 pm

yeslekkkk wrote:Since you live in Orange County, I would go visit with both schools and talk to their career office. Ask them hard questions. See how their responses are. You'll get a feeling about who might be a better fit.

HOWEVER, I think your best move would be to go to UCI... USD- maybe. Loyola- no.

Great idea, thanks! I've been to UCI and they had great answers. Even got to meet the Dean and was told as a student I could start my own pro-bono project for my desired field. Chapman, I haven't been to so I will set that up this week.

cron1834 · Post by **cron1834** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:45 pm

transferror wrote:Definitely forget Chapman. For the love of God, do not attend Chapman.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chapman

UC-Irvine's numbers are outstanding, but the school is volatile. However, the chances of UC-Irvine going belly-up are low, and the odds of Chapman's employment stats rising dramatically before you graduate are even lower.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=irvine

Holy hell, I didn't realize that Chapman was such a tire fire. A 158 LSAT median is better than a lot of TTTs, but 33% employed is simply laughable

OP - I'm not sure I would go to law school if these were my options, but UCI is the best choice among them. It seems to be the only one where you'll actually be more likely than not to get a job.

beepboopbeep · Post by **beepboopbeep** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:51 pm

xJD2017x wrote:
transferror wrote:Definitely forget Chapman. For the love of God, do not attend Chapman.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chapman

UC-Irvine's numbers are outstanding, but the school is volatile. However, the chances of UC-Irvine going belly-up are low, and the odds of Chapman's employment stats rising dramatically before you graduate are even lower.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=irvine
You might to want to load up UCI's 2013 numbers, they are a LOT worse than 2012.

For those who were wondering: http://www.law.uci.edu/careers/students ... -2013.html

29% in firms with 100+ or fed clerkships. Still better than Chapman, but yech.

cron1834 · Post by **cron1834** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:05 pm

beepboopbeep wrote:
xJD2017x wrote:
For those who were wondering: http://www.law.uci.edu/careers/students ... -2013.html

29% in firms with 100+ or fed clerkships. Still better than Chapman, but yech.

Interesting to read these, thanks. Given that OP doesn't want Biglaw, I'd be more worried about the overall lawyer-employed #s, which come to about 67%. Still, that's miles ahead of the other schools mentioned. If UCI would be amenable to negotiating over a June retake, that's my choice here (well, after "none of the above").

transferror · Post by **transferror** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:09 pm

xJD2017x wrote:
transferror wrote:Definitely forget Chapman. For the love of God, do not attend Chapman.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chapman

UC-Irvine's numbers are outstanding, but the school is volatile. However, the chances of UC-Irvine going belly-up are low, and the odds of Chapman's employment stats rising dramatically before you graduate are even lower.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=irvine
You might to want to load up UCI's 2013 numbers, they are a LOT worse than 2012.

Wow, I had not even looked. Good call. Although, 5 COA clerkships and 7 D Ct. clerkships is pretty sexy for a class of 85. The stats were worse than 2012, but you're still looking at 32% (27/84) for firms (500+) and Fed Clerkships. That's strong, and worlds ahead of the other options.

EDIT: acknowledge that OP doesn't want biglaw, but biglaw + Art III clerkships is generally a good way to gauge a school's prestige/reputation. Generally, if those options are available, so is other work.

amal84 · Post by **amal84** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:17 pm

cron1834 wrote:
transferror wrote:Definitely forget Chapman. For the love of God, do not attend Chapman.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chapman

UC-Irvine's numbers are outstanding, but the school is volatile. However, the chances of UC-Irvine going belly-up are low, and the odds of Chapman's employment stats rising dramatically before you graduate are even lower.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=irvine
Holy hell, I didn't realize that Chapman was such a tire fire. A 158 LSAT median is better than a lot of TTTs, but 33% employed is simply laughable

OP - I'm not sure I would go to law school if these were my options, but UCI is the best choice among them. It seems to be the only one where you'll actually be more likely than not to get a job.

Are these options that bad? I was accepted at Emory but it's no longer an option for me to move to Atlanta. Sheesh now I'm a little frightened! Retaking lsat and reapplying is not an option

transferror · Post by **transferror** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:28 pm

Yo

amal84 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
transferror wrote:Definitely forget Chapman. For the love of God, do not attend Chapman.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chapman

UC-Irvine's numbers are outstanding, but the school is volatile. However, the chances of UC-Irvine going belly-up are low, and the odds of Chapman's employment stats rising dramatically before you graduate are even lower.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=irvine
Holy hell, I didn't realize that Chapman was such a tire fire. A 158 LSAT median is better than a lot of TTTs, but 33% employed is simply laughable

OP - I'm not sure I would go to law school if these were my options, but UCI is the best choice among them. It seems to be the only one where you'll actually be more likely than not to get a job.

Are these options that bad? I was accepted at Emory but it's no longer an option for me to move to Atlanta. Sheesh now I'm a little frightened! Retaking lsat and reapplying is not an option

You'll be fine. Go to UC-I, enjoy a small class size, personalized experience, and decent prospects. You're not in a bad spot, but you need to be ready to grind for 3 years. Don't be frightened, but be informed when you start and realistic about what you'll have to do to make it work.

BentleyLittle · Post by **BentleyLittle** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:28 pm

beepboopbeep wrote:
xJD2017x wrote:
transferror wrote:Definitely forget Chapman. For the love of God, do not attend Chapman.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=chapman

UC-Irvine's numbers are outstanding, but the school is volatile. However, the chances of UC-Irvine going belly-up are low, and the odds of Chapman's employment stats rising dramatically before you graduate are even lower.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=irvine
You might to want to load up UCI's 2013 numbers, they are a LOT worse than 2012.
For those who were wondering: http://www.law.uci.edu/careers/students ... -2013.html

29% in firms with 100+ or fed clerkships. Still better than Chapman, but yech.

Still better numbers than well regarded regionals like BU and UIUC. Whether those numbers are sustainable with increasing class sizes in upcoming years is debatable but I think it's a respectable showing all things considered. Money and debt aversion become the key issues for OP in selecting UCI.

cron1834 · Post by **cron1834** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:01 am

33% lawyer-employment (Chapman) is just abysmal. That number defeats the purpose of attending law school. I wouldn't go there for free - you'd have to actually pay me a legit salary (plus tuition, obvs) to compensate for the 2-in-3 chance of not becoming an actual lawyer 9 months after graduation. UCI may have dropped off as Chem ran out of favors, but at least you're more likely to be a lawyer than a not-lawyer.

Sgt Brody. · Post by **Sgt Brody.** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:44 am

OP, I am honestly inspired by you, and hope I can be like you. Coming back to the topic, can u try to negotiate more money from UCI, merit aid/need based or something. Even 5 or 10k more year will be helpful. Im rooting for you OP! and good luck!.

amal84 · Post by **amal84** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:14 am

Sgt Brody. wrote:OP, I am honestly inspired by you, and hope I can be like you. Coming back to the topic, can u try to negotiate more money from UCI, merit aid/need based or something. Even 5 or 10k more year will be helpful. Im rooting for you OP! and good luck!.

Thanks Sgt! I sent an e-mail to the dean of admissions a few days ago asking for more aid, so wish me luck

Sgt Brody. · Post by **Sgt Brody.** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:19 am

amal84 wrote:
Sgt Brody. wrote:OP, I am honestly inspired by you, and hope I can be like you. Coming back to the topic, can u try to negotiate more money from UCI, merit aid/need based or something. Even 5 or 10k more year will be helpful. Im rooting for you OP! and good luck!.

Thanks Sgt! I sent an e-mail to the dean of admissions a few days ago asking for more aid, so wish me luck

I think you will get it. Good luck!

6lehderjets · Post by **6lehderjets** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:29 am

I don't think UCI is as clear cut as others may think. Given your scholarship, you'd be walking out of UCI with 100K+ in debt. That's steep given your public interest goals. I think Loyola at 50K is manageable. Granted, it would be harder to get back to OC from Loyola than UCI. But IMO, that OC boost UCI gives you isn't worth 50K.

Chapman for almost free may be tempting but given their numbers do your due diligence and go in with your eyes wide open.

By the way, any stipulations on the scholarships?

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