Building a list of law schools Forum

[aegor]

I am interested in applying to law schools, and I need help building a reasonable list of law schools.

Stats:
GPA: 3.81 from Princeton (Phi Beta Kappa, magna cum laude in Classics) -- a bit low for some of the top law schools, but the pre-law adviser assured me that this GPA would not keep me out of any schools given Princeton's average grades. There is also an upward trend (GPA after freshman year is 3.9+).
LSAT: Taking in June. Just started studying. After 5 PTs, I have improved from 173 (initial) to 176. I expect that number to improve between now and June

I have been doing research on the profiles of law schools, but I need help refining a list. Going through the Tier 1 schools on this website has been helpful, but I do not have the time/resources to visit them, nor are all of the profiles as complete as others (Compare Duke to Yale, for example). I have no sense, for example, of how many law schools I should apply to. Should I plan on applying to five? Fifteen? What should the reach/target/safety ratio? Are there any other sources of information that you would recommend to me as I am looking into certain schools more closely?

One consideration for me is investment of time and money. I am not quite sure what type of law I want to practice or how I intend to use my law degree, so I do not want to attend a school that would not keep all my doors open, even if I were offered a full ride. I also do not want to spend $200k+ on a school that will provide a meager return on investment.

In terms of post-LS options, the fields of international law, science and law, and history/theory of law are of most interest to me. I will be unlikely to choose a law school simply because it has strong programs in those fields, however. I do not have a real problem with a competitive or rigorous environment (the latter being crucial, in fact), but I would very much like to attend a law school where students care about others and desire to do some good with their law degree, as this is my own motivation for attending law school and something I care about deeply.

Finally, I do not know where I want to live (having lived in many cities and countries throughout my life, I have no strong ties to any one place). Thus I would like to attend a law school that could land me a job in more than just the surrounding area.

Sorry if this is a bit vague or incomplete; I am happy to provide more info as needed. Thank you in advance for any help!

[BigZuck]

Check out lawschooltransparency.com to see the employment statistics of different schools. If you care about geographic mobility, you're basically only looking at the top 14 schools as ranked by US News. Expect to do as well as your numbers say you will, with perhaps a slight bump for going to a prestigious undergrad. A law degree is a super general degree for the most part, don't worry about specialty rankings or things like that. Also if you care about intellectually stimulating fields or quality of education, don't bother with law school. It's basically just a series of hoops to jump through to get a piece of paper that allows you to be a lawyer.

[Big Dog]

only two numbers matter: GPA and LSAT. The former is fine for any law school. But without the latter, you are premature in asking.

Once you have a number, it will then come down to how much you want to spend. For maximum future career flexibility, HYS is the obvious answer. But career flexibility may come with serious debt (which can limit career choices). Thus, not so easy to pay sticker if a school a few notches down the food chain will throw big money at you.

[notalobbyist]

Just apply to the whole T-14. I would be surprised if you didn't have close to a full-ride option from at least 1 school like Duke or even Columbia, so you can make up your mind about whether you want HYS or the money when it comes down to it.

[BigZuck]

Just apply to the whole T-14. I would be surprised if you didn't have close to a full-ride option from at least 1 school like Duke or even Columbia, so you can make up your mind about whether you want HYS or the money when it comes down to it.

Those schools don't give full rides to people without LSAT scores. Gotta get that first.

[aegor]

Those schools don't give full rides to people without LSAT scores. Gotta get that first.

Thank you; I understand that. It is obviously purely conjectural at this point, but I included it in order to provide some direction to my search. No school would even consider my application with no LSAT score, so that is obviously Step 1. But I am not interested in waiting until June to even start considering my list of schools. Having some sense of what schools would make sense given my criteria (not stats) could make my process easy if my LSAT ends up being too low for any of them. I would rather be prepared. So I appreciate your help, but please stop repeating the need for LSAT scores -- we all know that I need them.

[BigZuck]

Those schools don't give full rides to people without LSAT scores. Gotta get that first.

Thank you; I understand that. It is obviously purely conjectural at this point, but I included it in order to provide some direction to my search. No school would even consider my application with no LSAT score, so that is obviously Step 1. But I am not interested in waiting until June to even start considering my list of schools. Having some sense of what schools would make sense given my criteria (not stats) could make my process easy if my LSAT ends up being too low for any of them. I would rather be prepared. So I appreciate your help, but please stop repeating the need for LSAT scores -- we all know that I need them.

The path to law school is paved with smart kids who didn't score as high as they expected on the LSAT. I think it was presumptive of the other poster to assume you'll be choosing between HYS and a Hamilton is all.

Check out LST, think about where you want to live, and crush the LSAT. That's really all you can do at this point.

[Nova]

Thus I would like to attend a law school that could land me a job in more than just the surrounding area.

Only blanket the T14 then

[Big Dog]

But I am not interested in waiting until June to even start considering my list of schools.

Without a test score, you really don't have any choice.

Since your criteria is all related to prestige, just start with USNews and match your LSAT score to their list.

[manillabay]

I am interested in applying to law schools, and I need help building a reasonable list of law schools.

Stats:
GPA: 3.81 from Princeton (Phi Beta Kappa, magna cum laude in Classics) -- a bit low for some of the top law schools, but the pre-law adviser assured me that this GPA would not keep me out of any schools given Princeton's average grades. There is also an upward trend (GPA after freshman year is 3.9+).
LSAT: Taking in June. Just started studying. After 5 PTs, I have improved from 173 (initial) to 176. I expect that number to improve between now and June

I have been doing research on the profiles of law schools, but I need help refining a list. Going through the Tier 1 schools on this website has been helpful, but I do not have the time/resources to visit them, nor are all of the profiles as complete as others (Compare Duke to Yale, for example). I have no sense, for example, of how many law schools I should apply to. Should I plan on applying to five? Fifteen? What should the reach/target/safety ratio? Are there any other sources of information that you would recommend to me as I am looking into certain schools more closely?

One consideration for me is investment of time and money. I am not quite sure what type of law I want to practice or how I intend to use my law degree, so I do not want to attend a school that would not keep all my doors open, even if I were offered a full ride. I also do not want to spend $200k+ on a school that will provide a meager return on investment.

In terms of post-LS options, the fields of international law, science and law, and history/theory of law are of most interest to me. I will be unlikely to choose a law school simply because it has strong programs in those fields, however. I do not have a real problem with a competitive or rigorous environment (the latter being crucial, in fact), but I would very much like to attend a law school where students care about others and desire to do some good with their law degree, as this is my own motivation for attending law school and something I care about deeply.

Finally, I do not know where I want to live (having lived in many cities and countries throughout my life, I have no strong ties to any one place). Thus I would like to attend a law school that could land me a job in more than just the surrounding area.

Sorry if this is a bit vague or incomplete; I am happy to provide more info as needed. Thank you in advance for any help!

You got a 173 on your first LSAT without any prep? Wow. I'm impressed.

[aegor]

Well, PrepTest, but yeah. My strength, sadly, is in taking standardized tests.

Without a test score, you really don't have any choice.

What I meant was that if the schools that met my criteria basically required a minimum LSAT score and I failed to meet it, I would not have to waste any more time. I like to plan ahead and for all possibilities.

[jbagelboy]

If you get a 173+, I suggest applying to the following seven law schools: Columbia, Harvard, NYU, UChicago, UPenn, Stanford, and Yale.

If you only hit 170-172, I'd apply to all the traditional "T14" but Georgetown.

Any lower, I'd suggest retaking given your potential.

Don't spend too much time doing "research" or trying to find the right "fit" ect. right now. You'll have plenty of time to visit schools and make these decisions during your application cycle. Law schools aren't like colleges. You basically just choose the most cost-effective option that provides the best career opportunity match for your goals, with a little wiggle room for geographic/personal preference once you're in a limited range of the first two.

[cotiger]

If you get a 173+, I suggest applying to the following seven law schools: Columbia, Harvard, NYU, UChicago, UPenn, Stanford, and Yale.

If you only hit 170-172, I'd apply to all the traditional "T14" but Georgetown.

Any lower, I'd suggest retaking given your potential.

Don't spend too much time doing "research" or trying to find the right "fit" ect. right now. You'll have plenty of time to visit schools and make these decisions during your application cycle. Law schools aren't like colleges. You basically just choose the most cost-effective option that provides the best career opportunity match for your goals, with a little wiggle room for geographic/personal preference once you're in a limited range of the first two.

So long as they give him fee waivers, I'd say apply to all T14 (minus GULC, and only Berkeley if he would actually go there) even if he gets 173+. It won't cost much, and not doing so needlessly gives away potential negotiation power.

[jbagelboy]

If you get a 173+, I suggest applying to the following seven law schools: Columbia, Harvard, NYU, UChicago, UPenn, Stanford, and Yale.

If you only hit 170-172, I'd apply to all the traditional "T14" but Georgetown.

Any lower, I'd suggest retaking given your potential.

Don't spend too much time doing "research" or trying to find the right "fit" ect. right now. You'll have plenty of time to visit schools and make these decisions during your application cycle. Law schools aren't like colleges. You basically just choose the most cost-effective option that provides the best career opportunity match for your goals, with a little wiggle room for geographic/personal preference once you're in a limited range of the first two.

So long as they give him fee waivers, I'd say apply to all T14 (minus GULC, and only Berkeley if he would actually go there) even if he gets 173+. It won't cost much, and not doing so needlessly gives away potential negotiation power.

Yea, you're probably right on the safe side, but 3.81/173+ from Princeton will get either a Levy, Ruby, Vanderbilt, or Hamilton scholarship which basically ends the negotiations aid-wise. The decision would fall to one or two of HYS v $$$ as it so often does.

Anyway, yea, either way is fine it's just an issue or more or less paperwork. Make sure you register with CRS.

[Jesse1983]

I am interested in applying to law schools, and I need help building a reasonable list of law schools.

Stats:
GPA: 3.81 from Princeton (Phi Beta Kappa, magna cum laude in Classics) -- a bit low for some of the top law schools, but the pre-law adviser assured me that this GPA would not keep me out of any schools given Princeton's average grades. There is also an upward trend (GPA after freshman year is 3.9+).
LSAT: Taking in June. Just started studying. After 5 PTs, I have improved from 173 (initial) to 176. I expect that number to improve between now and June

I have been doing research on the profiles of law schools, but I need help refining a list. Going through the Tier 1 schools on this website has been helpful, but I do not have the time/resources to visit them, nor are all of the profiles as complete as others (Compare Duke to Yale, for example). I have no sense, for example, of how many law schools I should apply to. Should I plan on applying to five? Fifteen? What should the reach/target/safety ratio? Are there any other sources of information that you would recommend to me as I am looking into certain schools more closely?

One consideration for me is investment of time and money. I am not quite sure what type of law I want to practice or how I intend to use my law degree, so I do not want to attend a school that would not keep all my doors open, even if I were offered a full ride. I also do not want to spend $200k+ on a school that will provide a meager return on investment.

In terms of post-LS options, the fields of international law, science and law, and history/theory of law are of most interest to me. I will be unlikely to choose a law school simply because it has strong programs in those fields, however. I do not have a real problem with a competitive or rigorous environment (the latter being crucial, in fact), but I would very much like to attend a law school where students care about others and desire to do some good with their law degree, as this is my own motivation for attending law school and something I care about deeply.

Finally, I do not know where I want to live (having lived in many cities and countries throughout my life, I have no strong ties to any one place). Thus I would like to attend a law school that could land me a job in more than just the surrounding area.

Sorry if this is a bit vague or incomplete; I am happy to provide more info as needed. Thank you in advance for any help!

I think the real question you need to ask yourself is if you even want to be a practicing lawyer? If you're only thinking of attending law school because you don't know what else to do with you're "classics" A.B. then I think you need to think very seriously if law is the right career for you. Just my two cents.

[JuanitaFromTheDiner]

If you get a 173+, I suggest applying to the following seven law schools: Columbia, Harvard, NYU, UChicago, UPenn, Stanford, and Yale.

If you only hit 170-172, I'd apply to all the traditional "T14" but Georgetown.

Any lower, I'd suggest retaking given your potential.

Don't spend too much time doing "research" or trying to find the right "fit" ect. right now. You'll have plenty of time to visit schools and make these decisions during your application cycle. Law schools aren't like colleges. You basically just choose the most cost-effective option that provides the best career opportunity match for your goals, with a little wiggle room for geographic/personal preference once you're in a limited range of the first two.

So long as they give him fee waivers, I'd say apply to all T14 (minus GULC, and only Berkeley if he would actually go there) even if he gets 173+. It won't cost much, and not doing so needlessly gives away potential negotiation power.

First-time poster, studying for the June LSATs [TLS forums obviously count...], and still learning about the admissions game - just curious, why all T14 and not GULC?

[izha]

If you get a 173+, I suggest applying to the following seven law schools: Columbia, Harvard, NYU, UChicago, UPenn, Stanford, and Yale.

If you only hit 170-172, I'd apply to all the traditional "T14" but Georgetown.

Any lower, I'd suggest retaking given your potential.

Don't spend too much time doing "research" or trying to find the right "fit" ect. right now. You'll have plenty of time to visit schools and make these decisions during your application cycle. Law schools aren't like colleges. You basically just choose the most cost-effective option that provides the best career opportunity match for your goals, with a little wiggle room for geographic/personal preference once you're in a limited range of the first two.

So long as they give him fee waivers, I'd say apply to all T14 (minus GULC, and only Berkeley if he would actually go there) even if he gets 173+. It won't cost much, and not doing so needlessly gives away potential negotiation power.

Yea, you're probably right on the safe side, but 3.81/173+ from Princeton will get either a Levy, Ruby, Vanderbilt, or Hamilton scholarship which basically ends the negotiations aid-wise. The decision would fall to one or two of HYS v $$$ as it so often does.

Anyway, yea, either way is fine it's just an issue or more or less paperwork. Make sure you register with CRS.

Very optimistic. The only school that definitely gives Ruby/Hamilton for 3.81/173 from Princeton is Princeton Law.

[iskim88]

Your time would be better spent studying for the LSAT than to post a thread such as this one.
TLS is very much useful for the LSAT prep. Read through stuff people have done to get a 180. PTs in your range does not guarantee you will actually get that score on the test day. Study hard and come back with a score in July. You won't be late at all to decide which schools to apply to at that point.

[cotiger]

First-time poster, studying for the June LSATs [TLS forums obviously count...], and still learning about the admissions game - just curious, why all T14 and not GULC?

Employment not very good compared to the rest of the T14, so OP's not going to go there. And they tend to be stingy with aid, and it's difficult to wrangle it out of them, so they're not very useful for negotiation.

[BigZuck]

First-time poster, studying for the June LSATs [TLS forums obviously count...], and still learning about the admissions game - just curious, why all T14 and not GULC?

Employment not very good compared to the rest of the T14, so OP's not going to go there. And they tend to be stingy with aid, and it's difficult to wrangle it out of them, so they're not very useful for negotiation.

Can confirm GULC is kind of a waste of a law school that needs never be a consideration for the vast majority of applicants.